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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 18:57:47
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Well met fellow scribes,
Does anyone remember if there are any official instances of the Princes of Elemental Evil in any Realms products? I know they played a much bigger part in Greyhawk with the whole Temple of Elemental Evil thing, but I was wondering if any older products mentioned any of them.
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 19:44:23
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They are all described in Planescape...the good and evil elemental princes/princesses...the Planscape Monstrous Compendium II or III (can't remember which) had all their 2E stats and a bit of canon about them too..
And the princes actually had very little to do with (or maybe no interaction) the original ToEE...though the evil fire prince was in the 3E "return" module...
In fact I can't remember any pre-3E/"return" link of the elemental princes and Tharizdum (sp?)....the princes were just "mega" elementals that had been "infected" with good or evil (vs the natural neutrality of pure elements) that went around gathering elementals of the life alignment that were also "currupted" or they "infected" elemental themselves
I always thought that the ToEE was about Zuggmuty (sp?)/Iuz using the 4 elements as "camouflage" to hide their own cult...as I never played Grayhawk, I never knew "Elder Elemetal Eye" was actuallt Tharizdum (sp?) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 19:52:17
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I think that the Tharizdun/Elder Elemental Eye thing is a more recent invention that they have been expounding on. Its mentioned pretty extensively in the "Avatars of Elemental Evil" section of the Monster Manual IV.
Personally I'm not thrilled with the Tharizdun/Elder Elemental Eye connection since it messes with the whole question of weather Ghaunadaur has anything to do with the god of the same name, and I liked that ambiguous. I'm not willing to have Ghaunadaur be a "front man" for Tharizdun.
From the Greyhawk perspective, I haven't really liked the increase in activity when it comes to Tharizdun and his mechanations. He was always portrayed as an ancient, banished, patient evil that was beyond the normal "definition" of godly power, essentially an evil overgod, and if he ever returned it would pretty much be the end of everything in Oerth. He was kind of "Lovecraftian" in that way, and the more they quantify him and his plans, the more he seems like just some banished evil god. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 19:57:50
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think that the Tharizdun/Elder Elemental Eye thing is a more recent invention that they have been expounding on. Its mentioned pretty extensively in the "Avatars of Elemental Evil" section of the Monster Manual IV.
Personally I'm not thrilled with the Tharizdun/Elder Elemental Eye connection since it messes with the whole question of weather Ghaunadaur has anything to do with the god of the same name, and I liked that ambiguous. I'm not willing to have Ghaunadaur be a "front man" for Tharizdun.
From the Greyhawk perspective, I haven't really liked the increase in activity when it comes to Tharizdun and his mechanations. He was always portrayed as an ancient, banished, patient evil that was beyond the normal "definition" of godly power, essentially an evil overgod, and if he ever returned it would pretty much be the end of everything in Oerth. He was kind of "Lovecraftian" in that way, and the more they quantify him and his plans, the more he seems like just some banished evil god.
I agree..one of those "gods locked" away ideas...that have been getting more and more active...
I was also confused (still am I guess) with the Ghaunador - Elder Elemental God - Elder Elemental Eye - Tharizdun thing...plus that "Dark God" from the Monster Mythology book too...
and there is also the Erebus (sp?) god that was described in a Dragon magazine a few months back...
and how does (or how can) Shar be linked in relation to those gods.. |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 07:56:40
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| well ... as far as i can read then they are all up in the new Dragon magazine (#347) |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2006 : 20:25:26
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The Elder Elemental God is worshipped at the weird purple temples in several of Gary Gygax's adventures. Its symbol is borne by Lareth in T1 but it isn't mentioned in the published T1-4.
He Who Endeth All is a distinct entity, originally from Rob Kuntz's campaign, featured in WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and Gary's novels. It's also the Dark God described in DMGR4 Monster Mythology. The identification of it with the EEG was invented by Monte Cook.
The Princes of Elemental Evil, from the Fiend Folio, originally had nothing to do with the Temple or either of the two above entities.
Ghaunadaur, first appearing in FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark, is a Realms version of the Elder Elemental God. |
Edited by - Faraer on 27 Aug 2006 20:26:00 |
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TwigB
Acolyte
South Africa
46 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 19:33:00
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| I'm not sure if he is even an evil elemental prince (i think he is), but there is reference to Ogremoch, lord of evil earth creatures in the 3rd edition Underdark book. He is causing some havoc in the ruins of Blingdenstone, corrupting earth creatures. |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2006 : 21:47:14
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Ocremoch is indeed the evil elemental prince of earth. Not really that official but in BG2 throne of Bhaal you get to kick Ogremochs and the evil prince of fire's butt.  |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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Princes of Elemental Evil
