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Effect
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 02:06:32
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Dwarfs have always been a favorite fantasy race of mine for some reason. Are there any books or series of books where dwarfs are presented at the main charactes or one of the main characters?
Also stories that might be focused more on the dwarf aspect of the Forgotten Realms (could be player guides, books, short stories)? Any plans for stories like that?
Are there any particular writers that have been known to take a liking to the dwarf race in their stories and a result might make them some of the more interesting and well thought out characters?
Thanks.
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Edited by - Effect on 25 Jul 2006 16:05:54
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 02:14:44
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I take it you read a lot of Terry Pratchett... what with dwarfs and all...
In Crusade you have a bunch of dwarVEs but nothing that really deals with their culture. There are the Drizzt books which deal with dwarves. Cleric Quintet has 2 dwarves in it.
Hm...not much for dwarves there...see if you can find Dwarven Deep or is it Dwarves Deep. damn old module for AD&D, but it dealt only with dwarVEs.
Cheers |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 02:20:16
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The Drizzt series is, I think, the best bet for "dwarven" FR novels. The Cleric Quintet, perhaps not so much, because the two dwarves in it are, well, oddballs. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lore Seeker
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 02:29:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The Drizzt series is, I think, the best bet for "dwarven" FR novels. The Cleric Quintet, perhaps not so much, because the two dwarves in it are, well, oddballs.
I agree with you Rino. The Hunter's Blade trilogy is especially good in that respect. A lot of detail on dwarven battle strategy. And yes, Ivan and Pikel are a bit strange. Although I found them to be very entertaining characters, they may not be appealing to a fan of dwarves in a traditional sense because they are definately not your traditional dwarves. |
"So let it be written.....that I might read it."
Lore Seeker |
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 03:34:59
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Dwarves Deep!! definitely - still makes me want to run a dwarven campaign (PC's all dwarves).
The stories in the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms Campaign (PG2) may give a small glimpse into dwarven mindset (Lorrick) as well as the history under Aurglorossa in Cult of the Dragon may be of interest for things that can happen among their cities.
EvilKnight
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Edited by - EvilKnight on 25 Jul 2006 03:39:12 |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 03:39:57
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quote:
Also stories that might be focused more on the dwarf aspect of the Forgotten Realms (could be player guides, books, short stories)? Any plans for stories like that?
Are there any particular writers that have been known to take a liking to the dwarf race in their stories and a result might make them some of the more interesting and well thought out characters?
Yes, as the other posters have mentioned many of Salvatore's books focus on dwarFs. Specifically, Books I-III of the Legacy of the Drow and the last two books of the Hunter's Blades trilogy.
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Carthago delenda est. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 04:05:49
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| You can always take a look at the Dragonlance series as there are several dwarf-books there. My personal favorite the dwarven nations trilogy by Dan Parkinson for example. There are great differences between Realmsian dwarfs and Krynns, but if you are a fan of dwarfs in general you might find something there. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 05:59:53
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Dwarves aren't terribly common in Realms novels... Elfsong, Silver Shadows are two other books with dwarven characters (one each), as is Thornhold. All are part of Elaine Cunningham's Songs & Swords series (and they were originally Harpers novels).
Elaine has admitted that Jill from Silver Shadows was inspired by Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named Sue". 
Ebenezer Stoneshaft was cool, too, but it's Morgala the Mirthful I'd most like to see again. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Jul 2006 06:00:09 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 06:09:50
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| Doug Niles Moonshae books also features dwarfs and duergars, but mostly in the background. There is one female dwarf, I think she was named Finella, that plays a larger part in both the first and second series. Now, these books are in many ways a little apart from other realms novels in feel, but I think the dwarfs here are pretty much standard. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 08:10:33
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| I don't know if Salvatore's books should be recommended for their dwarf-focused content. Apart from a select few, Salvatore tends to use dwarves as cheap slapstick props. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 08:26:46
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| I was thinking the same thing as Winterfox, but I really hadn't read anywhere near all of Salvatore's works, so I didn't think it proper. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 09:09:41
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Salvatore's handling of dwarves irritates me because he turns them all into one big joke, and not just because of his choice of names like Muffinhead and Dagnabbit. It's the fact that he, like a large number of mediocre authors who absorb and perpetrate cliches, treats dwarves as funny little people who are just hilarious because they're short, dirty, and broad. Unlike the slender, tree-hugging, dance-in-the-moonlight elves who can be taken seriously because they're pretty and shiny and glamorous. (Even then, he doesn't seem to care much for their established customs and treads roughshod all over them when it suits him.)
Discworld all the way. For both dwarves and elves. |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 10:07:33
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| There is also a short-story by Lisa Smedman in "Realms of Dragons" featuring a "Standard Delving Procedure", which is fun to read. As for other novels, dwarves are rather rare, but Salvatore focused on dwarves in his last trilogy. In my opinion, Salvatore characterises dwarves pretty good, especially because they ARE a bunch of thick-headed, serious and grumbling guys (and girls). Interacting with other races results in comedy because of these traits. |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 14:27:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Braveheart
In my opinion, Salvatore characterises dwarves pretty good, especially because they ARE a bunch of thick-headed, serious and grumbling guys (and girls). Interacting with other races results in comedy because of these traits.
As you like. But I, personally, am sick of the fact that in most fantasy, dwarves exist solely for comic relief. In Salvatore's books in particular, they aren't even that funny. Slapstick can be done well, but this isn't well-done slapstick. ("Doo-dad", "Me brudder!" and "Oo oi"? Please. I rest my case.) For a change, I'd like to see dignified, respectable dwarves (there is one in Spellfire and Hand of Fire, but he's a rare exception), not these sad caricatures in Salvatore's books. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 14:46:59
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I whole heartedly agree with Winterfox on this one. If I read "Doo-Dad" one more time I may vomit. Also, the names Dagnabit, Bumpo Thunderpuncher, and Cordio Muffinhead are plain awful.
Along with the Dwarf in Spellfire, Son of Thunder has well written, non-comedic relief dwarf. |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 15:01:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
I whole heartedly agree with Winterfox on this one. If I read "Doo-Dad" one more time I may vomit. Also, the names Dagnabit, Bumpo Thunderpuncher, and Cordio Muffinhead are plain awful.
Along with the Dwarf in Spellfire, Son of Thunder has well written, non-comedic relief dwarf.
Pikel is a dwarf? 
I would enjoy a non-comedic-dwarf-novel too, but that's probably not going to happen any time soon in the Realms... |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 15:10:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
I whole heartedly agree with Winterfox on this one. If I read "Doo-Dad" one more time I may vomit.
Or burn the sodding book. It amazes me ever so slightly that repeating the same nonsense phrases over and over and over can be considered the height of hilarity. Of course, then again, potty humor is considered the height of wit by some, too. And uttering "Poo-poo" or "Pee-wee" will of course set certain people off into laughing fits.
quote:
Also, the names Dagnabit, Bumpo Thunderpuncher, and Cordio Muffinhead are plain awful.
I keep expecting something like "Bingo Fartalot" to show up. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 25 Jul 2006 15:17:06 |
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Dremvek
Seeker
70 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 15:18:56
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I was thinking the Hunters Blade's trilogy for the good views on Dwarven battle strategy and watching them fight a full scale war. I'll give you that Bruenor was the comic relief for the party until the brothers showed up, but as a nation, these books show Dwarves at their fighting peak - fearless warriors.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 15:31:54
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| I strongly recommand the ad&d source book "dwarves deep" for great insight to dwarven culture and society. Other than that I have found Races of Faerun fairly interesting (it presents one entry for each dwarven subrace). |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 15:44:05
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As no one has mentioned it, there is also the The Complete Book of Dwarves for the 2ed. This is a general, not a FR book, but there is as the name implies a great deal of dwarven lore in this one.
And, when it comes to Salvatore and dwarves, I have to agree with numerous other posters when it comes to the way they are represented here. This is definitely not the place to look if you are a fan of dwarves. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 16:22:03
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| Unfortunately there isn't much else for the Realms, novelwise... maybe one of the writers frequenting the forum will kinda think "Hey, dwarves...why not dwarves?" :) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 16:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Unfortunately there isn't much else for the Realms, novelwise... maybe one of the writers frequenting the forum will kinda think "Hey, dwarves...why not dwarves?" :)
Because most people think dwarves aren't glamorous enough, as I mentioned. Fey'ri? Elves? Drow? Wonderful. They are pretty and exotic and shiny. Writers can spend all day describing the glossiness of their hair, the slenderness of their figures, the grace of their movements, the amazing wonderfulness of their magic, and in surface elves' case, how in tune with nature they are and gag-me-with-a-frakking-spoon. Dwarves? Short, ugly, and dirty. So obviously nobody wants to write or read about them.
Not to mention that every single one of them is a walking stereotype. Elves and drow and so forth get their occasional oddball, but dwarves? They always mine, quaff ale, use battle axes, and get grumpy toward humans, elves, and halflings. Shaft me sideways with a bloody frakking cliche.
The ones that Salvatore's written but aren't walking cliches don't fare that much better. "Fret" is a laughingstock. Pikel is mentally retarded. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 25 Jul 2006 16:55:02 |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 17:16:38
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| Speaking of Dragonlance (Wooly Rupert) and Douglas Niles (Jorkens), Mr. Niles' Dlance novel The Last Thane (part of the Chaos War Series) is an enjoyable read that focuses on dwarves. |
Carthago delenda est. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 18:02:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ignorance Personified
Speaking of Dragonlance (Wooly Rupert) and Douglas Niles (Jorkens), Mr. Niles' Dlance novel The Last Thane (part of the Chaos War Series) is an enjoyable read that focuses on dwarves.
I didn't mention Dragginglance... 
I'm not a fan of Doug Niles. Thus far, I've two trilogies and a stand-alone novel by him, and none have really grabbed me.
The old Advanced Dungeons & Dragons comic had a dwarf as a main character: Onyx the Invincible. He's now down in Tethyr. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 18:06:11
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Hello-
You could also check out the Candlekeep Compendium! Penned by some of the scribes right here at Candlekeep - and containing 'The Hammer's Stroke' column - about Dwarves!
Link: http://candlekeep.com/compendium/index.htm
or - look up at Wooly's signature - the link is there - and pretty too!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 20:08:25
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quote:
Originally Posted By: Wooly Rupert
I didn't mention Dragginglance...
My mistake...I will need to start using the quote feature more often. |
Carthago delenda est. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 20:51:49
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Thread has gone long enough without mentioning Delg, a stout dwarf with secrets, in Spellfire and Crown of Fire.
Bob Salvatore's dwarves are figures of fun -- odd for someone so influenced by Tolkien -- have inauthentic names, and if he's read FR11 Dwarves Deep he's being subtle about it.
As well as FR11, read up on the dwarven pantheon in Demihuman Deities, and Undermountain: The Lost Level. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 20:54:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
...So obviously nobody wants to write or read about them.
That is not a totally true statement.
Choen of Moradin, also called "nobody", when the matter is read about dwarves. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 21:05:05
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| Even advertisers, with their great and unholy crafts, have difficulty knowing what people really want. When there's low supply because of low perceived demand, did the chicken or egg come first? Did Lords of Darkness really sell worse than Magic of Faerūn because of lack of crunch, or because it was a DM-targeted sourcebook? There continue to be dwarf-themed Dragonlance novels, and I imagine with the right proposal there could be for the Realms too. But historical novels aren't likely, and the 'old terrors come back to haunt' theme has been overdone of late. But more incidental dwarves (like gays), and dwarven places (the Dungeons novels?) and craftworks, please. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 21:30:36
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| Incidental gays and incidental dwarves - they both get my approval. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 21:38:43
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Gay dwarves? Oh no...wait...it's gray dwarves...
It would be nice to read more about dwarves, especially Gold Dwarves since their culture didn't burn down every other century or so. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Dwarf focused stories/books and writers?
