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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 03:11:59
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Do any of you have tips on how to deal with the conflict when a newly published sourcebook includes details that conflict with central aspects of games you're currently running? In my case, I've been running a battlefield campaign based in Impiltur for about a month and a half now. The problem is that I'd done up my own Impilturan ranks, because some of the players had military standing and so forth, but Power of Faerun contains details on the Impilturan ranks. This wouldn't be so bad in and of itself, except some of the players have assigned commander ratings that don't have corollaries in the system presented therein. Help?
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Edited by - Arivia on 15 Mar 2006 03:24:22
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 03:28:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Do any of you have tips on how to deal with the conflict when a newly published sourcebook includes details that conflict with central aspects of games you're currently running? In my case, I've been running a battlefield campaign based in Impiltur for about a month and a half now. The problem is that I'd done up my own Impilturan ranks, because some of the players had military standing and so forth, but Power of Faerun contains details on the Impilturan ranks. This wouldn't be so bad in and of itself, except some of the players have assigned commander ratings that don't have corollaries in the system presented therein. Help?
Go with what you've established in your game. If you invented it, it's going to work for you far better than anything published.
If you ever have a "campaign reset" (all new players or all new characters), use that time, if it really bothers you, to square the details with the books.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 05:42:14
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Sorry Arivia, you'll have to blame me for that one. When Eric sent me his military ranks table, I piped up with the suggestion that we show something different - ala Impiltur.
Eric's suggestions are spot on. If you do want to integrate the 'new' ranks in your ongoing game then you can consider the fact that (as noted in Champions of Valor) Imbrar II is due to attain the throne in late 1374 DR. If your campaign is running before that, you might argue that the new soon-to-be king is exerting some royal 'muscle' and puts pressure on the Lords of Imphras II to reform and modernise the Warsword - especially considering its less than stellar performance in 1373 DR against the Cult of the Dragon. That way, you can have your PCs be given the new ranks correlating with their old ones and also introduce a good reason to hoof it to Lyrabar and do some royal court roleplaying (which PoF will also help you out with). Just a suggestion ...
-- George Krashos
P.S. The Impiltur ranks made the editing cut. Yippee!
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 05:57:20
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Hopefully Arvia wont mind my hijacking her thread abit..
A while ago I asked Ed about Zhentarim ranks but he said he couldnt comment as there was an NDA involved
Are the Zhent ranks in PoF? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 06:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Hopefully Arvia wont mind my hijacking her thread abit..
A while ago I asked Ed about Zhentarim ranks but he said he couldnt comment as there was an NDA involved
Are the Zhent ranks in PoF?
Yep, same table and all.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Sorry Arivia, you'll have to blame me for that one. When Eric sent me his military ranks table, I piped up with the suggestion that we show something different - ala Impiltur.
Eric's suggestions are spot on. If you do want to integrate the 'new' ranks in your ongoing game then you can consider the fact that (as noted in Champions of Valor) Imbrar II is due to attain the throne in late 1374 DR. If your campaign is running before that, you might argue that the new soon-to-be king is exerting some royal 'muscle' and puts pressure on the Lords of Imphras II to reform and modernise the Warsword - especially considering its less than stellar performance in 1373 DR against the Cult of the Dragon. That way, you can have your PCs be given the new ranks correlating with their old ones and also introduce a good reason to hoof it to Lyrabar and do some royal court roleplaying (which PoF will also help you out with). Just a suggestion ...
-- George Krashos
P.S. The Impiltur ranks made the editing cut. Yippee!
oo...Great idea, George. Now I'm off to check campaign dates... |
Edited by - Arivia on 15 Mar 2006 06:02:24 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 06:23:16
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Thanks
Which armys got their ranks detailed other than Implitur and the Zhents? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 15 Mar 2006 06:23:42 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 07:25:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Thanks
Which armys got their ranks detailed other than Implitur and the Zhents?
The Army and Navy of Calimshan, the Purple Dragons, the Shield Dwarves of the North, and the City Guard and City Watch of Waterdeep. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 09:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Thanks
Which armys got their ranks detailed other than Implitur and the Zhents?
The Army and Navy of Calimshan, the Purple Dragons, the Shield Dwarves of the North, and the City Guard and City Watch of Waterdeep.
Excellent
The Waterdeep stuff ill be useful to
Does PoF say what the class levels should be for each rank? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 15:50:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Excellent
The Waterdeep stuff ill be useful to
Does PoF say what the class levels should be for each rank?
They don't; they instead relate to command rating, a concept introduced in Heroes of Battle. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 18:18:18
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I dunno. I can't say I've had this problem and this is coming from the person who has been called a canon nazi and just a pain in the arse. :)
If a new sourcebook screws with my version, which has a long history because of PC's, then I ignore the new info in the new sourcebook. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2006 : 20:05:56
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I run a living Realms, sort of, for about 20 total players. If you think it's hard with one group, wait until you see how hard it is with this many people in different groups, all running around, keeping track of timelines, etc.
Usually, things are easy to write around. Seveiril's Crusade is NOT. (Sorry again for the outburst, guys, sometimes my Aspergers kicks in and I just don't stop myself in time)
Usually, people have a tendancy to say "It's your game, just ignore it, or do what you want with it."
The flaw in this is only single.
It radically excludes new players from the game, especially if they've already read the sourcebooks. My advice is, if you run a game like this, make sure all the changes are documented in a place where most, if not all of your players can read it. Either hand out a document, or, if you have skilled programmers (Of which I am not one) keep a private Wikipedia. (Which we do) |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 21:31:01
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| A side note on keeping a private Wikipedia for your gameworld. If your gameworld is a Forgotten Realms campaign, it must be password locked and private, or Wizards can cheerfully pay you a visit with their lawyers. d20 is OGL. Forgotten Realms is not. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 22:25:28
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| Forgotten Realms is already on Wikipedia... |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 04:40:23
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| That may be, but you can't have your personal game conflict with source material. Or Wizards can come and pay you a visit. There's these little things called copyright laws, Skeptic. As long as it's private, no harm, no foul, it falls under the domain of personal use. The moment you put your personal game information into wikipedia, you get fried. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 04:55:03
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Hmm.. I'm really not sure to understand where the legal issues begin, you are saying that what is on Wikipedia is okay or not?
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 06:23:03
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| its legal if the wikipedia your making is on your private computer and either password protected on the internet or something you can't get from the internet |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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poilbrun
Acolyte
Belgium
17 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 14:29:30
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| Just a small remark: WotC lawyers "can" come and pay you a visit. There are dozens of fansites, forum threads or wiki site that are illegal, but there is a little part of copyright law called "fair use" that might (but then again might not, I'm no US lawyer) protect you even in front of a court. But seriously, do you think it would be good press for WotC to shut down fansites and websites describing your version of the Realms? If you do, you'd be afraid to post aything on this site, since many information available here is derived from cannon. As a matter of fact, it is a lot safer to post your own version of the Realms (which is "only" derivative) than to repost anything official, since you would then be copying a part of their book. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 14:46:04
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quote:
Originally posted by poilbrun
But seriously, do you think it would be good press for WotC to shut down fansites and websites describing your version of the Realms?
I've got a lot of friends in the fanfic community... And, from what they've said, there are in fact (non-FR) authors who happily shut down any fansites they find. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 14:52:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
its legal if the wikipedia your making is on your private computer and either password protected on the internet or something you can't get from the internet
A wiki != Wikipedi. (http://www.wikipedia.org)
So, is the Forgotten Realms project on Wikipedia illegal ? |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 14:52:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by poilbrun
But seriously, do you think it would be good press for WotC to shut down fansites and websites describing your version of the Realms?
I've got a lot of friends in the fanfic community... And, from what they've said, there are in fact (non-FR) authors who happily shut down any fansites they find.
Which is odd to me, because Fanfic is like free advertising.
On topic: If new cannon comes out and it conflicts with something that I’ve already stated as fact in the game, I often put it to a group vote to see what we want to do. Assuming it effects the players at all. If it is something that doesn’t really change anything, I simply inform the players that “such and such book has said that blah is actually X, so it’s being changed. Okay?” Assuming no real protests, it sticks.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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poilbrun
Acolyte
Belgium
17 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 14:56:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by poilbrun
But seriously, do you think it would be good press for WotC to shut down fansites and websites describing your version of the Realms?
I've got a lot of friends in the fanfic community... And, from what they've said, there are in fact (non-FR) authors who happily shut down any fansites they find.
I totally agree with you on that one, Star Wars and Star Trek being prime examples from what I hear. But WotC has never taken that stance until now. From what I can gather from WotC policy, they are trying to get more and more people to play the game and buy their products, so they have created the OGL and D20 STL to encourage other people to publish content compatible with their game, including ex-employees, and have a rather friendly attitude towards their customers (big presence on forums from the authors for example). |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 16:17:25
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| I just want to put out that TSR used to shut down a lot of sites all the time, hence one of thier names was They Sue Regularly. From what I've heard, they were really tight fisted about fan sites. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 17 Mar 2006 16:17:48 |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 21:06:30
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Yes. This is why ours is private and password locked. We actually keep our own Roll of Years for PC events. But you should see some of the stuff one of these days. Apparently, four big battles were all fought on Eliasis 22, 1380. We now refer to this as "The Day that Really Sucked."
And no, I, Mr. DM, did not plan it out that way, it just sort of happened. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 23:05:54
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I generally don't have much problem adapting new canon material to what I've been running, but then again, both of my campaigns are quite long-running, so I've had a lot of practice. Especially since I decided at the outset that it would be one world with two different groups running around in it, so I'm constantly feeding information to one party about (among other things) what big things the other group has been doing.
I've been helped, I think, by the focus of the campaign: ancient empires and their descendants. There's a really large heap of information, much of it misleading or outright false. So it gives me a reason to retcon something ingame if I feel it's worth it. I just throw three more theories about whatever it is at the PC's, one of which is the new canon position, and it's up to them to figure out what to believe.
Some things I've taken unchanged and wholesale (Sea of Fallen Stars supplement), some I've used but moved in position (I already had an old elven empire in the Chondalwood, so I put Nikerymath up in Turmish, and ruled that it was swept away in the tidal wave), some things I've used parts of (I completely changed WotSQ past about Book 4), and some things I've really had to scramble with (my PC's killed Sarya Dlardrageth in Hellgate Keep, so Last Mythal is turning out rather interestingly in my campaign). Finally, there are some things I just ignore completely (I don't like Thayan enclaves and absolutely loath Epic magic, so neither exist). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Canon conflicting with game verisimilitude
