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atlas689
Learned Scribe
123 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 21:44:26
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What is the most powerful fire: silverfire, spellfire, dragonfire, or another?
-Atlas
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Soldiers fight, thieves steal, bards sing, wizards cast, sages think, assassins kill. Good or Evil we all have a job. So tell me this. What the hell are nobles and merchants for?
From: Thoughts of an Old Sage
by: An Old Sage (anonymous) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 22:42:28
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| I am amazed! Silverfire is the strongest fire? Is that Selune's bag or something. And if so, Selune is really that big??? I mostly think of her as a distraction. Cool but lacking any real power. This may be due to my lack of reading anything really relevant to Selune in the 53 FR books that I have read (not including the 10 sourcebooks I have but haven't totally read through all of them yet). Please inform me better brave sages! |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
Edited by - Wandering_mage on 30 Jun 2006 22:44:21 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 22:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I am amazed! Silverfire is the strongest fire? Is that Selune's bag or something. And if so, Selune is really that big??? I mostly think of her as a distraction. Cool but lacking any real power. This may be due to my lack of reading anything really relevant to Selune in the 53 FR books that I have read (not including the 10 sourcebooks I have but haven't totally read through all of them yet). Please inform me better brave sages!
No, Silverfire is given to Mystra's Chosen by her.
However, I'd say it's a toss up between Silverfire and Spellfire. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2006 : 23:34:55
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quote:
What is the most powerful fire: silverfire, spellfire, dragonfire, or another?
Depends on the characters involved and the context.. Say for example that Shandril (given she was still alive) and Elminster decided to square-off for a knockdown drag-out fight.. If the story were being portrayed as Shandril getting uppity and needing a smackdown, well Elminster would win hands down.. If the Shandril needed a moment of huge success in order to develop a huge ego complex before her inevitable come-uppence, well then she'd smack that old coot around like he was a redheaded stepchild and he'd be in awe of her raw unbridled (and yet untrained) power.. If one of the Seven Sisters need to be offed by a dragon for the purposes of a story (and really I can't think of one that doesn't need that) then they'd inflict massive amounts of damage, but in the end the sheer volume of massed dragonfire would rule supreme.. Basically the answer is - It's all relative.. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 00:23:59
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We don't know how spellfire and silverfire interact. We do know that one Chosen has been killed by dragon fire (Sylune), and that spellfire pretty much trumps all magic. So really, it's a toss-up.
Also, it must be asked which edition of spellfire we're talking about.2e spellfire was broken (way too powerful). 3e spellfire, from what I've read, seems broken also, but way too weak. And the spellfire from the novels is the most powerful of all. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 00:36:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
We don't know how spellfire and silverfire interact. We do know that one Chosen has been killed by dragon fire (Sylune), and that spellfire pretty much trumps all magic. So really, it's a toss-up.
Also, it must be asked which edition of spellfire we're talking about.2e spellfire was broken (way too powerful). 3e spellfire, from what I've read, seems broken also, but way too weak. And the spellfire from the novels is the most powerful of all.
Sylune died by Suicide, she used the Retributive Strike of a Staff Of Power (or was it a Staff of the Magic?) to kill a dragon.
As to Silverfire vs Spellfire, I think Technically, Spellfire is the more powerful. Silverfire is granted by Mystra to her chosen, while Spellfire is raw magic itself, requiring no divine access at all. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 04:06:10
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| Yeah, but silverfire is a part of Mystra's power, whereas spellfire is just the Weave. Since Mystra controls the Weave, I'd say that her power is more powerful than spellfire. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 15:12:53
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I tend to agree with Wooly. But either way Spellfire or Silverfire....OUCH! And if both just blast through any magical barriers (evewn a wall of force) as if it were nothing at all then hmmmm from a players perspective, what does it matter?  I leave the mysterious powers of the chosen and the unlucky recipients of spellfire to Master Sage Greenwood. He is right and just in its use. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 17:15:24
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| Sylune was dying, and decided to take down her killer at the same time. If she hadn't broken her staff, she still would have been dead; the only change would have been the red dragon walking away. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 07:50:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I tend to agree with Wooly. But either way Spellfire or Silverfire....OUCH! And if both just blast through any magical barriers (evewn a wall of force) as if it were nothing at all then hmmmm from a players perspective, what does it matter? I leave the mysterious powers of the chosen and the unlucky recipients of spellfire to Master Sage Greenwood. He is right and just in its use.
Actually a Wall of Force was able to stop Spellfire, while a Prismatic Wall wasn't able to, in the Spellfire novel. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 07:56:53
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I tend to agree with Wooly. But either way Spellfire or Silverfire....OUCH! And if both just blast through any magical barriers (evewn a wall of force) as if it were nothing at all then hmmmm from a players perspective, what does it matter? I leave the mysterious powers of the chosen and the unlucky recipients of spellfire to Master Sage Greenwood. He is right and just in its use.
Actually a Wall of Force was able to stop Spellfire, while a Prismatic Wall wasn't able to, in the Spellfire novel.
And it could in the 2e versions of Spellfire as well that are in the sourcebooks and I think it's even in the 3/3.5e version. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 12:45:55
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| That is just surprising! A Wall of Force is like 6th level right? Sooo, some ruddy poo 6th level spell blocks spellfire???? I say nay. Some one forgot to adjust the info to consider FR lore. Then again if Greenwood allows it I must submit to his wise and just use of it. Thus I shall relent. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 16:05:38
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This is a question that has been put to Ed in many, many GenCon seminars as well as internal TSR design docs (from Jeff Grubb's time as Realms honcho, before the hiring of Steven Schend, Rich Baker, et al).
The accepted "official" answer back then was (in my paraphrasing):
Silver fire is the most puissant, because it's more intense than Spellfire: it snatches and channels energy directly. Spellfire drinks energy from the Weave, and hence is slightly limited in bandwidth (recall Shandril's pain in using it: the physical limitations of her body are also limitations on spellfire throughput). Dragonfire is intensely fierce, and may for large wyrms be much larger in volume, but it's far less precise and is an entire order of magnitude less "hot" than either of the other two.
El Magnifico Uno in his posting seems to exhibit a belief that "which fire wins" depends on the fictional needs of the moment, or the prejudices of the author. The former is quite true (Jeff Grubb once explained it as "we just don't know what will happen in most battlefield combinations and collisions of magic"), but the latter is only true if authors ignored the design dictates.
Then again, my reading of some of the later novels suggests that the writers didn't receive any design dictates. Sigh.
love,
THO
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atlas689
Learned Scribe
123 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 04:11:48
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Thanks very much for your great use of wisdom in settling this matter, THO! Your vast amount of knowledge always amazes me, Tempus thanks you!
-Atlas |
Soldiers fight, thieves steal, bards sing, wizards cast, sages think, assassins kill. Good or Evil we all have a job. So tell me this. What the hell are nobles and merchants for?
From: Thoughts of an Old Sage
by: An Old Sage (anonymous) |
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Akukakk
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 05:17:59
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| while silverfire draws from Mystra's weave. does spellfire just draw from Mystra's or also Shars also? |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 09:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Akukakk
while silverfire draws from Mystra's weave. does spellfire just draw from Mystra's or also Shars also?
Spellfire draws its energy from the Weave, not from Shar's Shadow Weave. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 14:45:58
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| However, it does draw in and cancel (and I believe convert to spellfire) any Shadow Weave spells that are thrown at the wielder. Ed talked about it in one of his replies, so it's in Kuje's file somewhere. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 16:32:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
However, it does draw in and cancel (and I believe convert to spellfire) any Shadow Weave spells that are thrown at the wielder. Ed talked about it in one of his replies, so it's in Kuje's file somewhere.
Feb 28th and March 15th of this year. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 03 Jul 2006 16:32:48 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 17:10:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
However, it does draw in and cancel (and I believe convert to spellfire) any Shadow Weave spells that are thrown at the wielder. Ed talked about it in one of his replies, so it's in Kuje's file somewhere.
So in that regard Spellfire is more powerful than Silverfire, since Silverfire doesn't react very well to Shadow Weave magic.    |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 22:01:23
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| What happens? And where is it demonstrated? (If it's in RotA, no wonder I don't know about it...) |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 01:02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What happens? And where is it demonstrated? (If it's in RotA, no wonder I don't know about it...)
Let's just say that is why Elminster went to visit some Devils... unless my memory is off, which it could be. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 22:03:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What happens? And where is it demonstrated? (If it's in RotA, no wonder I don't know about it...)
Silver fire meeting shadow magic causes a huge growing rip in reality. In other words: do NOT mix these two. They get on like cats and lynxes. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Most powerful fire?
