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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 01:25:28
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I was just looking through Dragons of Faerun and found an NPC with levels of the Favoured Soul class from Complete Divine, this I believe is the first time Ive seen an FR NPC stated with a class outside of the PHB
So which of the expanded classes are now officially present in the Realms?
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Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 06:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I was just looking through Dragons of Faerun and found an NPC with levels of the Favoured Soul class from Complete Divine, this I believe is the first time Ive seen an FR NPC stated with a class outside of the PHB
So which of the expanded classes are now officially present in the Realms?
I'd have to do a complete search through all of the 3.5 material, but I can't recall any others. I did write a quote for a warlock in the magic items section, but people who don't want warlocks in their games can just interpret as a [dark] male sorcerer or wizard. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 06:27:10
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Yeah I cant recall anything outside that Favoured Soul in DoF
A FRC style class write up for those expanded classes that are found in the Realms (Not all of them are but I could see a places for the Knight and Warmage classes in the realms )would be a good article for the WOTC site |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2006 : 22:12:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Yeah I cant recall anything outside that Favoured Soul in DoF
A FRC style class write up for those expanded classes that are found in the Realms (Not all of them are but I could see a places for the Knight and Warmage classes in the realms )would be a good article for the WOTC site
Hmm... I'll look into that. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2006 : 00:47:55
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| Favoured Souls could actually revive the old Speciality Priest vs regular priest division that Eric put in 2ed Gods books...... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kaewin
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 13:58:51
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| Hi I'm new so bare with me. I wasn't really keen on the new classes from the complete series and would really hate to see them used. On the other hand I would like to see the psionic classes get some use. |
Magic is not for Parlor Tricks. ~Sparrow Moros, Second Degree Master |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 02:20:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaewin
Hi I'm new so bare with me. I wasn't really keen on the new classes from the complete series and would really hate to see them used. On the other hand I would like to see the psionic classes get some use.
That's the unfortunate problem we have when so many people want so many different things. While I do like as many options as possible, I'd imagine that many people don't want any more psionics in the Realms. Most of the complete classes are just new forms of fighting or magic. They rarely break the Realms. Psionics, if done improperly, could, though I'd personally be fine if someone did it with care. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 02:47:31
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Just to toss in an opinion here...
I am of the camp that there's really no need to include new classes in 'canon' FR lore. We can add them if we want them; and personally, the only things that I would add with any regularity are the non-magic using classes, since magic is much more idiosyncratic to a world then how you swing a sword. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 02:58:56
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Just to toss in an opinion here...
I am of the camp that there's really no need to include new classes in 'canon' FR lore. We can add them if we want them; and personally, the only things that I would add with any regularity are the non-magic using classes, since magic is much more idiosyncratic to a world then how you swing a sword.
The War Mage, Knight, Favoured Soul, Noble and the Warlock would fit in the realms without much/or any changes
Its odd that the FR doesnt have a class unique to the setting, Eberron has the Artificer and Dragonlance has the Noble. |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 14:32:08
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| I'd have no difficulty with the Swashbuckler getting included either (not a big surprise to those playing in Kuje's PBeM, I suppose), seeing as both novels and sourcebooks have had their fair share of swashbyckling characters (the Gemcloaks, anyone?) |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 17:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I'd have no difficulty with the Swashbuckler getting included either (not a big surprise to those playing in Kuje's PBeM, I suppose), seeing as both novels and sourcebooks have had their fair share of swashbyckling characters (the Gemcloaks, anyone?)
And I don't think they've been in any novels, but don't forget the Buckleswashers NPC group.  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 17:59:30
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| Actually, I don't see problems with a lot of those add-ons. Warlocks was the one I was iffy on, but I'm warming up to it (and they would be very rare). Spirit shamans? Perfect for Rashemen. Wu Jen, fits well in Shou Lung, and possibly even "elemental" areas like Al-Qadim. Samurai, Shou Lung easily, but the gist of the idea behind it would fit the realms as an honor bound knightly order. Swashbucklers? Of course. Spell Thieves? Yep, there's even canon stories of something akin to it. Scout... fits perfectly. Ninja... I can see them in Thesk with the influx of Shou population, and I could maybe see them in Calimshan as well. Hexblade... well, I don't see a reason why they wouldn't fit in, just I don't see any particular culture that would necessarily embrace the idea behind it (except maybe the half-drow of Dambrath). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2006 : 04:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I am of the camp that there's really no need to include new classes in 'canon' FR lore. We can add them if we want them; <snip>
I'm with Dan here.
I may disagree with which classes to add, but I agree it should be left to the individual DMs. |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2006 : 04:30:07
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I'm in loose agreement with GothicDan and AlacLuin's camp. There shouldn't be a need to fit every core class and PrC into the Realms, but neither should all of them be automatically restricted. Going by a case by case basis is probably best, taking into account the character history, training, culture, and the setting itself.
I like Eytan's way of handling it. Mention a character called a "Warlock" and leave it open to whether it's the D&D class Warlock or just a warlock meaning a male spellcaster.
I do feel that the same approach should be taken towards the non-caster classes as the spellcasters. Though I can see why they would seem easier to fit in since WotC/D&D does not take into account many cultural and ideological differences in swordplay or martial arts. Or if such differences are present, they are not exclusive.
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2006 : 06:59:44
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From a design standpoint, I don’t think it’s a good idea to shoehorn in every class and PrC that comes along by dropping them in to the next Realms sourcebook or novel.
I do think it’s a good idea for designers to do things like dropping hints or suggestions, because this gets player’s and DM’s imaginations going about ‘what might be’ in the Realms. I think outright adding in new classes or PrCs in sourcebooks is a good idea only if the designers give careful thought to lore and how they’ll incorporate new classes into the Realms.
From a strictly play perspective, the same basic, long-standing rule applies that has always applied: If it works in your game and its fun, use it.
For martial classes, I think there’s a lot more room in the Realms for mixing magic and sword-play via classes and PrCs. There are simply too many cultures (living or dead) and forms of magic for such to not have existed in some blended together manner.
I’ll have to pick up the Book of Nine Swords to see what might fit.
J. Grenemyer |
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9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
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Edited by - Sanishiver on 11 Sep 2006 07:00:29 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2006 : 18:53:26
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I'm in the middle ground on this...if a new base class actually enriches the Realms (like the marshal, knight, healer, war mage, favored soul, etc. [notice those were all from the Miniatures book? ]) or logicaly works with a npc (like making Azoun IV who was a cavalier in !E, then a fighter in 2E so now a knight in 3E) then I don't see much problem with it...
but I don't agree with that view that all new published D&D material (especially the new, alternative Core stuff like Incarnium, Tome of Magic, etc.) has to fit in the Realms...especially if you have to ret-con canon to do it...There is already a D&D campaign world that eveything is supposed to have a place...Eberron
I think it is ironic (and am sure other older players have noticed this)...
when the 2E Monstrous Compendium supplements (the loose-leaf binder "monster manual") started to come out for each campaign world, unless otherwise noted, they were not supposed to be used in other campaign worlds...so the Grayhawk Compendium monsters were not supposed to be in the Realms, no Realms monsters in Dragonlance...it was Spelljammer and Planescape that linked all these campaign worlds together so you could mix campaign monsters...
so now in 3E they are trying to isolate the Realms once again but all this extra crunch still has to be added to the Realms (to the point it actually is changing the flavor of the game). If they would ahve actually kept the Realms integrated with the other campaign worlds all this extra crunch would ahve been easier to swallow (both for the designers and the consumers)
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2006 : 19:25:14
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I don't mind integrating new classes so long as the integration makes sense. The biggest problem I have with any of it is making it too games rules dependant. If you stat someone as a scout, I don't think it hurts to much to let someone know you can use ranger or rogue levels if you don't have Complete Adventurer.
The main concern is that you have a major character as something a little "off" such as Warlock or Spelltheives. They star in a novel. If you just describe what they are doing in general terms, I don't think its too big a deal. But when the Warlock character or the Spellthief character starts describing their abilities in depth and specifics.
The problem comes when (and I am not saying this is anytime near, I'm just pointing this out) a new edition comes around, yeah, its likely to have fighters and rogues and the like, but unless spellthieves or warlocks are core classes in future editions, then when the edition first changes, there are no mechanics that match up to the characters, and this can cause some speedbumps.
But overall, I'm not too worried about it. In game terms Azoun was a cavalier, then a fighter, and if he is a knight according to 3.5, it doesn't really cause a problem with the fact that he was a well trained warrior. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 15:16:43
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| Yeah Shou-Lung is home to lots of those oriental classes in the complete books. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 07:06:11
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Yeah I cant recall anything outside that Favoured Soul in DoF
A FRC style class write up for those expanded classes that are found in the Realms (Not all of them are but I could see a places for the Knight and Warmage classes in the realms )would be a good article for the WOTC site
Hmm... I'll look into that.
Well it looks like Eberrons got one so I cant see why they cant have one for the realms...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20060911a
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 14:24:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Well it looks like Eberrons got one so I cant see why they cant have one for the realms...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20060911a
It will be a good Realms article, by the way. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 14:27:09
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| What about the races from the Races of... line of products? Hmm this would need a new scroll. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 14:56:21
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I don't know if I want an article to quantify this. For example, lets take Dargoth's ideas. He is very imaginative and I'm sure it would work great in his campaign, but he has two very interesting ideas that I would not use in my campaign, i.e. Warlocks as spellfire weilders and Favored Souls as a substitute for specialty priests.
I picture Favored Souls as sort of "chosen prophet" types that a given god has a plan for, even if they never got any formal training, but that both favored souls and clerics could eventually become "specialty priest" style PrCs later on in their careers, as they gain prominence in their churches.
I can picture warlocks as people that had no talent for the Art at all, and have to forge an artifical conncection to it, or those that were so impatient at their studdies they would risk their souls to gain power faster. While they might weild magic that is more "raw" its not nearly as elemental as spellfire, in my mind (and campaigns).
Now, throw in that I may have some campaign issues with some new classes, like the duskblade. Nothing to do with balance, but it does what a bladesinger does better, can be started at first level, and as a core class is open to all races not just elves. I'm not thinking I'm going to allow this one just to keep from opening a can of worms.
Now, if we get an article that says X exist here, Y exist here, and quantify the hows of wheres off all of these alternate classes, then I now have a bit more work to do in explaining to my players why I'm not following what has been detailed at WOTC, for example.
I can understand, however, some suggestions on how to use them. Heck, a lot of classes I don't mind and they make perfect sense to me (favored soul is a perfect divine counterpart to sorcerer). I'm just worried that such an article might slip into the "official" too much, and not just skirt around the "this is how it could work."
Oh, and Dargoth, I like your ideas, and I wasn't trying to single anyone out, I just wanted to point out how two different DM might integrate the same class into their campaigns. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 17:01:09
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Yes, Sir. Your point is quite valid.
I think that (my personnal opinion here), regarding new classes, the best approach would be that of guidelines and recomendations, and no that of strict rules. When I spoke about an article, I think of something like the guidelines given to the new races in the Champions of Valor: some suggestions, but nothing too sufocating. This will work, to me.
And I reinforce the flanks of the DMs that will not permit Duskblades for the sake of the Bladesingers.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 17:06:34
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| Is anyone using the Artificer in there Realms Campaign? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2006 : 23:45:01
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
Is anyone using the Artificer in there Realms Campaign?
Ack!!! THis comes up from time to time.
Many people here do not like the Artificer class in the Realms.
I for one do like it, and has allowed it as a choice to play in my games.
I'll also say, noone has actually chosen to play one (don't get to play to often, rarely even)
I don't really want to get into it to much here.
So this is my peice. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 04:42:02
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| Given the Favoured Souls special relationship with their god and the different way they access magic Id allow players who run Planetouched characters or any character thats taken the Celestial attended birth or chosen born regions to run Favoured Souls. Also theres probably quite a few "God children" approaching maturity in the current realms timeline. After all the gods spent almost a year stuck on Toril chances are some of them "Got lucky" and produced some kids. These "God Children" would be good candiates for Favored Souls. You could even take that one step further and say that the people who where possessed by the gods during the ToT where effected by the experience and any children they had after their god left them had a Favored Soul style relation with the deity who possessed their parent.... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 15:16:02
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| The Ronin PrC is good for those oriental classes and I do recall was it Batu Min Ho (sp?) who was one? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 17:21:34
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| IMO I think we have enough with all those FR specific PrC available - Divine Diciple, Cormyr War wizard, Purple Knight, Zhent spy, and many many more. Therefore I see no need for new ones. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 17:38:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Given the Favoured Souls special relationship with their god and the different way they access magic Id allow players who run Planetouched characters or any character thats taken the Celestial attended birth or chosen born regions to run Favoured Souls. Also theres probably quite a few "God children" approaching maturity in the current realms timeline. After all the gods spent almost a year stuck on Toril chances are some of them "Got lucky" and produced some kids. These "God Children" would be good candiates for Favored Souls. You could even take that one step further and say that the people who where possessed by the gods during the ToT where effected by the experience and any children they had after their god left them had a Favored Soul style relation with the deity who possessed their parent....
Those are some good ideas. I like them. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 18:12:22
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And all this talk put my mind to work and give not only an idea for one of the new classes, but a good adventure as a bonus!
The class in question is the Warmage. I´m thinking in a good place to drop then (beyond Cormyr and old Raumathar ), and suddenly, my mind shout: dwarves! Dwarves with armor hurling orbs of insert damaging element here! Wow! That is interesting.
IIRC, it´s in the Lost Empires of Faerűn that appears and old dwarven school of wizardry, in one of their (err... our) old realms of the North. And I think: why not make this a warmage school and academy? And the knowledge about the school have died with the old kingdoms...
Now, in present day, a zealous gold dwarf priest of Moradin receives a vision sended by Moradin, a glorious quest, about the lost knowledge that await in the North, a mission to discover and rescue the old tomes of the warmages! This could be crucial to help the golden to win the war against the gray dwarves. So, the dwarves send a group of merchants (they are in war, and cannot spare any soldier or mercenary) to contract a band of mercenaries (my group) to go to the old ruins, and recover the books.
Now, let´s see if I can do this work! |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2006 : 18:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
IIRC, it´s in the Lost Empires of Faerűn that appears and old dwarven school of wizardry, in one of their (err... our) old realms of the North. And I think: why not make this a warmage school and academy? And the knowledge about the school have died with the old kingdoms...
it is Ammarindar
and I have plans in my project for that place too |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Topic |
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What classes are now officially present in the FR?
