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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 11:00:47
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Why does Daelegoth Orndeir stat block in PoF have the Heretic of the faith feat instead of the Servant of the Fallen feat?
Daelegoth openly worships Amaunator (A Fallen deity who requires the Servant of the Fallen feat to recieve Divine spells)
Would Clerics of Leira/Mykrul/Bhaal be Heretics of the Faithful (Cyric) or Servants of their Fallen deities?
When should the two feats be used?
Seperately?
Together?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 14 Apr 2006 11:01:58
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 11:24:38
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It depends on the nature of the worship I think.
As far as I understand it, a heretic of the faithful worshipping Aumanator believes that Lathander is another incarnation of Aumanator or that Lathander will be reborn as Aumanator, and so in effect they worship Lathander using Aumanators name.
Whereas ones that worship the god, either knowing them to be dead, or believe they are coming back on their own (not through another god) would be servants of the fallen.
For example worshippers of Moander would be Servants of the Fallen, not a Heretic of Finder Wyvernspur |
Edited by - Kaladorm on 14 Apr 2006 11:25:10 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 14:59:20
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>>For example worshippers of Moander would be Servants of the Fallen, not a Heretic of Finder >>Wyvernspur
Unless of course some priest within the hierarchy of Finder Wyverspur puts forth the heretical belief that Moander didn't really die, he just corrupted Finder <g> |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Vainelus
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 15:43:01
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For the Clerics of Leira/Mykrul/Bhaal, I would go with those clerics that believe Cyric is said deities reborn, merged together, or any other theory that claims Cyric = Leira/Mykrul/Bhaal would take Heretic of the faith feat.
For Clerics that still draw their powers from the original deities divine power and believe in the dogma of Leira/Mykrul/Bhaal, they would take Servant of the Fallen. Clerics with the Servant of the Fallen feat would not claim to worship Cyric in this example.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2006 : 06:25:17
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I think the point of the Heretic of the Faith/Servant of the Fallen feats is that while everyone gets their divine power from some divine entity, not everyone knows for sure that the divine entity that they get their power from are the divine entity that they worship . . . if that makes any sense.
In the end, if you can explain your heresy well enough, you could use either feat, but it does depend on how you roleplay the situation. For example, you could have a cleric of Murdane that uses the Servant of the Fallen feat that beleives that Murdane still exists, greatly weakened, and thus should be worshipped and brought back. You could play another cleric of Murdane that actually beleives that as Helm's lover, Helm absorbed her power, and now exists as a dual aspect, male female deity, a pragmatic philosopher that wants to preserve society and then analyse why it is the way it is. That cleric would then have the Heretic of the Faith feat.
Acutally, I like the idea that you can play with these in this manner, as it does kind of stimulate player ingenuity.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2006 : 15:10:15
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Servant of the Fallen allows you to get spells from a dead god that is no longer alive to grant them.
Heretic of the Faith allows you to add another step to the one-step rule for purposes of obtaining spells, extending it to a two-step rule. Thus, a chaotic heretic could receive spells from a lawful god.
Likewise a neutral evil assassin-priest of the Waves of Retribution can worship the NG Eldath in her aspect of Eldath of the Purging Waters, believing that, just as a violent storm is sometimes necessary to cleanse the land, violence and targeted assassination are warranted to bring about desired social change. Such a heresy would never be tolerated by the pacifists of Eldath's orthodox clergy; and yet the heretic of the faith feat would allow just such a cleric to still worship Eldath and gain spells.
Daelegoth Orndeir actually worships Lathander, but he believes that Lathander is Amaunator reborn. He does not really worship the dead god Amaunator. He takes the heretic feat because his alignment is more than one-step away from Lathander's. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2006 : 02:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think the point of the Heretic of the Faith/Servant of the Fallen feats is that while everyone gets their divine power from some divine entity, not everyone knows for sure that the divine entity that they get their power from are the divine entity that they worship . . . if that makes any sense.
(snip)
My question persists, even after the publication of Power of Faerun: after death is a Servant of the Fallen counted as "false"? We know from the continuations of the Avatar series that even a lifetime's loyal worship can be blasted by listening to a lying spirit on one's death bed (or death cave), but what of those who faithfully worship a "dead" deity? Do they wind up in the Wall or as petitioners in some living deity's realm?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2006 : 03:01:46
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| Good question . . . I was just about to point out that a Heretic of the Faith may still be claimed by the god that they have heresied, if they so choose, but if not they are considered False. But you are correct . . . no comment on a Servant of the Fallen and what befalls them. They can be raised and ressurected as normal, but I would assume that that means they aren't immediately judged and thrown into the wall, but does that mean they just wander around the Fugue Plain? |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2006 : 07:33:08
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A heretic may likely be judged False. His god will have the chance to collect his soul first from the Fugue, but if the god (or his psychopomp) does not conduct the soul to his patron's realm, then the soul will be called to Kelemvor's city for judgment.
Depending on the severity of the heresy and how harmful it is to the true faith of the god, Kelemvor may sentence the heretic to anything from light duties around the city up to horrific torture the likes of which might make an archdevil faint.
On the flip side, I think that a Servant of the Fallen would be treated differently. For one, he might still be conducted to his patron's realm by servitors who are trying to carry on as if the god were coming back. Assuming the realm has not decayed completely, imploded, or slipped away and lost its connections to the Astral Plane.
If another god has adopted his patron deity's name as an alias, then perhaps that god can redirect the soul to his own plane.
If no psychopomp came to collect the soul, then the question is: does Kelemvor call it or not?
If the answer is "no", then the soul is free to wander the Fugue. It may be approached by devils, no better than telephone solicitors, trying to get the soul to enlist into the ranks of the Nine Hells. The soul may be kidnapped by raiding demons. It might get eaten by Dendar. It might join up with other gangs of wandering souls. It might eventually ossify and become a rock (like the souls in the wall).
It could very well be that without an animating divine spark to sustain it, it may be natural for a petitioner to go inert. If true, then Kelemvor can't be seen as punishing anyone, he would just be stacking the inert petitioners in the Wall to keep them from making a mess of themselves, and help keep out raiding demons to boot.
If Kelemvor calls those souls to judgment, he may find them Faithless and consign them to the wall. He could also send them to the God Island in the Astral where the deity's remains reside. He might also put them back into the kitty of new souls to be reborn again (no evidence for this, just a theory). |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 19:53:24
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Thanks, Gray. That's some yummy food for thought.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Servant of the Fallen or Heretic of the Faith?
