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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 20:38:48
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After reading about teh batrachi battling giants in the Candlekeep Compendium IV I was wondering what role do giants have in the Realms now adays?
I never really hear that much about different kidns of giants...
in fac the only two i can recall is that blue giantess in the FRCS adn the giantess in the Hunter's Blade Trilogies.
In either case they dont seem to have clans or real organization... so what are these creatures up to?
What would a town do if 3 or so giants approached?
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"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 20:50:42
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Actually, the Frost Giants of the Shining White are supposed to be organized under a king, Orel the Greyhand, but his daughter, Gerti Orelsdotir is essentially in charge of the Frost Giants of Shining White. They aren't the only group of Frost Giants in the north obviously, but a big faction. Gerti is the same giantess in the FRCS and the Hunter's Blades trilogy.
If you can, check out the 2nd edition resource Giantcraft. It deals with a lot of Giant history in the Realms. Also, the Twilight Giants books by Troy Denning alludes to a lot of giantish history, and Hartsvale, far north of Anauroch, seemed to have been a hotbed of giantish activity.
Oh, I almost forgot, Darkhold was originally a giant fortress, and Hill Giants still serve as soldiers for the Zhents there. |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 23 Feb 2006 20:51:31 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 21:19:03
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| I've kinda pictured Shining White as being the more advanced, "progressive" giant society, worshipping Auril and trying to present themselves as a serious nation. I have been thinking if I ended up having a campaign in the region that might be one of the plot threads, the tention between the "civilized" frost giants from Shining White, worshipping Auril, being opposed by the "traditional" frost giants that worship Thrym, and the really off the wall savage frost giants that worship Kostichie. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 22:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Actually, the Frost Giants of the Shining White are supposed to be organized under a king, Orel the Greyhand, but his daughter, Gerti Orelsdotir is essentially in charge of the Frost Giants of Shining White. They aren't the only group of Frost Giants in the north obviously, but a big faction. Gerti is the same giantess in the FRCS and the Hunter's Blades trilogy.
If you can, check out the 2nd edition resource Giantcraft. It deals with a lot of Giant history in the Realms. Also, the Twilight Giants books by Troy Denning alludes to a lot of giantish history, and Hartsvale, far north of Anauroch, seemed to have been a hotbed of giantish activity.
Oh, I almost forgot, Darkhold was originally a giant fortress, and Hill Giants still serve as soldiers for the Zhents there.
yeah thats my point! basically the only giants that are given any prominence is actually one giant group, that of Gentri.
Hmm where is that detailed, about darkhold being created by giants... this means the architecture would be very interesting! |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 22:25:00
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I know that its been mentioned in a few places, though imediately I think that the reason it sticks out in my mind was from the old 2nd edition Castles Boxed set. It had maps of Darkhold and some details and plot hooks related to it (and oddly enough, a castle from Greyhawk and from DragonLance, since the product was AD&D and not specifically FR).
So yeah, most of the architechture should be huge. Giant opening gate, huge steps and the like. I don't remember if the four towers around the central keep were added later, but I think they were and as such are more "human" sized. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 04:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
After reading about teh batrachi battling giants in the Candlekeep Compendium IV I was wondering what role do giants have in the Realms now adays?
I never really hear that much about different kidns of giants...
in fac the only two i can recall is that blue giantess in the FRCS adn the giantess in the Hunter's Blade Trilogies.
In either case they dont seem to have clans or real organization... so what are these creatures up to?
What would a town do if 3 or so giants approached?
Roles for giants in the Realms these days? Hmm...there is one giant serving in the special forces of Waterdeep called Grey Force Grey, if I am not wrong. Giants these days in the realms seem like mercenaries for hire, since I read the Hunter Blades Trilogy and the YoRD book 2, as long got worthy benefits, they will take it.
But in the wizards website, there is supposedly a ancient city once occupied by the ancestors of the Frost Giants, located deep and Far North of the High Ice:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20020626x
Maybe the giants civilisation is quite glorious afterall.
Well your last question "what if giants approach a town?" Naturally four options for the town inhabitants:
1) Run like heck/Retreat from the town.(natural option)
2) Put up a fierce resistance.(pragmatic option)
3) Hold talks to see what are they doing here and identify their purposes and reasons for being here.(wise option)
4) Do nothing.(the worst option) |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 24 Feb 2006 04:59:10 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 05:16:19
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Before the dragons were ascendant as Faerun's dominant species, giants were. They had a kingdom known as Ostoria, which was ruled by the terrestrial decendants of the giant god Annam, the ruler of the giant pantheon. There were several houses of "true giants", Ruk was the founder of the Hill Giant line,Obadai was the founder of the Stone Giant line,Ottar was the founder of the Frost Giants, Masud was the father of Fire Giants, Nicias was the founder of the cloud giants, Vilmos of the storm giants, Dunmore the wood giants, and Lanaxis was the father of the titans. Each of these sons had a kingdom on Faerun at one time, populated by their offspring. Lanaxis built a fortress known as Voninheim that was the capital of Ostoria for a thousand years, and the kingdom was split into fiefdoms between the brothers.
Othea, Annam's wife, had offspring with other gods on the sly, creating ogres and trolls (with Vaprak), and other "Giant-kin" (Firbolgs, fomorians, etc). After all of this upheaval, the giants went to war with the dragons . . . and well, considering there was an age of Dragons, you can guess how that turned out.
Long story short . . . there could be anicent giant ruins anywhere in Faerun. |
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TymoraChosen
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 05:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Before the dragons were ascendant as Faerun's dominant species, giants were. They had a kingdom known as Ostoria, which was ruled by the terrestrial decendants of the giant god Annam, the ruler of the giant pantheon. There were several houses of "true giants", Ruk was the founder of the Hill Giant line,Obadai was the founder of the Stone Giant line,Ottar was the founder of the Frost Giants, Masud was the father of Fire Giants, Nicias was the founder of the cloud giants, Vilmos of the storm giants, Dunmore the wood giants, and Lanaxis was the father of the titans. Each of these sons had a kingdom on Faerun at one time, populated by their offspring. Lanaxis built a fortress known as Voninheim that was the capital of Ostoria for a thousand years, and the kingdom was split into fiefdoms between the brothers.
Othea, Annam's wife, had offspring with other gods on the sly, creating ogres and trolls (with Vaprak), and other "Giant-kin" (Firbolgs, fomorians, etc). After all of this upheaval, the giants went to war with the dragons . . . and well, considering there was an age of Dragons, you can guess how that turned out.
Long story short . . . there could be anicent giant ruins anywhere in Faerun.
I think this is the linK: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/3633/dawn.html |
May tymora's blessings be heaped on all |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 06:18:37
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| Or even better, the old supplement Giantcraft is all about Giants in the Realms. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 06:20:36
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| Which is where my incoherant rambling came from, lol. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 07:11:17
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| Heh, I think my eyes might have slid past those ramblings. Early morning and all that. Yada-yada-yada. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 08:58:27
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| While it's been a while since I've read the series, the Twilight Giants trilogy by Troy Denning has a lot of interesting giant material concerning Firbolgs, Verbeeg, and a variety of true giants. I agree that recent novels and supplements have not focused too much on giant lore (though there may be a bit or two about it soon). |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 24 Feb 2006 08:59:02 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 13:00:45
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| Hm . . . more giant lore eh? Thanks for the heads up Eytan! I love giants. They don't get as much respect, but especially in 3.5 where they can easily have class levels assigned to them, they seem like a staple "high level" opponent with dragon and fiends. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 16:11:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Hmm...there is one giant serving in the special forces of Waterdeep called Grey Force Grey, if I am not wrong.
Harshnag the frost giant serves as a member of Force Grey/The Gray Hands. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 10:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Dunmore the wood giants, and Lanaxis was the father of the titans.
Wood Giants? I have never heard of them.
Ps. Where in the realms are there Titans? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 11:07:53
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| The Titans withdrew to Arvandor when Ostoria fell, and wood giants were also known as Voadkyn, and were accepted as true giants until the others found out that they too were the product of Othea messing around, and thus they were driven out by the True Giants. I can't remember if Voadkyn have 3.5 stats yet. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 15:59:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I can't remember if Voadkyn have 3.5 stats yet.
Yes, in the MMII. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 18:58:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The Titans withdrew to Arvandor when Ostoria fell
Phahh! Cowards. I`ve heard people say they are the most powerful of the true giants, and they just run like sissies. I expected a lot more of them than that. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 19:10:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Hmm...there is one giant serving in the special forces of Waterdeep called Grey Force Grey, if I am not wrong.
Harshnag the frost giant serves as a member of Force Grey/The Gray Hands.
I loved it when I first read about Harshnag. Something about picturing a frost giant in plate armor that was a good guy really caught my attention.
Of couse, I also loved the plot hook in the City System book that dealt with the non-evil but drunk and disorderly Hill Giant prince and his entorage. Some of my PCs ran into them WAY back when, and started trying to subdue them, since they got the jist of the idea that these weren't raiding style giants, and plus, when they realized they were taking subdual damage themselves, they figured it was because they weren't just "evil monsters."
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2006 : 23:12:34
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| I would love to see a Giant sourcebook along the lines of Libris Mortis. But from an FR stanpoint, is Giantcraft still worth it? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 00:34:28
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I would love to see a Giant sourcebook along the lines of Libris Mortis. But from an FR stanpoint, is Giantcraft still worth it?
If giants feature as a regular part of your FR campaign, then yes... I'd say it's worth it. Plus, it shares a signifcant amount of both regional and racial lore for the giants that you won't find elsewhere.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 01:51:44
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| I am very fond of Giantcraft myself. I find that I reference it for lore quite frequently, more than I would expect. I definitely think it is worth it. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 05:20:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I am very fond of Giantcraft myself. I find that I reference it for lore quite frequently, more than I would expect. I definitely think it is worth it.
Imagine how good it would have been if it had been a tad more realmslore oriented.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 07:07:27
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The Giantcraft book is a little bit of a mixed bag with mostly good parts and some bad. Most of the bad points have to do with clarity, but if you use Troy Dennings Giants trilogy as back-up most of these elements will become clearer. The language part I will not comment on though; but I think that would seem less corny for a reader from outside Scandinavia.
The book has a few minor weaknesses when it comes to Realms lore (a bit to general, as are Dennings books), but definitely worth the price for most readers. If you are a fan of giants the book is a must. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 07:10:19
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For all sad words of tongue and pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been..." |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 08:21:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
The language part I will not comment on though; but I think that would seem less corny for a reader from outside Scandinavia.
I was statting a high priest of Annam at WotC boards and I noticed the language, it's very similar to English, do you know what language it is? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 09:08:31
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The language is a hodgepodge of various modern scandinavian tongues ( mainly Norwegian) with some old Norse, fantasy words and a large amount of complete nonsense (such as the method of counting and much of the pronouns). It can maybe give some of the "feel" to readers not using these languages, but to me it is at best amusing.
I am looking at it now; I had forgotten how bad this is, for example garbage = garasje; thats Norwegian for garage . |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 13:52:44
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The Titans withdrew to Arvandor when Ostoria fell
Phahh! Cowards. I`ve heard people say they are the most powerful of the true giants, and they just run like sissies. I expected a lot more of them than that.
IMO the problem with the titans in the Realms is a problem that has existed since 1E (similiar to the firblog problem)...and that is there are actually three types of titans...
the "elder/greater" titans locked up in Tartarus (the orginal "greek-god" titans like Chronos (sp?))...
the "lesser/planar" titans that are described in the monster manuals/compendiums over the years, which are really toned down/weaken elder titans created for the D&D game so players can battle/befriend titans
and the practically undiscussed 3rd titan, the "Realmsian" titans discussed in Giantcraft, the children of Lanaxis who fled the Realms to the outer planes (Arcadia) and eithor became the "lesser titans" or were the lesser titans(in Realms mythology)...a fact that doesn't really make sense as the "lesser titans" have to be a race almost as old as the greater titans...so more likely they bred into the lesser titans and were hybridized into extinction...
personally I'd like to see a toned down "Realms Titan" seperate from the planar lesser titan...something similiar to the (messed up IMHO) mountain giant of 3E |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
Edited by - Kalin Agrivar on 31 Oct 2006 13:55:59 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 13:54:06
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True, the Jotun language of the Giants of the Realms may appear at first blush to be a rip-off of scandinavian tounges.
My own personal explanation is that Norse myth is riddled with giants. Jotunheim was even one of the worlds that Yggdrasil touched. Thrym and Surtr had a strong presence in Norse mythology. This suggests a high level of contact between their two cultures. Some of the other giant gods might have been present in Norse mythology under other aliases. It would then be only natural for the languages to be similar.
The Giants of Faerun were born of Annam and Othea, they didn't evolve their language, it was taught to them by their godly parents. If the Jotun deities were already speaking a language that was related to germanic/scandinavian languages at the time they interloped into Faerun, that would go far to explain why Jotun is so similar.
Or conversely it could have been Frost or Fire giant settlers of earth (from Faerun) who taught the Norse peoples the language of the giants. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2006 : 20:58:50
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quote:
I am looking at it now; I had forgotten how bad this is, for example garbage = garasje; thats Norwegian for garage .
 BTW I was laughing when long ago story about Baba Yaga (Slavic) was released |
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Edited by - Marc on 31 Oct 2006 21:01:05 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2006 : 15:54:15
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There is also a decent population of Wood Giants in the Chondalwood, they form a united front with elves and satyrs against Chondathan exploitation of the Chondalwood (they also are fighting with a large orc clan from the Chondalwood, at least I think it's orcs, it's a bit foggy, see the Vilhon Reach boxed set for details, free download from Wizards)
I'd also include Fire Giants in any non-Red Dragon controlled volcanic regions (and in many cases I'd make it a decent fight between the two) the same for Frost Giants and White Dragons, Fog Giants and Blacks, etc etc
I'd put Giants in any remote locations where humans (humanoids) couldn't really sustain themselves and due to several factors they don't interact with humanoids much (superiority complex, fear of human expantion into giant realms, the difficulty of trading goods with humans "What do you mean? You call this a great sword? Looks like a toothpick to me.", etc) |
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Giants
