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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 20:19:13
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the following is something i posted on the farthest reach post but i think it got overlooked by most because it was a long thread. if the moderators want to strike this off my record as a post thats ok, i'm more interested in answers. thank you.:
i have a quick question relating to rich baker's approach to handling the Returning thus far: it seems to me (again as i have mentioned in my welcoming post i am a new reader to the realms, only about 5 or 6 books under my belt)that the elves possible returning and refounding a kingdom/settlement/whatever, is a BIG deal in the realms from what i have grasped from reading the last mythal books and other elf related realms lore, so, are these changes sanctioned by all realms creators/editors/whatever, before a lone author can do something like this? and do you think this will not conclude in the final book, leaving other authors to continue adding their bit to the idea of a Returning? i really enjoyed the first two books, but it seems to me "the final gate" would have to be like 700 pages to wrap it all up nicely. and as i have read in other posts regarding this series a lot of my fellow and more learned candlekeepers have issues regarding the pacing and crammed content so i'm interested what you all think about this. wow, so much for a "quick question"
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 20:30:50
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From the begining, WAY back in 1st edition in the Old Grey Boxed set, the main theme was that Myth Drannor was in a way, the last straw, and when the Elven Court in Cormanthor announced that they were in Retreat and going to Evermeet, the feeling was that elves were a fading race that had once been very important and made significant impact on the Realms, but that eventually they would be gone. Of course, dwarves were also noted as being in Decline, since many of their northern fortresses had been destroyed and had lost many dwarves in battles with giants and orcs and goblins.
The 3rd edition FRCS already mentioned that the elves were coming back to the "mainland" and the thing that I think in funny is that the FRCS, which is set in 1372 DR, says that the Retreat is over and that elves are starting to come back. Now we have the Last Mythal books that are set in 1374 DR that has elves saying that the Retreat is over, and that elves are coming back.
So in essense we have a trilogy explaining something that was suppose to have started two years earlier happening two years after it was more or less explained to have happened. In that regard, yes, the company, designers, and authors are likely on the same page with the Return since it seemed to be one of the cornerstones of the 3rd edition Realms.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 23:19:55
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| I don't think it'd be a big deal if the elves made a new settlement for themselves, but I don't expect them to go back to their age of expansive kingdoms and empires. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 05:53:04
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first off, my thanks to KnightErrantJR for the quick 101 lesson. that was great! and i agree with Rinonalyrna Fathomlin. i can't see them returning to an age of cultural dominance or just dominance overall. but it would be nice to have a stronger elven presence back on the "mainland". i'm just curious to see what rich does with fflar and severil whose characters i enjoyed more than the araevin segments of the story. with a character like fflar, i would love to see authors write more about his glory (or not so glorious) days in myth drannor and such to give his character more depth. if that were the case, with an origin of such greatness as aluded to in the prologue of "forsaken house" and where the last mythal books seem to be taking him, he could grow to be a new favorite sword wielding elven hero of faerun. well, that's what i hope for anyway... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 05:56:40
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| It would be interesting to see if the common elves across Faerun find out that Fflar is THE Fflar. While I am sure many elves know that ressurections are possible, its a whole other thing to have a fallen hero of Myth Drannor come back to life after a generation without him (an elven generation, that is). |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 06:00:12
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| another good point KnightErrantJR...see, the possiblities with this guy are endless |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 09:28:13
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| For some reason, I think he will in some way perform self-sacrifice (in a heroic manner of course), thus returning to Arvandor to find his family and all, while at the same time ensuring that the elves of Faerun regain a foothold. |
Edited by - silverwizard on 30 Aug 2006 16:03:55 |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 12:53:34
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"Fos some reason, I think he will in some way perform self-sacrifice (in a heroic manner of course), thus returning to Arvandor to find his family and all, while at the same time ensuring that the elves of Faerun regain a foothold."-silverwizard
i think that too, but only of severil. the ending of "farthest reach" makes you feel like fflar has to put his past behind noticing that his wife had taken a new husband and was buried with him instead of fflarand questoning what his experience in Arvandor was like. this could lead to some plot twisting, i know, but it also sets him up for a clean slate on life. severil has this kind of "last ride" feel about him. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 14:37:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
It would be interesting to see if the common elves across Faerun find out that Fflar is THE Fflar.
Agreed. It'd be a memorable moment of utter disillusionment. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 15:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
It would be interesting to see if the common elves across Faerun find out that Fflar is THE Fflar.
Agreed. It'd be a memorable moment of utter disillusionment.
I'm not so sure it would be disillusioning... If they know of Fflar, they know that he literally gave all to save elven lives. I'd actually be more inclined to follow someone knowing that they were a legendary hero that had given so much of himself to the people. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 17:00:50
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Wooly, with all due respect I think you may have missed the point of my little quip. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 23:20:55
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hey everyone. i don't know if anyone posted this but here is the cover of final gate!
(http://www.o-love.net/realms/covers_large/pic_las3.jpg)
looks like a wounded Severil and pretty obviously Ilsevele with some vrocks and a hezrou. good stuff! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 23:31:54
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| I've seen it before, and I don't much care for it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 23:56:49
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| everyone is entitled to their own opinions, "and i think its hella-tight" (in my best teen girl squad voice) |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 02:32:40
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Something's very wrong with her posture. Her legs, in particular. Why does her armor, uhm, leave her underarms exposed, anyway? Isn't that kind of a vital spot?
And the hair's scary. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 25 Feb 2006 02:37:38 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 05:02:36
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And Severil's face is...eww.
And he is the leader of all those elves... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 05:17:54
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Yes, the armpit is a rather vital area, and one where it's easy to kill someone. It's also been historically very hard to effectively armor (suits of plate mail, for instance, had only chain mail and no plate under the arms), especially if you want to retain the fluidity archery requires. That's why archers tended to be in leather armor at the most.
Note, however, that I'm not, necessarily, defending the picture. With the skill elves have been proven to have creating very fine chain, and their penchant for archery, one would assume they would have figured a way around that problem.
On the third hand, though, I can't help but mention that her armor is pretty close to the modern target area for a fencing foil. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 12:23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
And Severil's face is...eww.
And he is the leader of all those elves...
Yeah, what's with the trend in fugly elves? First Agent Elrond (the man can act, but he does not look like an elf, half or otherwise!), and now this. Good grief. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2006 : 20:32:52
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Agreed--heck, I don't even think that the "fair" Isevele even looks that pretty. And on the whole, the cover has a very fuzzy and indistinct look to it.
The Farthest Reach cover was so much better. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 02:33:20
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geez Rinonalyrna, i get it, you don't like the cover. i'm starting to think you have a personal vendetta against everything i post.  |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 04:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by dannyfu
geez Rinonalyrna, i get it, you don't like the cover. i'm starting to think you have a personal vendetta against everything i post.
I for one have enjoyed the first 2 novels and look forward to the third. While not the most detail oriented trilogy, as a far as character development goes, it is still a good read. |
Edited by - scererar on 26 Feb 2006 17:36:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2006 : 16:13:09
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| i'm just kidding aroundi can't help my new yorker sense of humor when i've raised by brooklynites i'm as harmless as a baby pech. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 23:41:11
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quote:
Originally posted by dannyfu
geez Rinonalyrna, i get it, you don't like the cover. i'm starting to think you have a personal vendetta against everything i post.
No, no, don't take it personally. I'm just no fan of the Last Mythal trilogy, and while the cover art of the series isn't that bad, this new cover happens to be the worst in the bunch. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Feb 2006 23:41:47 |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 04:36:49
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| it's all good Rinonalyrna, we are all family here. that's why i love this site. everyone can state their opinion, kid around, and all in all just have a good time talking about our shared love of the realms. i am thrilled to be a part of this community! |
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alarion
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 19:53:11
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I was wondering about the elves and their rulership after read the trilogy The Last Mythal by Richard Baker. My point is, nowadays in the Realms there are just the Realms of Evermeet, Evereska and the New Cormanthyr (and lots of elves spread across Faerun), with its own representive form of govern. But it is said that Queen Amlaruil is the ruler of all elves. So, the rulers of Cormanthyr (Ilsevele) and Evereska (Lord Duirsar) are vassals of the queen?
I really donīt think so, as I see these realms more like allies, but I donīt understand how can be a monarchy for all the elves (Amlaruil Moonflower) with no power.
And what about the ancient days of Faerûn? Who was the ruler of the elves? Or better, since when did King Zoar rule over the elves?
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"What we do in life echoes in eternity" - Maximus Decimus Meridius |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 22:06:16
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| Never much cared for the idea of one person being ruler of everyone of his/her race, but that's just my opinion. Everyone seems to have their own idea about how much authority Amlaruil has over each individual elf, but I think the best answer is that she doesn't have constitutional power over every single elf outside of Evermeet--she's more of a respected, spiritual leader to them. Although again, I can't speak for every single elf here, as there are probably plenty of elves who don't think much about her at all. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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alarion
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 23:03:30
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I agreed with you. In The last Mythal Trilogy we can see how hard is just to rule over the elves of Evermeet. I wonder the rest. But in the days before the Retreat how was the relationship between the Council of Myth Drannor and the King Zaor in the Elven Court?
And do you know since when King Zaor rules the elves? |
"What we do in life echoes in eternity" - Maximus Decimus Meridius |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 23:09:01
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quote:
Originally posted by alarion
I agreed with you. In The last Mythal Trilogy we can see how hard is just to rule over the elves of Evermeet. I wonder the rest. But in the days before the Retreat how was the relationship between the Council of Myth Drannor and the King Zaor in the Elven Court?
And do you know since when King Zaor rules the elves?
I can't give exact dates off the top of my head (they might be in the Evermeet novel), but Zaor ruled Evermeet for about 400 years (I think). He's been dead now by assassination for about 30 years or so, but even before then he seemed to have lost interest in ruling and his wife sort of "took over" for him while he was content to play around with his garden.
As for the relationship between the Council of Myth Drannor and Zaor? That's easy, because by the time Zaor was King of Evermeet, Myth Drannor had fallen. Don't know what the remaining "Elven Court" in Cormanthor thought about Evermeet, to be honest. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Feb 2007 23:10:15 |
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alarion
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 23:27:11
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Ok, I think to buy the Evermeet: Empire of Elves to find out some of these questions.
Now, to talk about the novels properly, I really thought the final book runs too fast in the end and lack lots of information about the formetion of the new kingdom of Cormanthyr. Does Srinshee appear to delivery the Crownsword? Seiveril was buried in the Vale of Lost Voices with his father? And lots of other questions... Pity that Baker decided to finish the book earlier than he should...
Now, where is Lamruil city of Auseriel? |
"What we do in life echoes in eternity" - Maximus Decimus Meridius |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 23:50:57
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quote:
Originally posted by alarion
Now, to talk about the novels properly, I really thought the final book runs too fast in the end and lack lots of information about the formetion of the new kingdom of Cormanthyr.
I agree. Not that I like the whole concept anyway, but if you're going to do something, be complete about it.
quote:
Now, where is Lamruil city of Auseriel?
No one knows--yes, it's supposed to be a secret realm, but none of us outside the setting know, either, and we aren't likely to know anytime soon. Lamruil's city is the product of a different time (I mean in the terms of what direction the setting is going in), and WotC seems to have taken a different path in what to do with Faerun's elves, as represented most prominently by the "lovely" Last Mythal trilogy. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Feb 2007 23:51:47 |
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questions regarding the last mythal (spoilers)
