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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 29 May 2006 : 17:13:08
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| Exactly what I was thinking. Most of the encounters, in my opinion, would be from adults to middle aged phaerimm. So in effect, a CR rating of 15 to say about 17 would probably be the norm, with maybe a leader being of 18 or 19 CR. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2006 : 08:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I wish we *WOULD* face Phaerimm with CR 21 in our longest-running campaign... too many seem to have more than 20 spellcaster levels (which, I guess, is the 2nd edition approach to them).
I think many DMs who have used Phaerimm in their campaigns don't want to modify them (=subtracting spellcaster levels) when each new edition alters their statistics.
The general problem with "modification" is that under 2nd edition rules a phaerimm could take on almost anything and live to tell the tale, so those of us familiar with Ruins of Myth Drannor live with the TPK-approach (I think), since this was the original approach. Some foes are just not to be dealt with directly.
To make enemies more easily defeatable devalues the lore in my opinion, plus it gives players the false impression. If a party is able to defeat a monster with ease the next encounter will be less dramatic.
Admittedly, phaerimm aren't something that the common adventurer faces everyday, but it should be something if encountered that the characters crawl away from. If a party encounters a paherimm it should be the final showdown of a campaign or some such thing. The survivors should learn a lesson: phaerimm=death. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Nightbreeze
Acolyte
Italy
33 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2006 : 20:17:41
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| Yes, but it really depends on what levels the player are. I really agree that in a normal 1-20lvl campaign players should pray and run as soon as they see something that merely resembles a phaerimm, i think that at 22th level they should have at least a chance to survive. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2006 : 04:58:54
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I hear what you are saying Nightbreeze. However, I do believe Mace has the right if it.
I do not think that the phaerimm should be portrayed as in RoTA. I think that a climatic type encounter, after a long campaign, would be more suitable.
My opinion is that what happened in RoTA, where they ran rampant through Evereska and nearby lands, was a bit much, even though I truly enjoyed the trilogy. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2006 : 08:31:44
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To quote an old Ravenloft hook line: there are no random encounters...only deadly ones. This holds very much true for phaerimm. With the watering down that went on with the phaerimm from 2nd to 3.5th edition they have become ... uh... whimps. Ed's treatment on the phaerimm was defined in Ruins of Myth Drannor, and anyone who ever read the stats knows phaerimm were something you just did not use as a random encounter.
I mean seriously, these folks are DEADLY, and they were meant to be so. In all honesty, if the 3.5 phaerimm are the same ones that brought down Netheril and created Anauroch one has got to wonder why the bloody hell the Netherese lost.
The CR system is a crutch, a good one certainly, but to say you need a phaerimm that can be defeated is so much beside the point that it gets ridiculous. The phaerimm managed to bring the magic-mightiest empire in human history of Faerūn to their knees, and a bunch of lvl 22 characters should defeat even one of them? I don't think so... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Nightbreeze
Acolyte
Italy
33 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2006 : 14:23:36
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| Oh, yes the Phaerimm really defeated Netheril, but they were many and acting together. Besides, if my memory hasn't abandoned my, they never forced a direct battle, but acted in the shadows, spreading draining life magics that lead to unrest, internal fights and almost a civil war. And wasn't saying that a party of 22 lvl characters should defeat ONE, i meant that they should at least stand for a while before they have to run. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 01:25:04
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Oh, I don't know, a party that high should be able to kill one... if they can fight it *entirely* on their own terms.
And, actually, I've had lower-level parties take apart RoMD-phaerimm. But they were smart: they studied them intently and learned what did and didn't work against them over the course of many battles before they achieved a victory. Plus, that was by-far the smartest, most tightly-knit group I've ever DM'ed. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2006 : 08:03:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Oh, I don't know, a party that high should be able to kill one... if they can fight it *entirely* on their own terms.
And, actually, I've had lower-level parties take apart RoMD-phaerimm. But they were smart: they studied them intently and learned what did and didn't work against them over the course of many battles before they achieved a victory. Plus, that was by-far the smartest, most tightly-knit group I've ever DM'ed.
This case is an exception, if a group can choose the time and place of the conflict I have no doubt a phaerimm can be beaten, so can a high level wizard. But as you said, it takes a tight knit group and very careful planning. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Phaerimm/RotA-novels
