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Razaiel
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 16:13:12
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In Forgotten Realms history, the sacking of Citadel Felbarr took place in 1104 DR, led by the orc chieftain Obould at the battle of Many Arrows. The dwarven fortress was taken by the orcs and renamed the Citadel of Many Arrows. Now, the retaking of Citadel Felbarr took place in 1367 DR led by knights from Silverymoon fighting alongside dwarven warriors. Now between the sacking of Citadel Felbarr and its retaking 263 years pass by.
Now onto my point, in R.A. Salvatore's the Hunter's Blades Trilogy the Companions of the Hall are dealing with an orc chieftain named Obould Many Arrows, who is shamed by his loss of the Citadel of Many Arrows because the orcs fell upon each other in bloody in-fighting. Now this can't be the same Obould that took the fortress in the first place, orcs just don't live that long (even assuming that something doesn't kill them). So who is this orc? I am confused by the apparent disconnect from Realms history and the author's writing. The reason I want to clear this up is that I am running a Forgotten Realms campaign set in the year 1373 DR (Year of Rogue Dragons), and my friend is running a campaign that is also set in the Forgotten Realms, where the main plot is the orc invasion from the Spine of the World led by chieftain Obould. My friend asked me if our campaign would be taking place at the same time and after looking at the timeline I wasn't sure. I was hoping that someone on these boards would be able to help.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 16:21:39
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If I understand what (not who) Obould is correctly, he is a Chosen of Gruumsh. As such it is quite possible that he has lived this long. After all, he survives the battle with Drizzt, rather Drizzt was, if I remember correctly, victorious and left King Obould for dead, but the orc king rose from the battlefield and repeated what had been claimed throught the entire series: "Obould is Gruumsh".
I doubt he is an avatar of the god, a Chosen seems far more likely. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Razaiel
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 16:35:04
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| True, but he is not identified as a Chosen of Gruumsh until all those shamans perform that ritual on him and he becomes nigh invincible. It is possible that he was always a chosen, but it is not stated one way or another. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 17:13:24
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Hello-
I'm wondering if possibly he is the son/grandson etc - and that Obould is a hereditary name that they have stuck with. Similar to wanting to be known for an old-time hero I guess.
Similarly - maybe Obould is in itself a title, possibly translated as "Leader of the masses" or somesuch.
Just a couple of alternate ideas, though the Chosen theory seems just as likely and/or possible.
Dhomal |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 17:35:28
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I'd assume that the original Obould is long dead, and that this is a new orc who happens to have the same name.
Backing this up is the fact that the modern Obould has sons that are alive and kicking at the start of the trilogy -- if he was the original, his grandkids would long since be dead. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 17:42:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd assume that the original Obould is long dead, and that this is a new orc who happens to have the same name.
Backing this up is the fact that the modern Obould has sons that are alive and kicking at the start of the trilogy -- if he was the original, his grandkids would long since be dead.
But who is to say that an ageless, Chosen of Gruumsh Obould would not continue bonking even while his grandchildren were having children. Plus, I think I remember him (Obould) thinking back on the disgrace of him loosing Felbarr... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 17:54:17
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| We've been told before that only the name is the same but they are two different Oboulds. It was either by Rich or Eric over on the WOTC boards, if I recall right. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Edited by - Kuje on 13 Mar 2006 17:55:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 17:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd assume that the original Obould is long dead, and that this is a new orc who happens to have the same name.
Backing this up is the fact that the modern Obould has sons that are alive and kicking at the start of the trilogy -- if he was the original, his grandkids would long since be dead.
But who is to say that an ageless, Chosen of Gruumsh Obould would not continue bonking even while his grandchildren were having children. Plus, I think I remember him (Obould) thinking back on the disgrace of him loosing Felbarr...
Yeah, but I don't recall any other references to offspring, other than his sons. And if it's an honored name that has been passed down from the original Obould, then it would still be a huge dishonor for him to lose the citadel.
I've seen no references anywhere to the current Obould being the original Obould, so it's easiest and most logical to assume this is not the original one. I'd expect it to have been notated somewhere if this guy was the original and was somehow still kicking after 200+ years. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 20:55:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
We've been told before that only the name is the same but they are two different Oboulds. It was either by Rich or Eric over on the WOTC boards, if I recall right.
I was not aware of that, but I guess that neatly answers the question. Have you an exact quote? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 21:04:13
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/manyarrows
quote:
The current Obould Many-Arrows is descended from the first orc to hold that name and seize the Citadel of Many Arrows. From a young age, the adepts of the Citadel noted Obould was fated for a great destiny among his people. Smarter and more intuitive than most of his kind, he completed quests for his father (and king) and for his tribe's clerics before slaying his father and taking control of his tribe. He faced challengers without suffering injuries amounting to more than some attractive scarring. Skilled in the arts of war and capable of fierce rages, Obould became a fearsome opponent in battle. Obould now has four wives (and at least one mistress, the assassin Numath the Serpent) and eight sons, including his heir Urlgen Threefist, the ambitious Scrauth, the cleric Brymoel, and the ferocious Ugreth. He expects the time will come soon enough when he must fight his upstart children to defend his throne, and he is ready for it.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 13 Mar 2006 21:05:07 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 21:18:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
We've been told before that only the name is the same but they are two different Oboulds. It was either by Rich or Eric over on the WOTC boards, if I recall right.
I was not aware of that, but I guess that neatly answers the question. Have you an exact quote?
Kentinal posted it, that the bit of text I was recalling. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 21:58:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ah, I remember reading that now. Thanks for the link. 
See I am good for a few things at least *wink* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 22:53:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ah, I remember reading that now. Thanks for the link.
See I am good for a few things at least *wink*
Really? What are the other things?   |
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Razaiel
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 00:15:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/manyarrows
quote:
The current Obould Many-Arrows is descended from the first orc to hold that name and seize the Citadel of Many Arrows. From a young age, the adepts of the Citadel noted Obould was fated for a great destiny among his people. Smarter and more intuitive than most of his kind, he completed quests for his father (and king) and for his tribe's clerics before slaying his father and taking control of his tribe. He faced challengers without suffering injuries amounting to more than some attractive scarring. Skilled in the arts of war and capable of fierce rages, Obould became a fearsome opponent in battle. Obould now has four wives (and at least one mistress, the assassin Numath the Serpent) and eight sons, including his heir Urlgen Threefist, the ambitious Scrauth, the cleric Brymoel, and the ferocious Ugreth. He expects the time will come soon enough when he must fight his upstart children to defend his throne, and he is ready for it.
Thank for you that, it was most helpful. Although I am ashamed to admit that I didn't find that information earlier. Apparently I was looking in all the wrong places. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2006 : 00:51:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
We've been told before that only the name is the same but they are two different Oboulds. It was either by Rich or Eric over on the WOTC boards, if I recall right.
It was Rich... and Tom Costa expanded upon the original details in the URL Kentinal provided.
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Edited by - The Sage on 14 Mar 2006 00:51:55 |
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Timeline Question
