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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 01:01:38
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This is born out of the heroes thread in the Novels section....
http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6440
Basically, in the midst of discussing it, we got around to the question about how much PCs should be allowed to change the cannon of the Realms and how important the role of the average adventurer should be. It's a common criticism that the high powered NPCs of the setting are the movers and shakers of the land alone while others (like myself) consider the PCs to be essentially the individuals who tip the balance one way or another.
For me, I tend to view the High Level NPCs as also fairly restricted by their power and knowledge to some extent. Their responsibilities tie them up (often to their kingdoms) along with their mindsets (often quite crazy).
I tend to prefer large-scale adventures on a related note. I think of the PCs in the majority of the campaigns I run to be legends in the making and I feel that adds to the feel of Toril as a place of Mythology and large scale heroism. I try to not "build up" like I do in other games but instead start the PCs on journeys where they eventually will become great movers and shakers.
On that end, I always have the gods and the Chosen treat the PCs with something of a hand's on approach where they see something the PCs might not even see. Sort of like Luke Skywalker. Everyone knows him even before he does.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 28 Mar 2006 01:14:10
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 15:02:07
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| i tend to give my players no restrictions on what they want to do and what they want to influence. They are themselves, as you say, part of the adventure and mythology of the realms. It gives it an extra level of realism that the players arent caught in a static world but can be part of the dynamics of the world they are surrounded by. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 21:33:20
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Define "change."
If by change you mean change the balance in a hamlet, sure... even at lower levels. Change a city, a nation, a region, a continent... that's harder. It's doable... it's just harder. It also gets a lot of attention from others who preferred it the old way.
So, sure I'm guessing with enough money, power, and influence that the PCs could conceivably destablize Cormyr. That doesn't mean that they can forsee or deal with the consequences of doing so. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 00:12:04
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Charles, IMHO it's not about changing the "canon" Realmslore through PC efforts. Ao knows we had done that countless times in our campaigns. We have a high-level campaign that has been running for twelve years with (mostly) the same characters.
In that particular campaign we have defeated the Unseen, fought and (soon) defeated the Sythisillian Horde (I refuse to adopt the new name ;) and slain its leaders (Cyrvisnea and Sythillis), fought and slain an avatar of Iaychtu Xvim, confronted Shoon VII in his/its lair (and retreated rather hastily), freed the Evil beneath Ascore's central pyramid upon the Fair Faerūn, killed (temporarily) several of the Runemasters of the Twisted Rune, etcetera.
So, our campaign contradicts a LOT with canon/published Realmslore. And yes, THESE characters have been true movers and shakers, sometimes sticking their noses where they do not belong, but also accomplishing great deeds during these long years.
I think the central issue here is about how your PCs relate to the campaign world, and how the world relates to them. Helping a small village in a battle against a marauding band of orcs will earn the PCs respect and fame locally. In a large metropolis, such as Waterdeep or Suzail, probably only those who really take an interest in their affairs and heroic efforts have heard about the characters. Bards, innkeepers and storytellers and those who like gossiping may have heard even of distant events.
As to the role of the characters, it also depends on the characters, and their demeanors. What are their dreams like? What do they want to accomplish in life? What are their motives? How do they see their roles in the world?
I do not necessarily think of my every PC as either heroic or a "legend-in-the-making". In some, there's definitely potential, but some will never make a true difference in the Realms (maybe in their own eyes, though ;)
And you, as a DM, should also be careful about stating that, since it is easy to become too protective of the PCs in your campaigns if you see them all automatically as "future legends".
I agree with you that high-level characters/heroes are restricted by their duties - or, at least, their sense of duty (unless they are evil). Some also might become paranoid during their careers, for example, refusing to accept free drinks and food ("It must have been poisoned. No one would buy a free drink for a stranger. This fellow must be a Cult spy, for sure!")
Yet, I don't think there is "right" or "wrong" here, though. Your Realms may be a lot different from how I see and experience them. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 05:32:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Charles, IMHO it's not about changing the "canon" Realmslore through PC efforts. Ao knows we had done that countless times in our campaigns. We have a high-level campaign that has been running for twelve years with (mostly) the same characters.
In that particular campaign we have defeated the Unseen, fought and (soon) defeated the Sythisillian Horde (I refuse to adopt the new name ;) and slain its leaders (Cyrvisnea and Sythillis), fought and slain an avatar of Iaychtu Xvim, confronted Shoon VII in his/its lair (and retreated rather hastily), freed the Evil beneath Ascore's central pyramid upon the Fair Faerūn, killed (temporarily) several of the Runemasters of the Twisted Rune, etcetera.
So, our campaign contradicts a LOT with canon/published Realmslore. And yes, THESE characters have been true movers and shakers, sometimes sticking their noses where they do not belong, but also accomplishing great deeds during these long years.
I think the central issue here is about how your PCs relate to the campaign world, and how the world relates to them. Helping a small village in a battle against a marauding band of orcs will earn the PCs respect and fame locally. In a large metropolis, such as Waterdeep or Suzail, probably only those who really take an interest in their affairs and heroic efforts have heard about the characters. Bards, innkeepers and storytellers and those who like gossiping may have heard even of distant events.
As to the role of the characters, it also depends on the characters, and their demeanors. What are their dreams like? What do they want to accomplish in life? What are their motives? How do they see their roles in the world?
I do not necessarily think of my every PC as either heroic or a "legend-in-the-making". In some, there's definitely potential, but some will never make a true difference in the Realms (maybe in their own eyes, though ;)
And you, as a DM, should also be careful about stating that, since it is easy to become too protective of the PCs in your campaigns if you see them all automatically as "future legends".
I agree with you that high-level characters/heroes are restricted by their duties - or, at least, their sense of duty (unless they are evil). Some also might become paranoid during their careers, for example, refusing to accept free drinks and food ("It must have been poisoned. No one would buy a free drink for a stranger. This fellow must be a Cult spy, for sure!")
Yet, I don't think there is "right" or "wrong" here, though. Your Realms may be a lot different from how I see and experience them.
well said  The characters should be the most important thing going on in a campaign. However, knowing that other, bigger players are out there, make this wonderful place we visit, more realistic. |
Edited by - scererar on 29 Mar 2006 05:34:34 |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 19:03:01
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I agree that what astregion has said is very well said as well. I have had experience with players deciding not to get involved in certain situations because they knew that certain individuals who oppose them would also get involved, and the situation had a potential to spiral out of control.
It was interesting to see the PC's reactions when they realized that they had just played the part of an Elminster or Blackstaff, where they offer advice, but refuse to directly intervene.
World shakers they have been, but there are always aftershocks to earthquakes. They have become much more wary about which earthquakes they feel are necessary and worth the aftershocks. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
Edited by - Fletcher on 29 Mar 2006 19:03:34 |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 20:34:26
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| I think that changing the world is part and parcel with the game and wanting to be a part of your campaign world. A lot is also dependant on the GM, what kind of plots are run, etc... I'd say however to realize that many of the movers and shakers have been a part of the interwoven fabric of the Realms for centuries or are closely related to those aforementioned influences. (Elminster, Vangerdahast, Harpers, etc..) |
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Can your PCs change the Realms?
