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Firhyanda
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Mar 2006 : 13:57:52
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Greetings
Lost Empires of Faerun, Chapter 2, subheading; Mystra's Ban and Epic Magic seem to be the most relevant information regarding this possible plot hook. Please let me know if there is a better reference. We begin our story with Bob all powerful Bob netherease archanist of ridiculous power. Long before his empire collapsed in a smoking ruin of magic destruction bob was working on some true tenth level spells. These spells were completed but he considered them much too dangerous to be left lying around so for security reasons Bob does not put them into his spell book where greedy apprentices, demon’s and or rival spell casters might look for them. Instead bob writes them on near indestructible parchment and puts them in a near indestructible scroll case all covered in oil of timelessness and hides them in his favorite hidey hole. In Bob’s case yonder hallow tree and or some other not so clever but truly remote location.
So here we are some thousands of years later, Bob is long dead, and our band of hapless adventurers TM wander by yonder tree and find Bobs scroll of tenth level spells. So what happens if the party mage try’s to cast said spell from a scroll, does Mystera simply detect the spell being cast from the scroll and sever the mages link to the weave? If so does this severing simply apply to the scroll or is this hapless mage permanently barred from casing spells at all. Could this spell be cast using a use magic device check if so would it immediately be detected by mystera as in the above case? What about a cursed version of one of these scrolls and a read magic spell? Basically for the purpose of a plot hook I am looking for some way within the rules as written for a party to set off a tenth level spell. Any ideas as to how this could happen would be greatly appreciated.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 04:37:13
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"Secrets of the Magister" talks about what happens if mages (and Magisters and Chosen) try and cast 10th-level spells, as does the "Cormanthyr" accessory.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 05:30:45
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It can pretty much be compared to throwing your eyes skyward and muttering, "Oh *please* Mystra, let this work!" If she wants it to work, it works. If she doesn't want it to work, it doesn't (which, I guess makes it different from normal magics not at all). Even if it does work, there'll be some rather hefty consequences. *And* she'd have to take a personal interest. I doubt there's a way to accidentally set one off.
On a side note, as I understand it (and I don't like or use epic magic, or I may be incorrect), epic magic didn't really start getting used until after the Fall of Netheril, when true 10th and 11th level magics were banned by Mystra (interestingly enough, apparently all she did was change their formulas, which from human perspective appeared to be a ban... see Cormanthyr and Secrets of the Magister for specifics, as Krash said). So a powerful spell devised by a Neth would, almost by definition be 10th level. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 11:37:11
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As far as I understood the magic in the "Archwizard Series", after the fall of Netheril, the Weave (scource of magic in Faerun) was divided into the "normal" Weave and the Shadow Weave.
Since the weave was seperated into the two threads, they share the power and as a consequence were less powerful then before (combined).
Therefore the highest level spells (10th, 11th and 12th) didn't work anymore.
Assuming that is Canon, 10th level spells should not work at all, as the weave simply can't support such energy.
Besides, 10th level spells weren't that uncommom in Netheril, so Bob allmighty wouldn't need to hide away his spellbook and scrolls, because he was afraid of everybody else. He could have established a hidden cache though, upon which your PC might stumble.
One more thing, Ad&d 2.5 edition "DM's Option, High level campaign" explains some rules how to cast epic spells beyond 9th level. (called true dweomers). you might want to check this one! |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2006 : 17:35:02
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| Actually, the Shadow Weave existed prior to the Fall of Netheril - see the short story "Trial by Ordeal" by Lisa Smedman in Realms of Shadow. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Akashayana
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2006 : 21:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
On a side note, as I understand it (and I don't like or use epic magic, or I may be incorrect), epic magic didn't really start getting used until after the Fall of Netheril, when true 10th and 11th level magics were banned by Mystra (interestingly enough, apparently all she did was change their formulas, which from human perspective appeared to be a ban... see Cormanthyr and Secrets of the Magister for specifics, as Krash said). So a powerful spell devised by a Neth would, almost by definition be 10th level.
I believe that the Lost Empires of Faerun clears up this quandry. In the chapter discussing epic magic (pg. 43 for you rules-lawyers  ) it is stated that while the Netherese were throwing around their 10th level true spells, elven high mages utilized the more-difficult-to-master epic spells. Apparently epic spells have been around for a long time but they were previously exclusive to the realm of elven high magic.
-Tlazcotl |
-America is the only country in history to go from barbarism to decadence without civilization inbetween. |
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MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 23:03:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Iliphar1
As far as I understood the magic in the "Archwizard Series", after the fall of Netheril, the Weave (scource of magic in Faerun) was divided into the "normal" Weave and the Shadow Weave.
Since the weave was seperated into the two threads, they share the power and as a consequence were less powerful then before (combined).
Therefore the highest level spells (10th, 11th and 12th) didn't work anymore.
Assuming that is Canon, 10th level spells should not work at all, as the weave simply can't support such energy.
The concept of the Weave being split was a theory that Galaeron came up with based on Melegaunt's comments. It was never really confirmed as more than a theory. Since Elves could and did use level 10 spells and rather notable tricks of High Magic after the Fall and some humans used the occasional True Dweomer, such a split would not provide a complete block on the High Powered spells even if the theory was confirmed. I'm not inclined to take that theory at face value, though. I never liked it and evidence does exist for a Pre-Fall Shadow Weave. |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 14:52:39
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quote:
originally posted by MaskedOne
The concept of the Weave being split was a theory that Galaeron came up with based on Melegaunt's comments. It was never really confirmed as more than a theory. Since Elves could and did use level 10 spells and rather notable tricks of High Magic after the Fall and some humans used the occasional True Dweomer, such a split would not provide a complete block on the High Powered spells even if the theory was confirmed. I'm not inclined to take that theory at face value, though. I never liked it and evidence does exist for a Pre-Fall Shadow Weave.
Sounds reasonable, thx a lot for your comment!
There is one thing to consider though, Elven high magic is some kind of ritual magic, which needs several High Mages to work. One Highmage himself couln't cast High Magic. I like to regard the concept of Elven High Magic as a special "gift" to the highly magical race of the Tel'Quessir. True Dweomer Magic is also some sort of ritual magic (atleast accordig to the Ad&d 2.5 DM's Option: High Level Campaign).
Anyway, to think that through, it obviously is possible to tap more magical energy then 9th level's amount. Maybe single person spellcasting would be limited to 9th level, but magic from different scources could be combined to become more powerful.
Therefore I concluded, that the "simple" spell casting of one single Mage should be limited to 9th Level spells, everything else might only be achieved by special rituals.
Maybe a FR-Designer could drop a comment, I would be really interested what they would say!
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'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2006 : 16:59:44
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I have no particular objection to limits on how much power is available to a caster beyond 9th level but I'd probably structure them differently. One of the key points distinguishing Elven High Magic from most human wizardry in old lore was that humans did not typically use community magic as much or as well. That and a handful of True Dweomers were one person spells, though I'd be hard pressed to find people using them that did not already have some form of special favor with Mystra and that weren't Elven.
Admittedly, I have a very distinct ulterior motive and it will cloud my judgement here and on any discussion of spells over level 9. The only official way (that I know of) for most 3.X spellcasters to handle anti-magic efficiently is Epic Spellcasting and I want my Epic Dispellings available. I'll suffer a great many restrictions otherwise since I'm not normally all that powerhungry and most lower level spells will satisfy me but I want access to something that can break anti-magic effectively even if my wizard is inside the anti-magic and in 3.X my options are distinctly limited. |
Edited by - MaskedOne on 20 Mar 2006 04:10:02 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 04:38:06
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| Just a small note about Elven High Magic (at least how it was originally presented in Cormanthyr): there were rituals that could be cast by only one High Mage. They were the least powerful, but they existed. More powerful rituals required more casters, but the lowest level rituals could be cast alone. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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10th Level Scroll Plot Hook?
