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Oakenstaff
Acolyte
2 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Feb 2006 : 23:49:04
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Hello to all.
I've read a number of Forgotten Realms novels and enjoyed them. But I have a question. Do any FR novels feature as the lead character a traditional Paladin as the hero?
It just seems like whenever a Paladin is used in a fantasy book, they are always presented as being unpopular pompous know-it-alls. But do any FR novels featuring a Paladin as the main character treat him or her with respect and as a true hero?
For me, at least, it would be a refreshing change to read a story like that.
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2006 : 23:53:40
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| Dragonbait, from the Finder's Stone trilogy for one. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 00:01:22
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Holly Harrowslaugh in Finder's Bane was a pretty upright character, though she made mistakes.
Neylessa Shendean, though she only had a fairly small role in the books, appeared to be well loved by her soldiers in the Shadows of the Avatar books (she is the leader of the Mistledale Lancers).
While they haven't been bursting with personality, the revolving door Order of the Aster Lathanderites in the Last Mythal books haven't been arrogant or pompous, just good (if a bit boring) soldiers against evil.
Expanding from strickly books to FR "fiction" in general, Priam Agrivar from the Forgotten Realms comics was a great character as well.
And of course there is Lord Peirgeron of Waterdeep.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 00:02:42
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Holly Harrowslaugh in Finder's Bane was a pretty upright character, though she made mistakes.
Neylessa Shendean, though she only had a fairly small role in the books, appeared to be well loved by her soldiers in the Shadows of the Avatar books (she is the leader of the Mistledale Lancers).
While they haven't been bursting with personality, the revolving door Order of the Aster Lathanderites in the Last Mythal books haven't been arrogant or pompous, just good (if a bit boring) soldiers against evil.
Expanding from strickly books to FR "fiction" in general, Priam Agrivar from the Forgotten Realms comics was a great character as well.
And of course there is Lord Peirgeron of Waterdeep.
Thornhold features several paladins, although you might not like any of them. It was a very nice story though.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 00:07:18
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Well, there is the Double-Diamond-Triangle-Saga, which has a few paladins (Whathisname Kern and Miltiades) as main characters, who were originally from the "Pool of Radiance" books.
"Thornhold" features some paladins, but I think that book showed us all how stupid paladins can be  .
And there is the case of "The Threat from the Sea"-Trilogy, but naming the character would be a huge spoiler.
Can't think of any other novels at the moment...
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Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 01:13:20
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There's a paladin character in the old FR comic, too. (He was originally in the AD&D comic, but passed out of that title and later joined the other one).
Priam Agrivar was not a pompous know-it-all... In fact, among other things, he was a recovering alcoholic. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 01:56:13
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| The pools of radiance trilogy also has a couple of paladins, Miltiades and Kern I believe . The Clerics of Tyr within the trilogy( I forgot the name of the specific order, if any) act as holy warriors, similar to paladins. |
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 12:45:26
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| The main character from the Threat from the Sea trilogy was a paladin (or atleast became one durning the series). |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Oakenstaff
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 04:44:07
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| Thanks everybody for the recommendations! Looks like I've got some good reading to do! So many books, so little time.... |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 09:04:39
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| Two to three years of constant reading should do the job |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 12:54:10
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| Try the Counselors & Kings trilogy. One of the protagonists, Matteo, is -- in EC's words -- a paladin, for all intents and purposes. He's far, far from being Lawful Stupid. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 13:00:48
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you know outside of Pools of Twilight Im hard pressed to think of an FR novel where a Paladin is a leading character.
War in Tehtyr has an Orog Paladin |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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wwwwwww
Learned Scribe
116 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 23:32:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Oakenstaff
It just seems like whenever a Paladin is used in a fantasy book, they are always presented as being unpopular pompous know-it-alls.
Ah, yes, the good 'ol pigeonhole stereotype of the paladin. It really is irritating. Paladins can be so cool. Why does every writer have to make them so stupid? |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 22:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
The main character from the Threat from the Sea trilogy was a paladin (or atleast became one durning the series).
Not only does the main character become one, but he's aided by one of the most relaxed, comfortable and understanding paladins I've ever come across in fantasy fiction. A far cry from the pompous prig you can encounter in the original 'Baldur's Gate' PC game, for example. (I remember with sly fondness the moment I removed him from my party (which also contained a certain female drow character) in order to accommodate Xan, only to have him announce his disgust at having to consort with evil creatures, turn on his erstwhile companions and get hacked to death for his trouble.  ) |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 23:02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Try the Counselors & Kings trilogy. One of the protagonists, Matteo, is -- in EC's words -- a paladin, for all intents and purposes. He's far, far from being Lawful Stupid.
I heartily agree with this recommendation. He even rides a horse called Cyric, so he can't be all that bad. The interesting thing about Matteo is you see him grappling with the moral complexities of the situations he finds himself in - there's the sort of principled morality that makes paladins potentially interesting, without the preachiness and/or desire to impose that belief on others that makes them pour that potential down the plughole of narrow-minded dullness. (+1, probably.)
Heck, just buy the series anyway. It's fab. |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2006 : 23:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by J D Dunsany
quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
The main character from the Threat from the Sea trilogy was a paladin (or atleast became one durning the series).
Not only does the main character become one, but he's aided by one of the most relaxed, comfortable and understanding paladins I've ever come across in fantasy fiction. A far cry from the pompous prig you can encounter in the original 'Baldur's Gate' PC game, for example. (I remember with sly fondness the moment I removed him from my party (which also contained a certain female drow character) in order to accommodate Xan, only to have him announce his disgust at having to consort with evil creatures, turn on his erstwhile companions and get hacked to death for his trouble. )
I liked the other Lathanderite paladin, but wasn't particularly fond of J... Jherik? J something, the protagonist. He angsts way too much, and the author manages his character in the most heavy-handed way possible. The romance, in particular, made me cringe for the sheer corniness.
Come to think of it, the character -- and his romance, and his designated love interest -- reminded me a lot of Drizzt. |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2006 : 00:35:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I liked the other Lathanderite paladin, but wasn't particularly fond of J... Jherik? J something, the protagonist. He angsts way too much, and the author manages his character in the most heavy-handed way possible. The romance, in particular, made me cringe for the sheer corniness.
Come to think of it, the character -- and his romance, and his designated love interest -- reminded me a lot of Drizzt.
I know what you mean about J. But he's young and 'troubled' (he has a pirate for a dad and a ghost for a mentor, iirc - not exactly a 'stable' upbringing, it could be argued), so maybe angsting is only to be expected. And, if I'm being completely honest here, it was the romance with Sabyna (along with the interesting development of the relationship between Iakhovas and Laaqueel (?), the malenti priestess) that kept me turning the page during the trilogy far more than the supposedly 'epic' fight sequences. (Which got a little repetitive after a while.)
(Maybe I like corn!  )
The fact that J's patron deity turns out to be [spoiler] when all the signs were pointing to it being a more sea-based deity was a big letdown for me. As was the fact that the whole issue of J's relationship with his father was not even remotely resolved by the end of the trilogy. I do know what you mean about Odom treating his central character 'heavy handedly', though - particularly during the middle section of the trilogy where J's relationship with Sabyna becomes needlessly complicated.
Moving back to the point of the thread, there are probably better examples of paladins in the novels, although 'The Threat From The Sea' is still an interesting example of the calling and development of a paladin, albeit not a particularly subtle one... |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2006 : 02:11:23
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Oh, I share your sentiment, actually: I read the trilogy for Laaqueel and nothing but -- without her, I'd have thrown the books across the room and thence into the wastebasket. She was the only character worth reading in the whole sorry, bland ride, and her relationship with Iakhovas was far more interesting than anything else between J and Sabyna, or J and his father.
quote:
The fact that J's patron deity turns out to be [spoiler] when all the signs were pointing to it being a more sea-based deity was a big letdown for me.
Me, too. When it turned out to be, well, that, I just went: "Whiskey tango foxtrot?" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 23:08:05
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| The paladin Bars from Ghostwalker. He is forthright and chivalrous, but those qualities are never written in a heavy-handed fashion. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 18:23:52
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| I think Gareth Dragonsbane and his court are featured in "The Year of the Rogue Dragons" trilogy, but none of them is the main character. |
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quajack
Seeker
86 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2006 : 18:01:15
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| The Paladin Corran from Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor is not smug at all. In fact, he is as much of a popular, unpompous individual as you're likely to find anywhere in the Realms. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 02:53:20
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| Ghostwalker has a fun secondary character, Bars Hartwine, who is a paladin belonging to the Knights in Silver. He's definitely not a stick-in-the-mud paladin. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 03:08:14
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| I definately liked Bars. And it was interesting to see a paladin battering people with two maces as well. |
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Volo
Seeker
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 05:12:06
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| I can't quite remember if he was a paladin or 'merely' a knight, but Helm, from Elminster: the Making of a Mage was very much an example of how to play a good knightly-type without being preachy. He's also a good example of how a Lawful Good character can work outside the offical laws of the land when he has no other choice. |
Volo's misunderstood. He's not an idiot. He's a FLAMING idiot! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 15:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
Ghostwalker has a fun secondary character, Bars Hartwine, who is a paladin belonging to the Knights in Silver. He's definitely not a stick-in-the-mud paladin.
Agreed...I mentioned him in a previous post... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2006 : 17:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I definately liked Bars. And it was interesting to see a paladin battering people with two maces as well.
Three cheers for Combat Style feats (CW) and Lightning Mace. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 05:04:38
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| Bars companion was not also a paladin was he? I can't recall his name right now for some reason. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 06:05:37
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| Considering Eric described him as "too much of a rogue" for the Knight-Errant of Silverymoon Prestige Class in another thread I'd say no. He was a knight, though. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 03 Mar 2006 06:05:55 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 14:51:35
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| Consider also that in the novel, only Bars is actually described as a "paladin", the other two (Arya and Derst) are simply refered to as knights. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 15:55:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
Bars companion was not also a paladin was he? I can't recall his name right now for some reason.
WARNING: very minor spoiler here:
My guess is Derst Goldtook is a rogue/fighter and he does inadvertantly or intentionally blunder and hint that he may have been or may be associated with the harpers, if not a member. |
Edited by - Sarta on 03 Mar 2006 16:08:41 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2006 : 19:51:40
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quote:
Bars companion was not also a paladin was he? I can't recall his name right now for some reason.
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Considering Eric described him as "too much of a rogue" for the Knight-Errant of Silverymoon Prestige Class in another thread I'd say no. He was a knight, though.
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Consider also that in the novel, only Bars is actually described as a "paladin", the other two (Arya and Derst) are simply refered to as knights.
Bars is, indeed, the only paladin in Ghostwalker. Arya isn't, for fairly good reason, and Derst really isn't. He's far too independent (ahem. "chaotic") to bind himself to one particular path. He's also not a knight-errant -- my editor told me, in no uncertain terms, that that particular branch of the order doesn't accept rogues. . . at least rogues who are, first and foremost, rogues.
This is not to imply, of course, that rogues can't be -- or even make poor -- paladins. I'm a particular fan of the Shadowbane Inquisitor class from Complete Adventurer, which is a rogue/paladin crossing. Though those would be strictly ordered and focused on the good of humanity (ahem. "lawful good") rogues.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 03 Mar 2006 19:54:28 |
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Paladins in Forgotten Realms books
