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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 04:12:18
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I opened this thread; http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=582291
In WotC. I basically inquire about lore about Moonblades because I plan use Weapons of Legacy rules on them and I am planning at this moment give a one to a player. I have a plot reason why blade was forged around start of Third Crown War and it need to be treated as Moonblade (despite the blade is around three thousand years older than any other moonblade). So I wonder can Moonblade profiency be reforged into a older magic weapon whit magic?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 04:30:57
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Well, as I see it, moonblades were the blades made at the behest of Corellon to choose the ruler of Evermeet. Only moon elf families were to claim them, and if they didn't develop along the path to show the the moonfighter in questions was suppose to rule, then it was to develop powers along a different path that suited the moonfighter and those in its line of succession.
All of the powers of the moonblade should be available to a moonfighter that can claim the blade, since that is part of the point of the weapon.
I guess I am wondering why it has to be a moonblade, becuase by definition, what you are describing isn't a moonblade. It may be another powerful elven sword, but a moonblade is a pretty specific thing. Essentially they are artifacts that grow more powerful over time as more moonfighters claim them. While I can see similar but more limited weapons (along the lines of a WoL type weapon) such a weapon would not, by definition, be a moonblade. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 04:40:42
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Err the boards that should not be named are a major problem for me because of thier coding, I think I have 4 posts there.
That said, you already have a few answers already.
The moonblades were created at the end of the Crown Wars, so clearly there can not be one before the Dark Disaster. A blade of power certainly can have been formed far before the end of the Crown Wars. Such a blade can not have the Elven leadership quilities that the Moonblade was designed to confer. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 10:38:40
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Well, reason is that the blade works in exact way like Moonblade, it's powers increase by each death of premier wielder and it haves somewhat dark past (hint of the plot; Vyshaan crafted weapon) and it COULD be mistaken as Moonblade because the very nature of the weapon had taked a disguise as one. So, most normal and even grander divination spells (expect epic ones) would reveal that in quality wise the sword is a Moonblade and it does not reveal nothing about the two first wielders (the ones who had lived the two last Crown Wars).
But I just wonder can it be possible that some ancient elven crafters KNEW beforehand how craft Moonblades alike weapons (after all, time before Crown Wars and during Crown Wars was developed some epic wonders of magic and magecraft) but not having Corellon's blessing or purpose? |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 10:40:12
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| As note I checked the needed time line what I aim for is the craft year around 10,900 according Faerun; Lost Empires time line regarding Crown Wars. So sword would be about nearly crafted two centuries earlier. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 12:32:45
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Only moon elf families were to claim them
Where source did this gender rule come from? |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 12:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Only moon elf families were to claim them
Where source did this gender rule come from?
How is family a gender rule? |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 15:47:49
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Only moon elf families were to claim them
Where source did this gender rule come from?
As i recall, it is personality that decides the wielder. And it just so happens that so far only the moon elves had been able to wield the blade. But as i recall from Evermeet: Island of Elves that other elves could wield them, but had not to date been able to. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 16:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Only moon elf families were to claim them
Where source did this gender rule come from?
As i recall, it is personality that decides the wielder. And it just so happens that so far only the moon elves had been able to wield the blade. But as i recall from Evermeet: Island of Elves that other elves could wield them, but had not to date been able to.
How many gold elves tried to claim a blade and died that day? I have forgotten. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 18:41:26
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Okay, let me phrase it this way, all of the gold elves that demanded to claim them died when they tried to. The cleric of Corellon told them that none of the gold elves would be able to claim them. Some demanded to try anyway. According to Elaine Cunningham, in her questions forum, if you are going to go by what SHE wrote about them, only moon elves can claim them. If you want to change that, then thats fine, but its not how the original intent was.
If I remember correctly, the Starym Moonblade is a corrupted artifact, so it doesn't really count for these purposes, since we know now that Arilyn's blade was damaged, otherwise it wouldn't have allowed a half-elf to claim it.
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 19:57:26
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I see, my player plays a moon elf and his grandancestor is also moon elf and also the second wielder was reported to be a moon elf. But whole plot is this;
Blade was forged by the Vyshaanti archmages, whcih were guided by Malkizid who teached them a fell magics. They forged a blade from rare Starmetal material, to make it near invulreneball to harms of time. They designed a epic spell which demanded a alot soul power, at least 130 HD amount of soul energy at minimum. Of course no sane mage would be able finnish such spell nor any single elf had that much HD so direct soul drain was plain impossible. But they designed the blade to drain the WIELDERS souls and store them into the sword, where they would be refined and stored as single chunk of 130 HD soul power. After blade would reach that limit, it would signal to all Vyshaanti high mages that weapon is full and where it and wielder exactly are.
The epic spell in question is a very powerfull epic spell, the spell whihc produced Dark Disaster. They gived the blade to one of their champions as gift, a mage marshal who was also a archmage and bladesinger (35lvl person). The person was not aware of the blade's nature, so he campaigned alot wars whit that blade and thanks blade's nature it becomed suddenly a legacy item and started develope grand powers.
The mage marshal becomed called as 'Elfbane' thanks thousands of elves what he slew whit his tactics and personally and taked a somewhat twisted pleasure from it. He eventually died and his wicked soul was stored into the blade, for his dismay and surprise! Then around -9,000 a moon elf noble found the blade, the noble was wicked politician who had silver tongue and hided the nature of the blade whit all costs (a 25lvl carrier)! He even slew a moonblade carrier (a political rival) and destroyed also the moonblade, but as odd result the blade absorded one especially charastetic power of the moonblades; The Elfshadow quality, and therefore the item transformed present a corrupted Moonblade whit it's own wicked but hidden purpose.
Then the wielder died, others never finding out his wicked nature and he had also lied the blade was a moonblade whcih he had found and during that time was not toughted that moonblades could be corrupted (thinked them to be ever pure). The blade becomed silent for time and it chosed new wielder from a another bladesinger in Myth Drannor but this case the wielder was good and valorous unlike any elf, and after his soul was also imbued into the blade after dying in drow ambush the blade's evil nature was murked more neutral (wielder was 30lvl). Then char's mother got it and altough she was not valorous like her father, the blade accepted her and she added more goodness into the blade and she died honorably (but she was not bladesinger but a adventorous bard of 15lvl).
Now the blade have stored of 105 HD amount of souls, so player should reach the epic proportions to reach 25lvl when suddenly he is teleported into distant location where he haves to face the 'four Vyshaanti brothers' who sensed when the blade had in total 130 HD ready to be taken, last problem now is that char is still alive and after decades of waiting they decided to kill him to speed the process so that they can have their revenge. The blade haves a odd signature which says; 'Only the creator masters me' but when wielder's blood is spilled over it and wielder msut be epic char, the text would change into 'Only my trainer masters me' and after reading that sentence qualifies for the epic legacy ritual which invokes the final powers of the blade which were writen up by the mage marshal, who now sentience is released and he more than gladly borrows his skill and knowlegde to player how to slay all the remaining Vyshaanti brothers and he hates his premier family clan for using him and imprisoning him into his own sword.
How this plot and background story sounds? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 20:14:35
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| As far as being a sword that convinces people that it is a moonblade, I could see it, as long as it really isn't. Artifacts tend to mess with divinations, and epic level spells cast on the blade could indeed mess up the ability to divine the blades actual past, so you could be on to something. I am home sick today, so actual details I'm going to have to bow out of because my brain isn't fully functioning at this point. |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 20:23:20
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| Aha, but I thinked because legacy items drain some other legacy item's powers if the wielder in question defeats a another legacy item carrier or destroyes a legacy item. So the sword in question had drained some magicall property of the moonblade and so in divination wise it is treated as such (the divination in question plainly ask it is moonblade or not, and it answers yes. But if it would ask how MUCH it is a moonblade in quality or purpose wise, it would answer like 10% :P). So weapon WAS not crafted as moonblade but thanks the minor ability drain it can bluff divinations it is a moonblade quite effectively. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 00:28:34
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
If I remember correctly, the Starym Moonblade is a corrupted artifact, so it doesn't really count for these purposes, since we know now that Arilyn's blade was damaged, otherwise it wouldn't have allowed a half-elf to claim it.
As I recall, Elaine once said that she believed that the Starym Moonblade did not exist -- a tale created by Volo.
I'll let her explain -
"Volo puts out as much misinformation as information, which necessitates the occasional footnote from Elminster to contradict some of his claims. I treat Volo's work as entertaining tavern tales, some of which may be true. It is my opinion that the Starym Moonblade is one of the more fanciful tales, and that this sword does not, in fact, exist. The notion of a gold elf blade "gone bad" is simply too contradictory to ring true."
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Edited by - The Sage on 08 Feb 2006 01:26:46 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 00:30:44
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Also, Kazzaroth... If you took a look through Elaine's compiled replies as I mentioned in the WotC thread... you'll begin to see how the Moonblades themselves have been conceptualised through the years in the FR setting and how they relate to the Realmslore. If nothing else, this lore should help you to further refine your own ideas about the Moonblade and what to watch for in order to keep your idea as valid as possible.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 00:41:46
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| As I've disagreed with Elaine before, that moonblade also appeared in Cloak and Dagger on page 62. So, it's more then just Volo's musings. I know her and Steven got into a debate about it but, shrug. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 00:54:09
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Aye...
You're pretty much free to go either way really. If just depends on how much legitimacy you, as the DM, give to the C&D entry... or the details in VGtATM in your own campaign.
As pertaining to the Realmslore though... the double reference more than grounds it in fact that is was once an actual Moonblade.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Feb 2006 01:09:30 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 00:58:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Aye...
You're pretty much free to go either way really. If just depends on how much legitimacy you, as the DM, give to the C&D entry... or the details in VGtATM in your own campaign.
As pertaining to the Realmslore though... the double reference more than grounds it as an actual Moonblade.
Not to disagree, with the lovely Elaine, but in my opinion, as the creator of said Starym Moonblade, I would characterize it as a "former moonblade." It was a moonblade. Then it was corrupted by a god (Moander). Therefore, it's not really a moonblade any more, but obviously it is still referred to as such (and thinks of itself as such).
--Eric
PS FWIW, if I recall correctly, I developed the Starym Moonblade after Elaine created the concept of a moonblade in Elfshadow / Elfsong, but before she published Evermeet: A Novel. In fact, I may have created it while she was writing Evermeet. In any event, if I had seen her later most excellent Realmslore on moonblades in Evermeet, I might not have created it. Water under the bridge. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 08 Feb 2006 00:59:42 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 02:00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Also, Kazzaroth... If you took a look through Elaine's compiled replies as I mentioned in the WotC thread... you'll begin to see how the Moonblades themselves have been conceptualised through the years in the FR setting and how they relate to the Realmslore. If nothing else, this lore should help you to further refine your own ideas about the Moonblade and what to watch for in order to keep your idea as valid as possible.
Can anyone point out the thread anme or page where the discussion is? Blame me lazy or what you like but you if anybody haves idea where the discussion may be :P. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Kazzaroth
Learned Scribe
Finland
104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 03:12:21
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| Thank you :). I think I chekc the lower link, to see does pages reveal any answers to me. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 04:25:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Only moon elf families were to claim them
Where source did this gender rule come from?
How is family a gender rule?
Sorry, for some reason, read that as moon elf female not families. Which then had me thinking some new product detailed changes to these blades.
And for those wishing a fresh take on this subject, check out Richard Baker's short story in Realms of the Elves. A very interesting development comes about. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 04:32:14
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
How many gold elves tried to claim a blade and died that day? I have forgotten.
I don't recall there ever being a set number given. I know that when the ceremony started 300 elves stepped forward to claim blades. Less than 200 were alive moments later. I think the next go around had two elves surviving. And finally, the last turn saw ten gold elves perish. Only then did a Durothil take charge and claimed one of the blades for the clan holding it until an individual would claim it. So, add that all up and you get some idea of how many gold elves might have perished according to the legend within the novel. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 05:49:33
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| I still say that Green or Sylvan elves should have been presentat the Elven Court and at least some should have recieved a moonblade, even if dormant ones as oposed to killing ones. I can not find any lore to back this up, just that at the gathering of clans of the winning elves only Gold were warned that it would be deadly for them to try one (No warning for Green and at least some clans should have been there). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 11:32:45
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Why were only moon elves able to claim a blade? It makes no sense that for example forest elves wouldn`t have a chance |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 12:30:03
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| Because the moonblades were designed (on orders from the Seldarine) to eventually decide who would get to be King of Evermeet, and the elven gods had revealed to the seer relaying their orders, that the future ruler of Evermeet would be a moon elf. The fact that some gold elf houses were given moonblades as well was nothing but politics. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 08 Feb 2006 12:39:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 17:29:19
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| And because moon elves are the ones that are the most adaptable and the most likely to interact with other races. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Feb 2006 17:29:53 |
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Berzerker_prime
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 07:07:32
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...
The lore says only that no gold elf has yet successfully claimed a Moonblade. It does not say that about the other branches of the elves. But I do recall reading something that said all the original, first claimers of the Moonblades that survived were silver elves.
So, if I've got this figured right, there's nothing to keep a Moonblade out of the hands of a worthy copper or green elf. It's just that the families they come from were not successful on that first day and claimed one to hold in trust for political reasons.
Yes?
Sweet water to you.
Berz.
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Berzerker_prime
Nen lend ah lalaith lim, darthol i lú aphadad govatham.
Gaming quote of the week:
"Why does everyone assume I have a plan?"
"Because you were giving the orders!"
- Scondora and Elara, Fellowship of the Ever-Falling Troll.
RIP Alton Goodbarrel. We shalt always remember thee for thy ability to find traps... the hard way... even when yon 350 lb Dwarf walks over them first without triggering them. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Queries about Moonblades.....
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