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Munch Bunch
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 18:40:12
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Hope i explain myself ok,
Now i really like the Elminster series read all of them except elminsters daughter (which is on order)
I've read these which he appeared in even though briefly in some,
elminster series
Shandril saga
The Shadows books
I've read other various books
My main question is there any others that he appears in??
also on another question, i was thinking about buying these books
The Kingless Land
The Vacant Throne
A Dragon's Ascension
The Dragon’s Doom
The Silent House
I gather from another reply to a post i made these are the order they run in, and are they a good read ??? thanx for any replys
Mod edit: Moved to the Novels section. 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Apr 2006 19:06:50
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 20:53:36
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| I can't recall every novel El has appeared in but I know he has been in at least one of the Anthologies, Realms of Valor I believe he was in a short story and I am sure he was in best of the realms II since it was the best of Ed Greenwood |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 22:59:02
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If by 'Shadows books' you mean Shadow of the Avatar, you've read the novels by Ed where Elminster appears (apart from maybe a tiny cameo or two that I'm forgetting). You should definitely get The Best of the Realms, Book II: The Stories of Ed Greenwood, which has most of Ed's published Realms short stories, a notable exception being "Elminster at the Magefair" which is in Realms of Valor and The Best of the Realms, Book I. Elminster also pops up in some other novels, such as the Avatar Trilogy, but none of those appearances do justice to the character.
I recommend the Aglirta books if you like the fast-action swords-and-sorcery end of Ed's Realms fiction. I like them. The Silent House is more historical and a little less frantic. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 Apr 2006 22:59:44 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 03:25:34
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| Elminster has appeared in a great many novels, sourcebooks, games, dragon articles, etc... he was not in the band of four novels though |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 04:34:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
he was not in the band of four novels though
Well, he wouldn't be... given that they aren't Realms novels. 
of course , but the poster included them in his post. Maybe it is an example of Ed's so called alter ego, showing up outside of the realms |
Edited by - scererar on 06 Apr 2006 04:35:06 |
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Dremvek
Seeker
70 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 15:41:44
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| He appears in the Avatar trilogy as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 15:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dremvek
He appears in the Avatar trilogy as well.
While that's true... Faraer's early comment about that appearance not doing El any justice works for me as well.
Elminster's character felt rather lacking throughout much of Shadowdale... not at all how he would eventually come to be portrayed.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Apr 2006 15:59:26 |
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Dremvek
Seeker
70 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:15:43
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Ack! I missed that comment by Faraer - Sorry about that!
I agree that the El in the Avatar series has a distinctly different character, but I think anytime you take an iconc character like El and give him to a different author to use, he's going to have a different personality. How does one capture the essence of a character that someone else created?
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 19:28:24
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| With some difficulty, which is why the Wizards books department now avoids it whenever possible. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dremvek
How does one capture the essence of a character that someone else created?
They don't, or rather, they shouldn't.
As Faraer said, it's largely avoided now these days... which is perhaps why we've seen so many new characters and NPCs introduced over the last several years in novels by specific authors who then carry these characters into further novels themselves -- Paul's Erevis Cale is a fine and worthwhile example of a relatively new character whose handled the transition and expansion from his initial introduction.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:44:03
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| looking back at the realms novels, I do believe that these were the first appearances of Elminster in FR fiction(novelwise). He has evolved a great deal since then. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 02:46:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dremvek
Ack! I missed that comment by Faraer - Sorry about that!
I agree that the El in the Avatar series has a distinctly different character, but I think anytime you take an iconc character like El and give him to a different author to use, he's going to have a different personality. How does one capture the essence of a character that someone else created?
It is a shared world. I do believe that any author can use any character. If I remember right, one is supposed to consult on some level at least, as to major changes though. |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 05:41:00
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| I think the authors could use anothers characters especially for a cameo sort of appearence. But I think most of the authors frown on using characters from other authors in large roles. For example I could see an author using Elminster and having him pop in and offer some sage like advice and leud comments and pop back out but I can't see another author using El as a main character and altering him in anyway. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 06:29:10
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
It is a shared world. I do believe that any author can use any character. If I remember right, one is supposed to consult on some level at least, as to major changes though.
While you are technically correct, I disagree in principle. It's not easy for an author to crawl inside the head of someone else's established character and stay true to what has already happened. The Return of the Archwizards trilogy nicely proved that one... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Vainelus
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2006 : 15:38:21
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Well it's nice to know that I am not the only one that felt the Return of the Archwizards portray Elminster and for that matter every other important iconic character that made an appearance poorly.
However, I thought that Elminster's appearance in the Alias and Dragonbait novels was very effective. Of course, it was not the exact same as when Ed writes about him, but I feel that the series did justice to his character.
Also, I do think that the authors have some control over who can use their characters in Realms writing. I distinctly remember Ed at Gen Con's the spin a yarn event will not include characters that are not his creations in the story. He might only do this at that particular event, but I got the impression that authors have veto power. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 02:37:08
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No, authors don't have veto power. WotC editors do. :}
"In the old days" (when TSR's published Realms began), Jeff Grubb was the "traffic cop" of the Realms, and established the "gentlemens' agreement" of asking permission to use the characters of others.
Some played by the rules, some didn't, and there arose a tradition of Books and Games departments fighting for control. I know Ed didn't know anything about Doug Niles using El or Flamsterd in FR2 Moonshaes until he bought a copy, and several Troy Denning books had character uses that were surprises. On the other hand, Ed and Jeff worked closely together when using "each other's" characters, and Bob Salvatore asked Ed about using Alustriel and the Harpells at an early GenCon, in his early Drizzt novels.
I know Ed wouldn't dream of using, say, Erevis Cale unless his creator OR Books editors asked him to.
love,
THO |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2006 : 23:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
No, authors don't have veto power. WotC editors do. "In the old days" (when TSR's published Realms began), Jeff Grubb was the "traffic cop" of the Realms, and established the "gentlemens' agreement" of asking permission to use the characters of others.
Ah, the good old days.
::strikes up a Bobby Burns tune, affects a Scots accent::
Dale Donovan and Master Grubb, the twa were rightous men.
We rend our hair and pray to Bane* to see their likes again!
*Or his current replacement....
quote:
Some played by the rules, some didn't, and there arose a tradition of Books and Games departments fighting for control.
Wait a minute--it's a tradition? I always envisioned it as more instinctual in nature, and have this mental image of a bunch of guy drinking copious amount of coffee and then unzipping to mark their territory.
quote:
I know Ed didn't know anything about Doug Niles using El or Flamsterd in FR2 Moonshaes until he bought a copy, and several Troy Denning books had character uses that were surprises. On the other hand, Ed and Jeff worked closely together when using "each other's" characters, and Bob Salvatore asked Ed about using Alustriel and the Harpells at an early GenCon, in his early Drizzt novels.
As much as I've enjoy writing about Elaith Craulnober, I've often regretted the manner in which I . . . er . . . aquired him. When I wrote Elfshadow, I had no clue that Elaith was anything more than a brief paragraph in the first edition product Waterdeep and the North. Ed has always been exceedingly gracious about this appalling theft, unwitting breach of professional ethics, for which am I grateful.
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 00:45:28
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| I enjoyed the appalling theft, but I regret the name change. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 03:38:35
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I didn't change the name; I merely presented a tantalizing variety of spelling variations.
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 13:04:04
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As everyone knows, the Thorass alphabet just isn't vey good for writing Elven |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 15:10:55
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In 3E Espruar, actually, the u and e are only one stroke away from each other.
My own apparent speling mistakes also represent the new ways to spell the words. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 15:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
In 3E Espruar, actually, the u and e are only one stroke away from each other.
Yikes! In 2nd ed Espruar, the u and e are quite different. I'm sure I saw 3E Espruar, but the experience was probably absorbed by the general state of shock created by the 3E map.
Could you by any chance name a source for 3E Espruar? When I'm signing books, I frequently add an elven blessing in Espruar calligraphy (a feat I plan to put to good use should Letterman ever initiate a segment entitled "Stupid Author Tricks"), but I've been using 2nd Ed Espruar.
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 15:31:17
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| Page 86 in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3rd edition) aka - "The Big Greyish-brownish Book" has a picture showing the alphabets if that's what you're after. If there are more recent sources I've missed them (which has been known to happen). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 17:08:40
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Oh, yeah. I'd blanked that out.
Thanks for the reference.
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2006 : 18:04:57
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| De rien. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Topic |
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Elminster Appearances in books (saga)
