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Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Winterfox, with the option of completing my resume and going to my FR book to look up their names' spelling (which are deliberately "fantasy orientated"), my choice was clear. Frankly, I'm alittle disappointed you'd bring that up.

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Seriously though, don't we have enough "small scale" adventurers? Why exactly do the books exist except to provide us with information about the major players and NPCs of the realms? They should flesh out those rather than adding to the tapestry.

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I hate the implication that there's professional do-gooders out there except for the PCs.

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Spies, Merchants, Assassins, Priests, and the like are very different from 'adventurers' so to speak.

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Originally posted by Charles Phipps

But yes, while there is room for adventurers. I think that authors should subsume their own desires somewhat to tell stories about underdeveloped characters.

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And frankly, I don't play, I DM so I don't feel the need to molly coddle my players but I think they are the heroes of FR.

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by silvermage


1) Manshoon versus Manshoon in the Manshoon Wars, quite a lot of potential to exploit.

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I would love to see something like this... I think it could even be a series unto itself, with each book focusing on a different Manshoon clone.

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I don't know... It almost has a "Dr. Doom vs the Doombots" ring to it. And Marvel/FF fans should know how that turned out .

Although, if it explored the actual Manshoon Wars as a conflict as well, I'd also be for such a novel.

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See, what I'd like to have is three or four novels. Each one starts with (or shortly after) all of the Manshoon clones wake up. Each book would follow one clone thru the Manshoon Wars, and then focus on their actions after the Wars. How did the clone survive, where are they now, and how did they get there?

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Sounds good... although I'd probably like each of the books to focus a little, at least initially, on how the clones ended up in the places they did before they all wake up.

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And I'd really like it if at least one of the novels focused on a clone other than the official three.

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Also, their interactions with the "real" Manshoon shouldn't form the core of the tales... but rather a background plot. The books themselves, as I see it, should focus squarely on the developments of the clones... especially if they intended to be made into viable NPCs in the Realmslore.




-- In fact, now that I think about this... this isn't the first time you and I (and Steven) discussed our views and wishes on a series of books focusing on the Manshoon Wars . Maybe if we keep talking about it... WotC will take a hint .

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The EXACT cause of the Manshoon Wars, IMO, should remain up to GMs. I've left scattered hints aplenty on at least three or four different causes. And ALL of them are more than happy to lay claim to doing so for political reasons.

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06 Apr 2004
Other ideas were never solidly set. We'd hoped to set Manshoon up as a lurking menace of opportunity and a major wandering threat. Before the M-Wars, he was always up in Zhentil Keep or the Citadel of the Raven plotting away. After the dust-up, he's forced to stay constantly on the run, on his guard, and using up all his carefully hidden away contingency plans in hopes of staying alive another day.

In effect, we turned him from being a wizardly despot and leader into a terrorist isolated and estranged from the terrorist group(s) he founded.

As always, you can do what you will of it, but officially, having the 3 Amigos where they're at works okay. If you need more, I noted other options previously (undead forms, ghosts, possession/mind swapping, etc.)

Remember that he's only a ravening madman out to blindly kill when he's within range of another Manshoon clone, so as long as they stay discrete distance away (and outside of the official eyes), there could be more still (if you so choose):

up in the Tears of Selune/on the Rock of Bral;

perhaps hiding among the settlers of the Borderlands in Maztica;

maybe he's trading magics with the mysterious spellcasters of Kozakura or Shou Lung;

calling in favors with genies could have taken a Manshoon away to the south and al-Qadim;

get the idea?

Have fun, and remember that ALL the disenfranchised Manshoons, while they may want other things, would definitely do anything (aside from revealing themselves gratuitiously and opening themselves to risk) to foul up any plans of Fzoul.....

Steven

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Why the hell is Halaster allowing a Manshoon clone to live with him? And why doesn't the clone go beserk and try to kill everything in the Undermountain?

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>ahem<

Halaster sends greetings and a note: "For the same reason I once delivered a gibbering mouther unto a fellow mage's bed chambers--variety."

Manshoon's note and answer to your query: "Reasons twofold--I am far too well-mannered to go berserk, and I have better things to do than kill the pets of my host, as infinite and oft-regenerative as they are."

Geez, I'm beginning to remember why I stopped writing in the Realms--the random notes dropping out of thin air around me....

Steven
who thinks it's a very good thing the Manshoon of Undermountain isn't interested in establishing a Zhentish trade route through Skullport....but he wonders what he's up to in talks with various and sundry slavers, illithids, and githyanki..... >:)

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Originally posted by Charles Phipps

I understand your feelings Mods but as a note, I appreciate Winter's corrections and I think his opinions are quite valid so don't lock it on any ill will on my account (and I hope he certainly feels the same!).

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BTW, Winterfox, I quite liked Alustriel in Drizzt's novels. She's a Galadriel figure.

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Originally posted by Charles Phipps

As for Alustriel, I think that no character is necessarily one note. Alustriel can't be "sex on legs" 24-7 after all and still rule a country. So I figure that the dignified portrayal in the Salavtore books is fairly appropriate.

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My concept of Alustriel as de facto ruler of Silverymoon has always been glossed over by TSR (and now WotC) for Code of Ethics/Code of Conduct reasons, because I see her as the Realms equivalent of 'the Queen of Courtly Love,' presiding over a Court that amuses itself (along with delighting in wit, new songs, new inventions or clever craftsmanship, and fashions) with dalliances, courtship, and lovemaking. Er, lots of lovemaking. :}

In the same way that real-world kings in some places and times enjoyed droit de signeur [French for: "As the King, I have the right to sleep with anyone" :}], Alustriel takes many lovers for short periods of time, and is one of those rare kind, understanding, warm people who has the knack of staying close, affectionate friends with former lovers, even in the presence of other ex-flames. In fact, it’s quite likely that any meeting of courtiers will contain a majority of folk who have visited the royal bed or baths at one time or another -- and most of them remain fiercely loyal to Alustriel and to her dream of Silverymoon. (In fact, some cynics, such as Torm of the Knights of Myth Drannor, believe she deliberately seduces political foes to transform them into personal friends.) The fact demonstrably remains that to attack Alustriel in Silverymoon will be to evoke immediate defense of her person by dozens of champions who will lay down their lives to protect hers, even knowing she’s the "Anointed of the Goddess" and may not really need their protection.

{snip}

As I said: with very few exceptions, Alustriel remains on good terms with her former lovers, and manages somehow to keep them comfortable with each other (I guess it's like being members of a club one very much enjoys being part of). So they all get along well together. At long-ago GenCons I often ran Realms play sessions in which PCs were sent with an urgent message to Alustriel [a stranger to them by all but reputation] through a secret portal that admitted them to the Palace but removed all metal -- weapons and, er, BELT BUCKLES -- and all enchanted materials [items and garments vanished, spells operating on the bodies of the PCs just melted away] in doing so. Stumbling over their own falling clothing but under imperative, overriding orders to get to Alustriel right away (and bearing a pass that would let them do so), the racing PCs were directed to a certain chamber, and burst into it to discover that it was taken up by a vast, shallow bath filled with warm rosewater and naked people making love. SOMEwhere in all of that sliding flesh was Alustriel. Their mission: find her.

I loved watching players’ faces, right at that moment.

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Originally posted by Charles Phipps

Yeah I've read that Winter, and frankly I still don't think it contradicts R.A's vision.

*shrug*

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Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers

Oh, I don't know. I like to think that when a church of Shar or Cyric has a bake sale, it's an EVIL bake sale.
(Apologies to Mike Myers for snitching his joke.)

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Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

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Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
To quote Achilles, from Troy: "I want what all men want -- I just want it more."

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Erik, I hope you do not mean that abysmal movie...

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Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

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Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers

Oh, I don't know. I like to think that when a church of Shar or Cyric has a bake sale, it's an EVIL bake sale.
(Apologies to Mike Myers for snitching his joke.)

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ROFL

Do I wanna know what a fundraiser for one of those churches looks like?

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Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

Maybe we should ask Wizards to release a FR comedy a la Pratchett

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