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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 02:20:26
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Two players have approached me with the idea of running an evil campaign. I thought this would be very interesting. But also very hard.
I was wondering if anyone here has any experiences they might share. My only concern is that the players will betray each other the second game session and then the campaign I created will be over :(
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And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 02:49:08
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| I'm pretty certain almost all of us have some experience along the lines of players going berserk and killing anything in their path if they are "evil". Try to stress the fact that they are colleagues and should still work together even though they aren't good or neutral. Perhaps reminding them that even those whom many of us would consider despicable still have some morals. For example Elaith Craulnober(sp?) cares deeply for his daughter even though he is just about as evil as they get. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 03:14:39
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The basic problem with two Evil PCs is that yes they will try to kill each other at some point in time. The conflict can result from which is the leader deciding to take a goal that will not benefit the follower enough (in his judgement) to justify the risk.
There are a few ways to get two PCs to stop killing each other.
A leadider NPC that can kill both, though that takes away from RPing to some or a great degree.
A remote NPC that offers sucess reward payment to both, but only both on sucessful completion. Such a quest clearly can not be for an item of power that one PC could use against the other or the hiring NPC. It can not be kill somebody type thing, the NPC would pay for such sucess as promised or kill the party (no matter how many survived) on proof of completion.
Evil can work for a common cause, take ot a Temple of Helm for example, but unless a true friendship developes both PCs will at some point in time seek to kill the other. Friendships clearly can occur that evil PCs will look out for the members of the same order/religion/etc.
Drow mostly evil have built cities so some level of cooperation exists. In part for your game what it comes down to is how much mutual interest the PCs will share as oposed to rebelling from the party, perhaps deciding to kill other evil PC as well. It really depends on how you put the good forces together, how mature as roleplayers (real age does not matter at all of the player, I know some very young adept players and I know some over 40 players being barely worth the deffinition of roleplayer) they are to stay in character and keep that free from real life.
The fear you have that the players will betray each other, if true, is a good indication you do not believe the players will keep their PCs seperate from themselves. Perhaps you meant the PCs as oposed to players, but one thing should be clear before an evil game starts. The PCs are not the players, if a PC sees a reason to stab another PC in the back it has to be because of in game reasons. It can not be because of a bad day at the office, nor can it be because of player knowledge that the first PC to face the Feytroll will most likely die, when the PCs have never seen a Feytroll.
Feytroll I think I just invented, but sending one PC in to wake the Dragon could be as deadly. In all play the PCs should be defied and seprate from the players, mega knowledge that a player has should never be in the game. Oh it does happen it is almost imposible to prevent totally, but playing evil PCs th chances of abuse can break a game apart much quicker. Of course a DM sitting heavy of mega gaming also can sit heavy on a game. This can be wearing of the DM and the players. If you are going to run an evil game you should set clear rules as to how you will deal with mega gaming (and be perpared to back it up) and make sure the players understand that RP might result in one PC might decide to kill the other (that such attack must be justified by prior roleplay) and that the players need to accept this is one aspect of the game they seek and are not to hold the player responseable.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 03:19:09
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Evil campaigns can be a lot of fun. However, the trick is that they should be very focused and not simply excuses to run buck wild --summoning demons, burning down towns, and eating babies.
You also want to avoid as much inter-party conflict as possible. Campaigns end quickly when players are stealing from each other, ratting each other out to the local order of paladins, and selling each others' parents into slavery.
Ideally, an evil campaign will present strong reason(s) for the party to be even more cohesive than a non-evil campaign. The group should really feel that they can't trust anyone else but their companions.
It should also have a strong focus in terms of goals: e.g. establish a new thieves guild in Waterdeep, a Luskan-backed mage guild in Mulmaster, Untherite guerrilla warfare deep in Mulhorandi territory, Church of Tiamat-backed infiltration of the Purple dragons, Shadovar infiltration of Halrua, etc..
Your best bet will almost always be a campaign in which the players are pitted against even greater evils and due to their own alegiance(s) are unable to rely on anyone other than themselves.
I hope this helps,
Sarta |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 05:01:53
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I'm currently running an evil campaign where the PC's are members of the Zhentarim. The campaign has been going since level 1 and the characters are now level 10 without inter-party conflict. I think making the players members of an organization with a common goal and a lawful alignment was crucial in avoiding party conflict.
I wouldn't even try running a game where the PC's are CE or NE. I think the selfishness of these characters would be very difficult to control in a party. And remember, evil people can have friends and loved ones that they care about.
One very difficult aspect of running an evil level campaign is the damage the party can do to your setting when they reach high levels. If they wanted to put a small village to the torch they really can't be stopped, that is yet another reason to go lawful evil and have very specific organizational goals. Controlling party wealth can also be a problem with an evil campaign because the PC's can, for example, by a horse from a simple horse trader (probably commoner), then sneak in at night and kill/rob the buy for the money back. Then they have the horse and the cash.
Yet another problem to consider is, who are the PC's fighting??? Evil often fights evil (such as Zhents versus Cult of the Dragon) but it can be dissatisfying to players and make them feel that they aren't really playing a different style of campaign, instead just the same campaign with different motivations. Evil PC's enjoy fighting against good creatures, but campaign style is generally reactive. Usually it's Evil group does something, good PC's go in and kill them. Evil campaigns are more about disrupting the status quo so it's a bit more difficult. Good creatures don't tend to sack cities/towns or open portals to good aligned planes.
You also lack the run of the mill evil-doing humanoids like orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, etc.. You really don't have good creatures (other than PC races) running around for PC's to fight. Climactic encounters with Angels, Archons, Gaurdinals, and Chromatic Dragons are very cool, but the most common enemies, at least in my games tend to be humans. I think one of the most fun aspects of D&D is the variety of monsters, I feel slightly limited in this regard when running my evil campaign.
I'm simply trying to point out what I perceive as the difficulties of an evil campaign from my experience. Inter-party conflict is avoidable, but it is still difficult to run the campaign. That being said, despite the difficulties my current campaign is going pretty smoothly for the first time ever running an evil game and the players seem to be enjoying it.
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 15:41:15
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Have the party avoid the Chaotic Evil alignment.
I had a great game going where the party was working their way into political power in Cormyr. Arranging marraiges, business deals etc. The party was known for destroying powerful evil monsters like vampires and Wyverns and the like.
But in order to keep a good cash flow they had set up a group of bandits that raided people opposed to their goals. And the party reaped dual benifits. One the bandits raided opponents, and two the party got the merchandise stolen and sent it for resale in Westgate. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 16:22:51
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In an Evil game that I ran a couple of years ago (some of you probably saw an excerpt of that on the Adventuring board), the party bonded together because they each needed each other and shared a common secret that would spell out common doom if it ever came to light. The merchanty/rogue needed the drunken duelist to act as a collections department (for his legitimate business) and a bodyguard (for his illegitimate business). In turn, the drunken duelist needed the merchanty/rogue because he had no mind for sensible things like providing a home for himself, or making certain that he isn't broke halfway through the week. The two drow (favored soul of vhaerun and ranger of vhaerun) needed the merchanty rogue and drunken duelist as contacts on the surface. The Necro-Monk saw the other four as his means to creating a criminal syndicate, and they in-turn saw him as a way to get work.
The use of flaws in evil characters can create a web of interdependence where even though they do not like each other, they are (reasonably) loyal to each other if only for their own benefit.
-Walker |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 04:27:56
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| I usually advise the player to chose something more along the lines of a neutral alignment, if they are wanting to play a more "evil" character. What about a former Zhent, who is trying to change and redeem himself in the eyes of the party or local community. ( a silver marches campaign comes in mind here) where the character has to sometimes be reminded that he can't do those types of things anymore. Anyways, the DM has the final say, But I recommend avoiding it as much as possible. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 10:13:28
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| I have a similar experience to the Ninja's. In my campaing with evil characters I make sure the characters are forced to depend on each other by making sure they all are guilty and making it difficult to recruit NPC they can depend on. This way they are forced to cooperate and look beyond the quick gains of betrayal. If they have each others by the throat, the campaign contiues. |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 07:15:31
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This is really great feedback, thanks!
I was also thinking of having them part of or working for an organization like the Zhents. They say they themselves are trying to come up with a way so that the campaign won't be too chaotic, this mostly has to do with their backgrounds. You can be evil, but still be loyal to someone else for other reasons, I think. They really want to play these evil characters, and since I am bending the rules of my campaign just by allowing evil characters in I may allow them to choose alternative races and things like that, I'll just have to see.
It's going to be hard, but it's also something I wanted to do for a long time. I think it will have to be very carefully planned to prevent the kinds of things you all posted and to keep it interesting. Because like Chosen of Bane said, campaigns are generally reactive. It's a lot easier to say that evil villians are terrorizing a small town in the Heartlands. It's quite different to try to give evil players someone to fight against. I suppose the other evil organizations could make good foes.
Once again, thanks for the input.
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And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 27 Feb 2006 07:16:56 |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 20:18:13
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idea for you...
seems like you're going with a Zhent theme (or at least some of the replies infer it)... Why not use that ready-made Zhent installation in the Mines of Tethymar (fully detailed in Lords of Darkness). They are subordinates there, but function as a SOG (Special Operations Group), and report to the commander there (I forget her name). To add some interesting/unusual mechanics to it, pick up a copy of Heroes of Battle (its more reasonably priced than most supplements these days) and use the various point systems to help them advance in the ranks and provide a bit of coherency. This should also help to keep them on the straight and narrow (or crooked and narrow as the case may be). Add to that all of the notable Zhent NPC's that exist in Realmslore that are generally used as villains, but can now be used more interestingly as bosses/contacts/confidantes and allies and you've got a really good foundation on your hands.
-Walker |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 01:46:12
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If you and your players are up to it, having the party be Cyric worshipping Zhents could make for a fun political campaign. Mix up the intrigue with some "suicidal" missions and it could be a lot of fun.
Depending on your players of course, one of the things I've noticed that players in evil campaigns tend to do more of is to really spend time coming up with strategies. In a typical "good" campaign, players tend to think more along the line of "We're the heroes, what could go possibly go wrong?" and then wing it. Evil campaigns with enough paranoia really encourage strong tactics.
Don't stifle this. Instead work with it and encourage it. |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 09:12:49
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| And make sure to put the players in a situation where they are dependending on each other to succeed. If you want to keep the from killing each other... I think evil campaigns are the most fun to run. Evil characters tend to bring out the darkest fantasies of the players. A pleasure to see how devious and cruel they can be... A beautiful study of the human mind. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 11:03:53
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Wow, you guys are awesome. I like the idea of using the Mines of Tethymar installation, I mean it's already there and good to go if I need it. I never thought of it be to honest.
I think one of them was already going to worship Cyric. I'm going to let them choose as far as their god/race/class goes and then design everything around that. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:03:17
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Ouch! Cyric is bad god for evil campaing so far it goes :P. Cyric is 'me versus the world' mind concept and this is inherited to his worshippers. So if you plan Zhent campaign (or any evil campaign where are worshippers of other evil gods), forget the Cyric because Zhents do not like Cyrics much (and Cyrcis do not like other faiths at all) and they love execute them publicly gorey way as possible.
But a Cyric church spy among Zhentarim ranks and who works in party is possible so playing Cyric in Zhent party is possible. The Cyric worshipping characther msut be skilled in bluffing and be cunning enough to avoid to be detected. This of course lead some point that the Cyric worshipper will kill his comrades somepoint but that is the risks of evil campaing and it can be roleplayed well and can be a good climax ;). |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:31:46
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I’ve never really had a lot to do with an evil game in the realms, at least not one that lasted long. That said, I have played a very group-oriented neutral evil rogue in a party of good characters. All the legends the bards tell about single heroes are almost always about paladins or insanely powerful wizards. The character knew that, to be a successful adventurer, you need a team that you can trust to watch your back. The only real problems that came up were dealing with the fact that my character regarded anyone that wasn’t part of the team as expendable. One of the other players made a low intelligence half orc barbarian/fighter after his other character died. My character just slipped into taking over for the half-orc, making the half-orc his thrall. My character handled all the purchases for the halforc, told him where to go in battle (when he could; the halforc had a tendency to spring into action quickly) and generally used him as a tool. Both me and the halforcs player found this to be a very fun arrangement for our characters, and it kept the halforc from being totally evil, and the evil of my character didn’t really show because he understood teamwork.
I’ve played a number of “space-mercenary” games, sort of like shadowrun, but using the starwars d20 ruleset without Jedi. All the characters were “evil”, as per D&D rules, all money hungry, cold blooded specialists/bounty hunters. These groups ALWAYS worked out perfectly as far as a group dynamic. No one every tried to kill any of the other PC’s (unless it was just too good to be true and you stood to profit from it in a major way and you felt that the person was replacable in your group and wouldn’t affect your long term profits and effectiveness and no one else in the group would catch you OR they were in on the conspiracy.) I attribute this good sense of teamwork for evil characters to the fact that there was no alignment in the game. No where on our character sheets did it say “Evil”. I find that a lot of players see the word evil on their character sheet and decide that it means they need to kill the characters of their friends. And burn everything that they can’t steal.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
Edited by - Jindael on 02 Mar 2006 20:33:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 21:27:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I find that a lot of players see the word evil on their character sheet and decide that it means they need to kill the characters of their friends. And burn everything that they can’t steal.
That's something I've observed before: a lot of players seem to equate evil with being psychopathic murderers. It's not a failing of the game, it's a failing of their own perception. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 21:55:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I find that a lot of players see the word evil on their character sheet and decide that it means they need to kill the characters of their friends. And burn everything that they can’t steal.
That's something I've observed before: a lot of players seem to equate evil with being psychopathic murderers. It's not a failing of the game, it's a failing of their own perception.
Agreed. In addition, I can't help but wonder if it's a backlash against DM's who "force" good on the players. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 22:01:11
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| Honestly, I don't think so... I've seen people do CN entirely wrong, too, reading it to mean that you can be a psycho hose beast one day and a saint the next. I think it's simply a perception issue, nothing more. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Mar 2006 22:01:34 |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 22:15:51
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| Have any of you ever tried to remove the concept of fixed alignments from the game entirely? I have in my game. My players doesnt choose whether they are CN, LE..... I tell them to choose how their characters are and play it. During the game i watch them and looks at whether or not they stick to their grades of good or evil. I dont want character who are good one day and evil the other... Not realistic. But i think the old solution is to simple and difficult to enterpret. More fun for the players to set their own boundries. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 22:52:30
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I don't have any problems with the current alignment system. Sure, it's a bit simplistic, but there are many elements of the game that are like that...
The alignments are spelled out and described pretty well, I think. I don't see that someone's failure to comprehend (and likely, to read the description of) an alignment is a reason to change the rules. I'd explain it a couple of times, and if the player still didn't get it, I'd start docking their XP.
I think it's too simple and well-described to change things for players who can't get it.
I don't like the idea of scrapping alignments for another reason: I have tried playing characters of a certain alignment partially as a challenge to myself. I figure that IRL, I'm somewhere betwixt CG and NG. Closer to NG, definitely, and maybe the occasional bit of LN. I've been known to play a LG character simply for the challenge of playing an alignment that didn't mesh with my own.
And I've never had the chance, but I'd like to play an evil character. What I'd really like is to try being a NE character in a good-aligned party... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 00:02:33
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We have had several "Evil" campaigns, most of them set in Menzoberranzan. In some of them, our characters have fought each other when their motives/goals have clashed. Once, we almost even strangled one of the players for real, when his mage kept on drawing cards from a Deck of Many Things while the others slept... he drew the 'Death' card, which resulted in TPK (minus the mage, who drew 'Wish'  ) as we tried to save his sorry ass from a Minor Death 
Usually we have found enough common ground and goals for working together as a group. Sometimes, our characters have even eventually found loyalty and friendship towards each other, even the Chaotic Evil ones.
Once, we had two Lawful Evil characters, and my "Charismatic-and-aiming-for-the-Leadership-Feat" fighter/ranger got fed up with the rogue for not following his orders and advice. They stood 40 feet apart, when he decided to settle matters. So he drew his swords, saying: "Hey, we have fought over minor matters long enough. Since both of us seem to find it hard to work together, I think we need to settle the issue about who's in command here. Draw your weapons, and don't hold back." Then he started walking towards the rogue, swords in hand. It took a single poisoned arrow from the rogue to bring my character down  Yet he stood by his promise, and let the rogue issue orders from then on... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 00:24:33
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| I think that a good thing to have players keep in mind is that just because it says 'evil' on your character sheet, it doesn't mean that you're Hannibal Lecter/Michael Jackson. I remember playing in an "evil" game once and it ended up being a 6 week analysis of varying degrees of depravity (during which I was totally disgusted and ended up threatening to leave the game if we didn't start a new campaign). I asked a few of the other players incredulously why they were doing the thing that they were doing. Two of them answered "This is my opportunity to do all of the things I can't in real life because I'd get arrested." Ever since then I have been convinced that at best these guys are closet pedophiles, and have shunned them for five years. Echh! I get sick just thinking about some of those games... |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 01:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I think that a good thing to have players keep in mind is that just because it says 'evil' on your character sheet, it doesn't mean that you're Hannibal Lecter/Michael Jackson.
Yup, that's my point. The reason most evil campaigns fail is because most people choose to focus on the more negative aspects (if you will) of evil... They seem to forget that evil can come in many flavors.
It's like in the Dragginglance books: the dragonarmies in the War of the Lance played the CE card, and they were defeated because they were too busy working at cross-purposes. The later Knights of Takhisis realized that you could be evil and still have honor, discipline, integrity and order -- and they were quite effective.
Chaotic evil, lawful evil. Both were evil, but they were far from the same. Most players need to learn that lesson. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 12:54:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos
Have any of you ever tried to remove the concept of fixed alignments from the game entirely? I have in my game. My players doesnt choose whether they are CN, LE..... I tell them to choose how their characters are and play it. During the game i watch them and looks at whether or not they stick to their grades of good or evil. I dont want character who are good one day and evil the other... Not realistic. But i think the old solution is to simple and difficult to enterpret. More fun for the players to set their own boundries.
I have, with very mixed effects. The most common phrase at the table was “Well, we don’t have alignments, so…” etc. However, in the start of the game it seemed to work out well. But as soon as I threw in some moderate difficulty, the players seemed to want to go to extreme (evil) end to solve the problem rather than do some good old fashioned detective work and honest monster slaying.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 19:08:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
The basic problem with two Evil PCs is that yes they will try to kill each other at some point in time.
Evil does not always end up as Stupid.
And, just coming into conflict doesn't mean that they'll automatically start cutting each other up. They may plot, but that doesn't mean they must kill each other and take each other's stuff. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 01:52:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos
Have any of you ever tried to remove the concept of fixed alignments from the game entirely? I have in my game. My players doesnt choose whether they are CN, LE..... I tell them to choose how their characters are and play it. During the game i watch them and looks at whether or not they stick to their grades of good or evil. I dont want character who are good one day and evil the other... Not realistic. But i think the old solution is to simple and difficult to enterpret. More fun for the players to set their own boundries.
I actually just stick to the alignment rules as they're written. Players choose their alignments at character creation, but I keep track of them -- and modify them if their repeated behavior warrants. If they're playing a paladin, monk, or some other class that requires that they be of a specific alignment, I'll give them several warnings to encourage them to stick to alignment. So far, I've only had a few alignment shift and none have done so in such a way that it would prevent them from playing their chosen class.
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Scot Storm
Acolyte
29 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2006 : 04:18:48
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Hello great keepers of the scribe of Candlekeep,
I would like to post on this topic because I like the idea of evil campaigns in Dungeons and Dragons. I am an advid fan of war army conquest and evil factions battling for supremecy. I believe in alignments and using your alignments to give your character depth and a perception of what is to come. I have read the above threads and know that there should be more to the game than slaying your Co-PC. Recently I have come up with the idea of writing a fantasy role-playing book and it's more of a hobby than anything but the interesting thing is like I heard before was the interpersonal play between characters, secret agendas and hidden motives. It does nobody good if you try to kill your companion. Alignments serve a purpose. I think they define our soul and if we are evil we are prone to killing, stealing, rape and greed. If the cahracter of characters are evil(chaotic or lawful) they serve a purpose a higher power no matter what they are even if it's themselves if not maybe they need to be in the monster manual.
Storm |
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poilbrun
Acolyte
Belgium
17 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 15:08:29
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I very much like to play evil characters, but I have never been able to do so in a group, only in my 1-on-1 campaign .
The way I play my character is not that different than the way I would play a good character, except that to him, the end justifies the means.
I arranged it with my DM to have the character go from good to evil during the campaign: basically, instead of killing an enemy, I made him prisoner and he was put to prison, only to escape and get revenge on me by killing my family.
That's where the downward spiral began: I still want to save the world and help people, but I don't show mercy to my enemies and take the easy way out of every situation.
Examples:
Low-level adventure, basic goblinoid dungeon, and the usual dilemna, what to do with the females and youth; no dilemna at all, youth will grow to become raider and females reproduce too quickly, BAM, fireball in the room.
Recently, I needed an object of power that was in the hands of a wizard (probably neutral) to defend the kingdom; he agreed to let me have it in exchange for some help (usual way to introduce sidetreks); sorry, I need it now, and it would be in your best interest to help me defend the kingdom; he refused, he died. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2006 : 07:24:58
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| i just started a small campaign where most players are elves adn good. i play a sun elf wizard who secretly is in league with fiends and follows the path of siluvanede. its awesome trying to hide my evil from other players adn the rest of society. at higher levels evil campaign could focus on trying to corrupt younger characters (i made a staff of siluvanede that can turn people into demons if you want to see the writeup just holla!) |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Evil Campaign
