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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 18:20:41
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quote:
I can agree with that, but it really has nothing to do with my orignial post.
It's not addressing your original post, but the post that I quoted. I brought up an analogy I thought quite reasonable (saying that fighters shouldn't just be dumb stereotypes), and you decided to mock me into the erroneous view that the Realms should be historical. I was merely clarifying what I had said.
With that said, I shall let it go. EDIT: It's non-issue, as far as I can see.
quote:
That doesn't make my point invalid. FR's strengths are it's sheer amount of variety. In no way should it be impossible to write a novel centering around a non-magical fighter. It would be quite unique and good (if well-written), considering everyone's predisposition for magic and stunning presige classes.
I am not trying to make your point invalid. I have not said I find your point invalid. In fact, I find your point very much valid.
quote:
Originally posted by wwwwwww
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Everyone has different preferences. I see nothing wrong with exploring different aspects of a class, in a series devoted to that class.
That's EXACTLY my point. It's completely reasonable to have had one book focus on a standard, non-prestige fighter. Thanks Wooly! 
Indeed. And I'm not saying it isn't completely reasonable -- it is. And I'm not trying to argue with you. EDIT: Wooly's right, you're right, and none of these points are mutually exclusive.
I'm just saying that it isn't reasonable to condemn books because they explore things that aren't otherwise mentioned in the Realms because "they're not just standard fighters." If anything, that should be worthy of praise.
I think you're missing the point of the series, which is to present variations on a theme that should be well known to the readership: Fighters.
I appreciate your respect for Gemmell -- a respect that I share. When he died, actually, I posted a rather long blog entry about the event. It was a sad day for fantasy.
Anyway. I think that on that note, I shall end my participation in this scroll.
Thank you.
Cheers
EDIT: I took out a tangential point about the "purpose" of the series, removed a repetitive sentence about "no-frills fighters," and added two sentences. Otherwise, I have left this post as it was. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 17 Aug 2006 18:11:56 |
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wwwwwww
Learned Scribe
116 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 13:39:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm just saying that it isn't reasonable to condemn books because they explore things that aren't otherwise mentioned in the Realms because "they're not just standard fighters."
I just felt the need to express the fact that I NEVER, NOT ONCE "condemned" any book. In my posts, I took extra caution to mention that the classes were unique in their own right. To say that I'm "condemning" the books is simply deriving your own meaning from my words, and that's unfair. |
Edited by - wwwwwww on 16 Aug 2006 14:17:16 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 16:11:51
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Paec_djinn have requested some recommendations about the Fighters series. 
So, going directly to the point of the topic, the serie is awesome. All the four books are excellent in their ways, and you will find a good realms-flavor in all of them.
And, yes, my vote for "the best of Fighters" go to Ghostwalker, too. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 17:10:08
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| Ah, yep, now I remember...and in case I haven't mentioned it before... get Ghostwalker! ... um...NOW! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 04:26:19
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In regards to the whole fantastical PrC thing, I do agree somewhat with what wwww was saying. I do enjoy a gritty, no-nonsense guy who just takes people out and doesn't have any magical powers to assist him. I know that this is the FR and there is magic everywhere, but one book in the series which just details a pure D&D fighter-class guy would be cool. Having said that, I have only read Ghostwalker of the series. From other posts I gather that all the others also possessed some arcane abilities as well.
Just knowing that a guy can wade into a no-magic zone or anti-magic field or whatever and is at no disadvantage is cool. He doesn't have any crutches and only relies on his skills, his physical abilities, and his chosen weapon. Anyway, this is probably off-topic, but I just thought I'd throw in my 2 coppers worth. Peace out. |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 05:07:00
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Well, I wouldn't say Ryder (the Master of Chains) had magical abilities, he just used an unusual fighting style.
I like reading about "plain fighters" and people who don't use magic, myself (though I DO like spellcasters the most)...but it's important to remember that these four protagonists don't necessarily represent all the fighters of the Realms. The novels in the Fighters series are just four stories out of many. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 17 Aug 2006 05:08:04 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 05:14:51
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| True, Rino, but then you get into the, "The WotC novels never seem to portray the norm any more.." thing again. ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 05:41:39
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I think what's important is there are still some "normal" fighters being portrayed in the Realms today. On top of my mind, we've got Ryld, Wulfgar (barbarian and doesn't use swords, but still) and Bruenor(doesn't use swords either, but pretty much a straight out fighter). I don't think that giving them a title role in a novel is very important, IMO.
But then again, it might be interesting if an author HAD wrote a "normal" fighter (as in sword and shield) as the title character and made the character step away from the normal cliches which plague this type of fighters. I'm referring to the mortal Kelemvor in the Avatar trilogy, btw. |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 05:47:14
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And what is "the norm" in a fantasy world?
I'm not complaining about the series anyway. Like I said earlier, I read Ghostwalker and loved it. It was a great character and a well-written book which kept me busy turning pages far later than I should have been. Hopefully though, someone will come out with that gritty, dangerous guy I spoke of earlier who is just a well-rounded "basic" fighter who doesn't fight pretty, he just fights.
Maybe it's like how in Hollywood, a lot of people got into the whole martial-arts-on-wires when Crouching Tiger and The Matrix came out. All of a sudden Jet Li is making those flicks again and they are popular again. Just watching a guy kick butt wasn't exciting if he couldn't do something unbelievable. Anyways, I'm tired and probably not making sense. I probably shouldn't even submit thi |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Lysan Lurraxol
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 18:22:16
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I've only read Ghostwalker and Bladesinger out of this series, but I'll reply anyway.
Ghostwalker is extremely good, very dark, but really well written, Bladesinger is fairly bland though, it reads like a D&D game, OK though, if you like that kind of style. |
http://lysan.livejournal.com
"Come join me in the dark..." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 03:06:52
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
True, Rino, but then you get into the, "The WotC novels never seem to portray the norm any more.." thing again. ;)
I know what you mean. But I do want to point out...
1) Ryder didn't strike me as "invincible" in the fighting scenes. The novel in general is about him being put in chains (literally and metaphorically), and in the end he isn't REALLY the "master of chains". The downer of an ending attests to that.
2) The novels wasn't really that battle-heavy to begin with (which I liked). It was more about people, their relationships, and politics (which I also liked!). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 03:29:00
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quote:
2) The novels wasn't really that battle-heavy to begin with (which I liked). It was more about people, their relationships, and politics (which I also liked!).
This? An excellent thing! :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 03:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
quote:
2) The novels wasn't really that battle-heavy to begin with (which I liked). It was more about people, their relationships, and politics (which I also liked!).
This? An excellent thing! :)
Definitely. I can recommend this novel. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 16:22:09
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My Ghostwalker arrived just two days, and I´m almost in the middle of the book.
Heh, maybe I change my list of the top 5 from the Chosen.
Hmmm... it´s too late to go to the book club?  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 18:07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
My Ghostwalker arrived just two days, and I´m almost in the middle of the book.
Heh, maybe I change my list of the top 5 from the Chosen.
I'm glad you like it, and honored!
quote:
Hmmm... it´s too late to go to the book club?
Absolutely not. As long as the thread's still there, you can comment, and I'll respond heartily. My books never vanish for me. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 18:32:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Absolutely not. As long as the thread's still there, you can comment, and I'll respond heartily. My books never vanish for me.
Cheers
Thanks, Erik. I´ll start my posts next week (under a pile of job here). |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 19:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Thanks, Erik. I´ll start my posts next week
Whatever I can do to clarify things, and provide you a "director's cut" commentary.
quote:
(under a pile of job here).
Oh -- you mean a pile of s. . . GOOD NIGHT, LADIES AND GENTS!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 19:31:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Oh -- you mean a pile of s. . . GOOD NIGHT, LADIES AND GENTS!
Cheers
It´s really a good idea, but actually I´m under a pile of that job.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 18 Aug 2006 19:34:12 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 20:26:22
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'Fighter' is an unusual term in this sense -- I wonder how this series's name sounds to people unfamiliar with D&D.
Interesting that Erik regards the Realms as high-powered; I thought Wizards considered it on par with the current D&D norms. |
Edited by - Faraer on 18 Aug 2006 20:28:53 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 21:37:43
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I guess I'm officially back to this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
'Fighter' is an unusual term in this sense -- I wonder how this series's name sounds to people unfamiliar with D&D.
Yeah, I can see that. Myself, I'd have preferred "Warriors" -- more along the lines of "The Priests." I mean, not all "The Wizards" are wizards (Morgynn is a sorcerer, and there's a distribution in Blackstaff). But hey -- whatev.
quote:
Interesting that Erik regards the Realms as high-powered; I thought Wizards considered it on par with the current D&D norms.
I think when I said that I meant "high power" as in "lots of magic," which is very much consistent with D&D norms. I think different settings vary quite a bit. Dragonlance, for instance, has less magic but is still very much a D&D world. Eberron has as much magic, but it's spread out in lower quantities among more hands (so you don't have a few handfuls of archmagi, but lots of lower-level wizardly folk).
Meh. Different styles.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 22:36:01
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To lighten up the discussion some, I'd like to see a "warrior"/"rogue" use a (straight from the Munchkin Master's Guide!) Sneaky Bastard Sword...
and on a related note, the German term for Battleaxe would be Streitaxt, "streiten" however could be used in at least 2 ways, one is to physically fight, the other to verbally fight... I'd love to see an intelligent battleaxe start hurling insults at people...at random! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 23:04:06
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I think the Fighter series reflects fairly logical progressions based on what is present in the game world and the way D&D mechanics work. In a real world game, fighters begin to have difficulty finding interesting feats by the middle levels. There is little reason to stay as a fighter if you have the opportunity to specialize, which in D&D rules often means indirectly becoming more verstitile due to PrC abilities. Wizards on the other hand can specialize and customize through an infinite variety of spells, a fighters feats, feats in general, are less variable. Even then we do see a number of wizard PrCs that offer specialization, Red Wizards, Guildmage of Waterdeep, Silverymoon Spellguard, Cormyrian War Wizards, Rashemen Wychlaran Hathran, and even the regular Archmage.
Why be regular old Fighter Joe when you can be Spellsword Bob, Samurai Jack, or Cavalier Fred? While wizards are zipping around on spells, it's only logical for those who have the chance to tap into something of magic to take it.
Flavorful specialization is possible through feats, but there hasn't been implimented in core D&D or the Forgotten Realms. It is one of the reasons why I like the schools technique concept of Rokugan. Crane clan Kenshinzen duelists fight differently than Dragon clan Niten swordmasters due to a thousand year old difference in swordsmanship ideology. Their technique feats are different and can only be learned if you are part of the clan, or otherwise under very special circumstances. It sets warriors apart other than in name only.
But yeah, I lost track of where I was going with this.
It is usually harder to create a background for fighter feats in D&D/FR than it is for wizard spells. PrCs are even in this matter. |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 03:41:48
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quote:
I mean, not all "The Wizards" are wizards (Morgynn is a sorcerer, and there's a distribution in Blackstaff). But hey -- whatev.
I guess the reason they're bunching sorcerers and wizards together is that they're not going to make a "Sorcerer" series just for another four books of sorcerers. The Yellow Silk from the Rogues series portrayed a bard main character and Son of Thunder portrayed a barbarian main character. |
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Fighter series questions
