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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Mar 2003 : 09:10:14
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Just trying to find out more about the mystery that is campaigning. How much of your campaigns are fueled by dice-rolls, and how much by your (meaning DMs) decisions? Or to put it another way, how much is pure roll-of-the-dice chance, and when is it up to the DM?
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Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2003 : 09:28:13
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 You want me to spoil my secrets in front of the players that are also on this board...? 
Hehehe... truth be told, for me it's a combination of both. I often use the dice (or the computer) for some randomness, but the story is more important, so therefore fudging the dice rolls or making up the results is also a big part of the job.
It's a matter of DM style I guess. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2003 : 09:36:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
You want me to spoil my secrets in front of the players that are also on this board...?
Far be it! Never ask any magician or DM to reveal such things! I just don't have a DM that I can steal notes -- I mean, gain information from.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2003 : 10:13:02
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| I always use dice but tend to fudge the roll to the players advantage...sometimes |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2003 : 14:39:17
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Both, one time i cheated on the dices for my party not to be wiped out. (not because the encounter was too difficult, but because of the incredible number of critical hits i made!!!)
But in anyway i'll help a player that obviously made a mistake (a big one) or who knew the risks of the action |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2003 : 05:01:07
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| How often do you lay deliberate traps for the players to run into? Things that you don't want them to avoid? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2003 : 07:47:31
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With respect to combat and similar situations, I depend on the die as I like the element of randomness. I cheat with the dice rolls when they are up against something that I made which turned out to be too much of a challenge.
I never roll surprise roll, encounter reactions or moral because I feel it takes up too much time. In these situations, I simply decide what happens based on the facts on the moment.
I like traps a lot but none of them are deadly (at least so far) so they can usually afford screwing up. I mean, sometimes the thief of the party finds the traps by stepping on them to the amusement of everybody else. Beyond that, I am also a great fan of riddles, puzzles and other tricks but if they prove too difficult, there is usually some other way around the problem.
I attempt to provide at least two or three different solutions to most problems to reward the players who keep fighting to find a way around a problem rather than giving up.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
Edited by - Echon on 13 Mar 2003 07:49:00 |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2003 : 18:17:03
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I don't cheat very often. And sometimes my traps are REALLY deadly. The great villain won't make easy-to-survive after all!  Last time the rogue of the group fell in a trap that left her with only 2 HP! (She's level 12)
That makes my players really aware of the dangers of this world! |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2003 : 02:12:16
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| I've never DM'd before, but I think that it should be a compromise between going by the dice every time and making up the rolls each time. When you fudge the die rolls too often, the game loses it's sense of being realistic and the players could grow tired of the game(I'm copying some things I read from the DMG, ). On the other hand, the rules are not nearly complex enough to have a solution for every situation, so sometimes the DM should just make up an answer. |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2003 : 03:55:49
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The dice are way behind the story in priority.
I fudge whenever they can't see them and every once in a while I even let some players with really good karma reroll disastrous results.
I have never claimed to be a good DM. But I think I am a creative person and a good storyteller, and that helps me fake it . |
Artalis
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2003 : 08:58:49
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Once, again a player i rolled a critical hit... but it was obvious that i wouldn'tsurvive the next hit. So i just annouced a hit. My players seeing that it took me a little time to decide asked me to see the dice because he knew i cheated...
I showed him... he died |
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2003 : 12:22:52
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Haha talking of traps recently my players walked into a trap. I didnt plan this trap out very much I decided to teach them a lesson. We where playing the "Secret of Spiderhaunt" adventure when it happened. They where coming up for the encounter with 2 Zhent Wizards, 6 Zhent warriors and 3 Draken Beasts. I felt that this adventure was very difficult for 4 3-4th lv characters but decided not to tone it down (I could at least fudge some dice rolls ) The part was about to trigger the encounter when... they decided to split up. Ruining my plans. Immediately I decided that they weren’t getting away with it. The Thief of the Party Falco decided to keep on walking straight ahead. Calmly I asked Falco's Player to wait next door. I left the others in the room while I went and describe the battle to Falco's Player. Half way through it he surrendered to the Zhent. Half of the Zhents took him and escorted him to a camp near Dagger Falls. Basically to cut things short, the players bad decision left Falco a prisoner and out of pocket. (He lost all his equipment and money. Only in a latter adventure getting his short sword +2 and a magical ring back) Falco was rescued by some freedom riders and now the players split into groups!
Slightly evil i know but it taught them a valuble lesson:
"Never stress the DM by spliting up into several Small groups"
Hanx
Elrond
P.S. Im back |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2003 : 20:18:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Artalis
The dice are way behind the story in priority
I couldn't agree more, Artalis. All my dice rolls are hidden and I never ask to see my players' rolls either. There is a lot to be said for trust in the game. I do believe that dice are needed in the game but their use should be tempered by some common sense. For example, I never roll for moral, reaction or surprise but my players still believe I do (well, I do roll but don't use the result - if you see what I mean). Dice are a means to an end, not an end in themselves |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2003 : 21:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by kahonen
For example, I never roll for moral, reaction or surprise but my players still believe I do (well, I do roll but don't use the result - if you see what I mean
I see what you mean! I do exa tly the same. When i decided that a group have suffered too much loss, they run away. It depends on their races (a zombie never runs), their faiths (Paladins of Tyr won't flee the battle unless they have a good reason) or their groups (fanatics from th Cult of the Dragons don't even understand what fear is!) |
Edited by - zemd on 18 Mar 2003 21:42:59 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 11:08:29
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quote:
Originally posted by kahonen
quote:
Originally posted by Artalis
The dice are way behind the story in priority
I couldn't agree more, Artalis. All my dice rolls are hidden and I never ask to see my players' rolls either. There is a lot to be said for trust in the game. I do believe that dice are needed in the game but their use should be tempered by some common sense. For example, I never roll for moral, reaction or surprise but my players still believe I do (well, I do roll but don't use the result - if you see what I mean). Dice are a means to an end, not an end in themselves
I agree with your point of view Kahonen, though as a DM I have always found the dice distracting from the role-playing. Calling out numbers during a combat does take away some of the role-playing tension (though the combat might still be full of tension regardless). In the PbeM where I'm controlling all the dice rolls, players don't know if their actions will succeed, they have no way of calculating the opponents AC... it leaves more mystery in the game. Something which I miss in the Table-top games. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 11:15:02
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| In the other hand, we can't play dnd without players rolling dices... If the DM do it, i'll be too much work for the DM |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 12:29:28
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| I realize that, it's sort of a 'catch 22'... But it is one of the reasons why I like the PbeM stuff more. There I do have the time as a DM to make all the dice rolls. |
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MidNight
Acolyte
Netherlands
43 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 14:44:59
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I hope I'm permitted to share my experiences about this matter being a player and not a DM  I think it totally depends on the situation and therefore is a combination of both, as some scribes have already said here. When you make a mistake as a player and it is not directly your fault (eg. something appears to be too hard to handle what at first didn't seem that difficult) I think the DM will see to it that it doesn't have fatal consequenses for the player. And I also think it depends on how experienced the player/the character is.
But sometimes players make decisions they haven't thought over enough and the DM just can't help the mistakes they make. You know, for instance, that if your character is level 1 you can't handle an ogre on your own. But if the player chooses to fight him anyway, may Tymora be with him, for the DM can't interfere with that. Or at least, that's my opinion |
Love magic for itself. Do not treat it just as a weapon to reshape the world to your will. True wisdom is knowing when not to use magic. Strive to use magic less as your powers develop, for often the threat or promise of its use outstrips is actual performance. Magic is an Art, the Gift of the Lady, and those who wield it are privileged it the extreme. Conduct yourself humbly, not proudly, while being mindful of this. Use the Art deftly and efficiently, not carelessly and recklessly. Seek always to learn and create new magic. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 19:54:37
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quote:
Originally posted by MidNight
But if the player chooses to fight him anyway, may Tymora be with him, for the DM can't interfere with that. Or at least, that's my opinion
I totaly agree, as for me, my campaign will come to ToT at the next session. For wild magic i won't make ANY gift, if they cast a spell, Mytra be with them!!! |
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Alexis Merlin
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 22:49:38
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Hi all,
I would agree totally with the general comments on this thread about the dice being way behind GM decision in terms of Gameplay - I always try to make my session fun above all else - by giving the players opportunities for heroism and adventure, and ways to bring out their characters in better ways than just their different styles of combat. There was one session (it was fantasy but not actually D&D, so I will just use general details) in which one of the main monsters was a Skeletal Tyrannosauros....unfortunately I rolled a critical failure, and they ended up killing it with one blow...
Now although I didn't intend it to be a really lethal challenge, it was supposed to at least last more than one round!
I learnt two things that day...
1)Keep your own die rolls hidden where possible with a good GM screen
2)Don't leave monster stat sheets lying in player view (so they can tell that it doesn't have any protection against critical hits etc... )
I also wish that I get a decent DM, the only one's I've had have tended to focus more on the "Master" part rather than ensuring the players actually have a good time... |
It is knowledge that influences and equalizes the social condition of man; that gives to all, however different their political position, passions which are in common, and enjoyments which are universal.
(Benjamin Disraeli)
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 23:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by zemd
I totaly agree, as for me, my campaign will come to ToT at the next session. For wild magic i won't make ANY gift, if they cast a spell, Mytra be with them!!!
But what if they hit a roll that kills the caster or another member of the party? Would you just let that happen? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2003 : 08:07:54
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For me it really depends. Combat to me is pure skill and chance. Even a master of the blade can fumble every now and then. Morale however, I never roll for, as that is best decided in the current moment and the mental outlook of the current enemy. If the enemy is getting its but kicked, they'll probably run away to fight again later. But if they're fanatical, as zemd pointed out The Cult of the Dragon are, then they'll fight to the death, no matter WHAT the odds are.
I basically play it by ear on most things other than combat. It's all about the story and current situation. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2003 : 13:52:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
quote:
Originally posted by zemd
I totaly agree, as for me, my campaign will come to ToT at the next session. For wild magic i won't make ANY gift, if they cast a spell, Mytra be with them!!!
But what if they hit a roll that kills the caster or another member of the party? Would you just let that happen?
Yes. Futhermore, in rulebooks, cleric aren't allowed to cast spells aboce 3rd level. In the book, they can't cast any spell if their deity isn't more than 1 mile away. I chose the novel version (the hardest) |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2003 : 00:30:00
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quote:
Yes. Futhermore, in rulebooks, cleric aren't allowed to cast spells aboce 3rd level. In the book, they can't cast any spell if their deity isn't more than 1 mile away. I chose the novel version (the hardest)
 Ouch. You sound like a pretty tough DM zemd. But doesn't the spell limitation depend on the priests access to their deities spheres of influence? Major access means they can cast ALL spells from that sphere, and minor means they're limited to up to 3rd level. At least that's how it is in 2nd Ed. I don't know jack about 3rd Ed. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
Edited by - Alaundo on 31 Mar 2003 08:08:09 |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2003 : 10:26:44
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| There're no spheres in 3E. Now the priest choose two sphere, each one gives him a special bonus and a list of spells dedicated to that sphere |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2003 : 17:53:59
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It's decision over dice for me. I sometimes get so carried away with the narrative that no-one rolls a dice for half an hour! I always have a D100 on hand, so I can work out chances in a percentage based style if necessary.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 06:29:26
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| They sell d100s? I thought you just had to roll 10d10 and add it up. Those must be huge! |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 09:46:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
They sell d100s? I thought you just had to roll 10d10 and add it up. Those must be huge!
Yeah they are. The size of golf balls, and actually pretty worthless as play dice. Those suckers NEVER stop rolling once you toss them! The most common d100, or otherwise known as percentile dice, are 2 different colored 10 sided (dark for tens, light for ones). I personally use 10 sided 20's (which are extremely hard to find these days).
The golf ball sized d100's I call my 'Player Control' dice. Anyone gets out of hand, and bonk! |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2003 : 19:34:49
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I dont mean one big dice! I mean two D10's, one marked in single figures (1,2,3,4 etc) and one in doubles (10,20,30,40 etc) , rolled concurrently and using the double figures as the 'tens' and the single figures as the units.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2003 : 07:05:42
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Oh yeah. I remember those from the PHB now. Still you can't blame me for jumping to that conclusion. There are already so many weird dice for this game!  I know it saves time to roll a d20 instead of 2d10, but I think it would be simpler without having all those dice in the way.
Then again, having only known the theory (I've never even seen anything with more sides than a d8 from another game), I probably don't know what I'm talking about. After all, it seems to work well for you guys . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Defence Minister
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2003 : 17:06:58
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Most games now have a D20 version, but I only like D20 for D&D, otherwise I prefer percentage based.
TDM |
- TDM (Candlekeep's most popular, experienced and handsome member) |
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Dice or decision?
