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barry
Acolyte
South Africa
27 Posts |
 Posted - 09 May 2006 : 19:23:34
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Why does the Simbul not have epic levels listed in her stats when powerful mages like el(4), blackcloak(5) and lolock(12), also for that matter Telemont tanthul (masters of darkness) Ilioum (lost empire of faeren). He is listed as a 31_ level wis though. Need a good wise sage for this.
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 19:36:56
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Reread page 289 in the FRCS, it all there, I believe.
Note that the epic rules changed between FRCS and the Epic Level Handbook. "Epic" is no longer an epic benefit anymore, so to speak 
Check out
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicBasicsAndClasses.htm
if you don't own the 3.5 DMG or the ELH.
Hope this helps.
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 06:12:22
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When the FRCS was written, characters who advanced beyond 20th level had the choice of either
A) gain an epic level benefit (such as +1 to an ability score OR +1 to all attacks OR +1 spell level higher than the highest level spell they can cast)
B) gain an effective level in any class or prestige class, gaining its skill points, class features, abilities, and spells, but not BAB, BSB, hitpoints, etc, although they could not go above 20 levels in one class under this option.
At 20th level, the Simbul was a Sor14/Acm2/Wiz4, and then gained six effective levels of sorcerer and six effective levels as a wizard as her effective epic levels.
When the Epic Level Handbook came out, characters who had "Epic Level Benefits" traded them for actual epic levels in their primary class (i.e. Elminster went from being a Ftr1/Rog2/Clr3/Wiz20/Acm5/Epic4 to a Ftr1/Rog2/Clr3/Wiz24/Acm5. Characters who had effective levels in a class or prestige class basically stayed the same, except that now under the epic rules they gained their BAB, BSB, and hitpoints (in addition to the skill points, class features, and spells they already had from those effective class levels).
As for why the Simbul is a Sor20/Acm2/Wiz10 instead of say...Sor30/Acm2 or Wiz30/Acm2? I imagine it had to do with the rules that were available at the time. If you ONLY use the 3.0 PHB and the FRCS, but not the ELH (which was published much later), then the Simbul's stat block is actually quite powerful...as she has the full spellcasting abilities of a 20th+ level sorcerer, in addition to 10 more levels of skill points and bonus feats. Using only the PHB and the FRCS, this put her at an advantage over the characters who used the "Epic Benefits" option instead of "effective class levels", for one it gave her more feats than say a Sor20/Epic12, as well as more skill points and a higher maximum skill ranks....which explains why her concentration check is sooo much higher than that of any other NPC in the FRCS.
However, under the Epic Level Handbook rules, this scenario really sucks. Her multiclassed caster levels do not stack with each other, which really cripples her dispel checks, spell penetration checks, and the DC to dispel her own spells...in addition, she would have the exact same number of feats if she swapped out her 10 Wizard levels for 10 epic sorcerer levels...except she could choose EPIC level feats to replace them, and wouldn’t be saddled down with scribe scroll.
Basically, unless you refine her list of feats, equipment, or supernatural abilities list to include things like Practiced Spellcaster, +caster levels items or effects, or rings of wizardry (which will simultaneously double her spells per day from both classes), then there really isn’t a point to sticking to that hastily mashed together class/level block.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 17:52:37
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To be honest, I think the Simbul was made a primary "sorcerer" to give an example of a sorcerer withing the context of an existing NPC. So they picked someone powerful and important, and statted her as a sorcerer.
I think that in a lot of the books you have a pretty good basis to say, however, that she has preparred spells, written new spells, learned out of spellbooks, and while she could be a sorcerer and do all of these things, they tend to point more readily to a wizard in 3rd and 3.5 rules.
Add to that the fact that its always been implied that she is likely the most powerful of the Chosen that we know of, it doesn't make sense for a lot of her levels to be tied up in a class that doesn't enhance her ability to be a better sepllcaster.
This all falls back on the idea that the rules exist to approximate the abilities of a character in the story, and while I think 3.5 does a better job of allowing you to approximate a character better than any previous editions, sometimes "game" choices trump logical "story" choices.
Long story short . . . if I ever needed stats for the Simbul in my game, she would likely be a 30+ level wizard . . . |
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Nightbreeze
Acolyte
Italy
33 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 20:35:13
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| If i ever need the symbul in my campaign i would just say that HER wizard and sorcerer levels stack for dispel checks and so on...because i really like her as a sorceress and i think she deserves being able to cast almost every 1-2-3-4-5 wiz/sor spell, so she would still have 20 sor/10 wiz. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 09:04:58
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I'd personally make her a Wizard too - but because of her sheer amount of magical versatility, spell research, and mastery of metamagic. One only has so many Wishes a day, and one can only have so many spells in one's Spellbook in a day, too.
It just really sucks when an arch-sorcerer wants to develop a spell and goes, "Crap, my spellbook is full."
I couldn't see the Simbul putting up for that kind of rot. ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 11:31:23
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| While there are only 100 pages in a spell book a Wizard can own 100 spell books. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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epic level stats missing?
