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MadRat
Acolyte
Russia
9 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 20:55:31
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Looks like I will DM or play or both :) in a Forgottens Realms campaign, with its high level and epic parts going around the legacy of an ancient past of Faerun. So, I'm interested in some things:
How can someone create a Mythallar in a modern Realms? I have read Lost Empires of Faerun, Netheril: Empires of Magic and lots of other books, but I still have a lot of questions:
1. Is it possible at all to create a Mythallar (not a shadow one) after the Fall of Netheril? By rules of epic spells, it seems, you can create almost anything, but how about weakening of the Weave after The Fall?
2. Will Mystra (or Chosen of her) interfere with such attempts to create a mythallar? (IMHO, Mystra won't, but Chosen will, but I need more opinions at that).
3. There in the Realms someone can find lore needed to create mythallar. I think. most of the Netherese NPCs won't give such a secret to anyone and I doubt that such lore can simply lie in a dark corner of a cave. At least, unless that cave is home for some phaerimm...
4. That prerequisites and caster level is nesessary to create a mythallar?
5. And, finally, can mythallar and enclave, similar to Netherese (and to Shade, of course, but without using shadow weave) be created by a nonevil person/group without blasting half a Realms trying to prevent its creation or steal such a secret?..
Any opinions on that questions are welcome, but, of course, "canon" lore with links and quotes is preferable.
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The sword of truth is forged by the hammer of reason. |
Edited by - MadRat on 08 Feb 2006 21:03:27
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 21:33:42
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Epic magic rewrote the rules, Mystra does not prevent Epic magic (she just prevents 10th level and higher spells). Some discussion about Epic magic leads to discovering a way to cast spells as powerful as 10th level or higher. So indeed in modern day FR yes a mythallar can be created though the use of Epic magic if the spell caster can craft the spell needed. The problem you face if you are going to allow the spell is how much it will cost to design, wat if anything to will cost to cast the spell.
The Chosen should not object to the spell being cast either, though they might opose the faction that develops such an Epic spell.
As far as designing the spell, access to Nether Scrolls could help, but is not required (after all those scrolls taught 10th level and higher spells and Epic Spells are less then level 10 per the rules) but might speed reseach time in crafting the spell. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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MadRat
Acolyte
Russia
9 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 20:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
So indeed in modern day FR yes a mythallar can be created though the use of Epic magic if the spell caster can craft the spell needed. The problem you face if you are going to allow the spell is how much it will cost to design, wat if anything to will cost to cast the spell.
So it that simple? Spend some gp, xp, and time and you get a mythallar? The Mythallar is a minor artifact, after all. And if Mythallar can be crafted by the use of an Epic spell, how such spell should be crafted? I'm really don't know how to set the cost and DC for such a spell. Maybe there are some guidelines somewhere? |
The sword of truth is forged by the hammer of reason. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2006 : 20:57:47
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It is easy to say that is all that is needed.
I would craft mythallar creation with seeds of Transform and Ward as a start, I would have to enhance those seeds.
quote:
An epic spell is developed from smaller pieces called seeds and connecting pieces called factors. Every epic seed has a base Spellcraft DC, and every factor has a Spell-craft DC adjustment. When a desired spell is developed, the spellcaster spends resources and time to assemble the pieces that make up the epic spell. The base Spellcraft DCs of each seed are added together; then the DC adjustments of the factors are added to that total. The sum equals the final Spellcraft DC for the epic spell.
Could make the DC in the 40 or 50, which would require a very high level caster. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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TymoraChosen
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 02:30:27
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Hmm..creating a mythallar? If one finds creating a mythallar troublesome especially dealing with the high cost, not to mention to be a super high level caster. Maybe I can suggest that one seek out the fragments of mythallar that may remain here and there in Netherese ruins, for if one can gather sufficient fragments and have the ability (seriously I don't know if there are any guidelines to repairing or restoring mythallars especially when they are fragmented.) to restore the fragments to a complete one, this might cost a fraction of what is needed to create a brand new one or seek old lore on creating mythallars. Who knows there is an sunken (in the sand or sea) netherese enclave with an intact but inactive mythallar, all one needs to power it again but mythallars seemed to involve a lot of magic as they suck in magic and disperse it over the enclave so as to keep it aloft, but what I read from Netherese Empire downfall, the surviving enclaves never "fly up" again but landed safely once magic was restored but from what this seems, I think mythallars probably need 10th or higher level Weave spells to "fly", if the mythallars never need 10th level higher spells to power it, then I would wonder why the surviving netherese enclaves shortly after the empire's fall never "fly up" again.
The Shade Enclave mythallar looked like a special case, it seemed probably reliant on the Shadow Weave so can fly, from what I read in the Realms of Shadow.
I certainly believe some archwizards who founded their own enclaves may have a clue to creating a mythallar, archwizards like Telamont, Iolaum(rumored to be alive in some sort of way).
But creating a mythallar seemed like a very big project, and summons a lot of energies into its creation. Magic sensitive creatures or those who can physically see the workings of magic will likely be drawn to the area where the project is done, and not neccessarily they may be friendly. |
May tymora's blessings be heaped on all |
Edited by - TymoraChosen on 11 Feb 2006 02:32:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2006 : 06:08:32
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The three cities that weren't destroyed were caught by Mystra. I don't believe that it's every been stated how she caught them -- did she reactivate their mythallars for a moment, or did she cast a seriously enhanced featherfall, or something else?
A mythallar is basically a giant magical battery. I'd imagine that the crafting of the physical mythallar would be relatively simple -- it's the magical side that's the tricky part. It's kinda like a wand: before spells are cast into it, it's just a stick of wood. So I'd not imagine that finding the remains of an existing mythallar would be worth the effort (because all existing magic ceased when Mystryl was slain, any mythallar remnants would be non-magical).
Having said that... Fairly intact mythallar remnants might be found in six places: the two cities that fell into the Sea of Fallen Stars (though maybe not from the one that tumbled), the enclave rumored to be in Tethyr's Firedrake Bay, and the three in the cities that survived the Fall.
The cities of Deep Netheril may have had mythallars, but those were likely destroyed in the explosions that shattered those cities. Skullport was originally a Netherese enclave, so their may be an intact but non-functional mythallar tucked away down there, somewhere.
And of course, there's the two that are still functioning: Shade's damaged one, and the one in Opus/Selunarra. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 16:13:32
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>>And of course, there's the two that are still functioning: Shade's damaged one, and the >>one in Opus/Selunarra.
Where's this Opus/Selunarra at? I'm still reading Midnight's Mask and I know one of them that fell into the sea of fallen stars is mentioned there, and I knew of Shade, but I'd never heard of this one. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 16:36:36
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>And of course, there's the two that are still functioning: Shade's damaged one, and the >>one in Opus/Selunarra.
Where's this Opus/Selunarra at? I'm still reading Midnight's Mask and I know one of them that fell into the sea of fallen stars is mentioned there, and I knew of Shade, but I'd never heard of this one.
It was first mentioned in the Netheril box set and it has info in Lost Empires of Faerun. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 16:58:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>And of course, there's the two that are still functioning: Shade's damaged one, and the >>one in Opus/Selunarra.
Where's this Opus/Selunarra at? I'm still reading Midnight's Mask and I know one of them that fell into the sea of fallen stars is mentioned there, and I knew of Shade, but I'd never heard of this one.
It was first mentioned in the Netheril box set and it has info in Lost Empires of Faerun.
It resides outside the Material Plane now. Selune relocated the city to her plane, the Gates of the Moon.
And I for one... hope that it remains there  .
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 17:26:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It resides outside the Material Plane now. Selune relocated the city to her plane, the Gates of the Moon.
And I for one... hope that it remains there .
As much as I dislike the flood of Returns we were getting for a while there, I would like to see Selunarra return -- mainly because I don't like the Shades, and would like to see that situation balanced out a bit more.
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MadRat
Acolyte
Russia
9 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 22:28:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The three cities that weren't destroyed were caught by Mystra. I don't believe that it's every been stated how she caught them -- did she reactivate their mythallars for a moment, or did she cast a seriously enhanced featherfall, or something else?
At least one source I read stated that all mythallars exploded during Karsus Folly.
(But in the "Neverwinter's Nights: Shadows of Undrentide" computer game a mythallar was found and activated and even a Netherese city was lifted in the sky for half an hour :)
But I don't think this computer game is a good source of information.)
quote:
A mythallar is basically a giant magical battery. I'd imagine that the crafting of the physical mythallar would be relatively simple -- it's the magical side that's the tricky part. It's kinda like a wand: before spells are cast into it, it's just a stick of wood. So I'd not imagine that finding the remains of an existing mythallar would be worth the effort (because all existing magic ceased when Mystryl was slain, any mythallar remnants would be non-magical).
Agreed on that.
And if finding a piece of mythallar wont't help, that else can be done? I think, creation of a mythallar must be an epic quest, not just a question of maximizing your spellcraft. |
The sword of truth is forged by the hammer of reason. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 22:48:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MadRat
I think, creation of a mythallar must be an epic quest, not just a question of maximizing your spellcraft.
You basically have two choices, Epic Magic which could become a quest for material and/or knowledge or call the mythallar an artifact which can not be made by mortals (only a deity can make an artifact, and I am not even sure they are allowed to make them, however the DM can always make them.)
As DM you certainly could require 1000 caster levels or something like that, a co-opertive circle as High Elven Magic used in 2nd Edition. 3rd Edition has rewritten how magic works. Epic Magic in effect replaces Elven High Magic and replaces 10th level spells with the new system in which Epic Magic can do more damage then what the Nether or the Elves did in the past. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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How to create a Mythallar in modern Realms?
