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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 14:37:17
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Was the monster depicted on page 63 ever mentioned anywhere else, or did David Dorman come up with it for that illustration? I've always been interested in it since I first saw it.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 16:49:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It looks kinda like a thessalhydra to me...
I'm bad on my 2e and 1e-I've no clue what that is. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 01:03:37
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
A not very fun creature to mess with. 
Okay-and it's stats are where? |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 05:46:40
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It's in the MC3, the first Forgotten Realms appendix to the Monstrous Compendium. I just looked at that entry, and then the artwork again... It's definitely a thessalhydra.
It's a nasty bugger. 12 hit dice, AC0 (That was good, in 2E, when AC ranged from 10 at the low end to -10 at the high end), 1d10 attacks (1d6 damage for 8 of them, 1d12 for another, and 1d20 for the last), 30' long, 8' tall at the shoulder, pincers on the end of a 18' tail... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 05:53:59
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On the subject of artwork in 2E books... I've always like the black and white picture on page 119 of the 2nd edition PHB. It depicts a young man and a young woman, flying thru the night sky on a flying carpet. Every time I see that image, I wonder just what their story is...
Oh, and then there's the Larry Elmore piece in the front of that book. It depicts a proud group of adventures, posing around the hanging corpse of a very young dragon. Someone once wrote in to Dragon magazine, complaining about that artwork. The gist of their complaint was "I can't believe you condone the killing of baby dragons!" The editor's reply was along the lines of "But that's the best time to kill them!" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 05:56:55
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| For what its worth, there is a 3rd edition version of this monstrosity in the Tome of Horrors, though obviously that isn't 100% official. They have "Thesselmonster" written up as a template in there, but one of the fleshed out examples is the Thesselhydra. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 05:59:13
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, there is a 3rd edition version of this monstrosity in the Tome of Horrors, though obviously that isn't 100% official. They have "Thesselmonster" written up as a template in there, but one of the fleshed out examples is the Thesselhydra.
Yeah, but that would take all the fun out of doing it myself...just got to wait to grab MC3 first. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 06:03:22
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| I remeber that picture, of the dragon killers, and the funny thing about that is that I remembered that picture vividly when my PCs met up with a blue dragon a few months back. It was only medium sized, and the half-ogre monk grappled it to keep it from flying away to alert other blues, and its breath took out two members of the party on the first round. After they killed it, they all laughed and joked about killing their first dragon, until the half-ogre's player (the youngest member of our group, my step daughter) pointed out that there are a LOT bigger dragons out in the desert and if they are any bigger than this one, that she wouldn't be able to grapple it while they hacked it to deal. Suddenly the group was much more somber and quickly took to finding shelter . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 06:55:58
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| Arivia, If you do work up a conversion, I would be interested to see it. While I could use the Tome of Horrors one if I needed to, it didn't "grab" me. I always like to see a few different opinions whenever a conversion isn't "official" because sometimes different designers seem to loose sight of what the monster was intended to do originally. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 07:07:09
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Arivia, If you do work up a conversion, I would be interested to see it. While I could use the Tome of Horrors one if I needed to, it didn't "grab" me. I always like to see a few different opinions whenever a conversion isn't "official" because sometimes different designers seem to loose sight of what the monster was intended to do originally.
I'd be happy to post it. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 08:33:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I always like to see a few different opinions whenever a conversion isn't "official" because sometimes different designers seem to loose sight of what the monster was intended to do originally.
Make the PCs' chainmail-trousers go rusty in the front? |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 11:59:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, there is a 3rd edition version of this monstrosity in the Tome of Horrors, though obviously that isn't 100% official. They have "Thesselmonster" written up as a template in there, but one of the fleshed out examples is the Thesselhydra.
Yeah, but that would take all the fun out of doing it myself...just got to wait to grab MC3 first.
Want me to send you the Tomb of Horrors revised version of it? |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 16:28:54
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, there is a 3rd edition version of this monstrosity in the Tome of Horrors, though obviously that isn't 100% official. They have "Thesselmonster" written up as a template in there, but one of the fleshed out examples is the Thesselhydra.
Yeah, but that would take all the fun out of doing it myself...just got to wait to grab MC3 first.
Want me to send you the Tomb of Horrors revised version of it?
Nope; staring at the MC3 version right now. I'll post it after I do it and a little homework.
EDIT: Okay, so so far doing a bit of preliminary work, I've come up with the following target: CR 12 Huge magical beast with approximately 12 HD. Oddly enough, the most complicated piece of work seems to be the full attack pattern, which will be possibly *really* convoluted. |
Edited by - Arivia on 05 Feb 2006 20:14:14 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 01:56:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Nope; staring at the MC3 version right now. I'll post it after I do it and a little homework.
EDIT: Okay, so so far doing a bit of preliminary work, I've come up with the following target: CR 12 Huge magical beast with approximately 12 HD. Oddly enough, the most complicated piece of work seems to be the full attack pattern, which will be possibly *really* convoluted.
This is what they did in Tomb of Horrors:
CR 10
HD 12
8 Small bites
1 Big bite
1 Tail attack
Tail has a improved grab with constriction.
All 9 bites do the same damage with the Big Bite doing more acid damage.
Kinda strange how they have it...
Can't wait to see what you do with this beastie. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 14:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
This is what they did in Tomb of Horrors:
CR 10
HD 12
8 Small bites
1 Big bite
1 Tail attack
Tail has a improved grab with constriction.
All 9 bites do the same damage with the Big Bite doing more acid damage.
Kinda strange how they have it...
Can't wait to see what you do with this beastie.
Well, here's the stat block:
Thessalhydra
Huge Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 12d10+60 (122 hp)
Initiative: +1(+1 Dex)
Speed: 20 ft(4 squares), swim 20 ft
AC: 24(+1 Dex, +15 natural armor, -2 size), touch 9, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+28
Attack: 8 bites +15 (2d6+4 plus 1d6 acid)
Full Attack: Maw +18 (3d6+8 plus 1d6 acid), 8 bites +15 (2d6+4 plus 1d6 acid), tail +14 (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 15 ft/10 ft
Special Attacks: Acidic spit, improved grab, maw, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immune to acid and poison, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +4
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +20, Search +14, Spot +20, Swim +11
Feats: Combat Reflexes[B], Gape of the Serpent[SK], Improved Multiattack[Dra], Multiattack, Multigrab[SK], Weapon Focus(bite)
Environment: Any damp, dark area
Organization: Single
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 12-16 HD (Huge); 17-24 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: -
This creature resembles a hydra, with eight heads on long necks leading to a twelve-foot long reptilian body. However, as the heads move, you can see that it is not a hydra---the heads surround a large, circular maw lined with jagged teeth and dripping with acid. Behind the body, the creature's eighteen-foot long, pincer-tipped tail swings from side to side.
{Note: An illustration of a thessalhydra can be found on page 63 of the Complete Wizard's Handbook[2e]}
A thessalhydra is the hybrid offspring of a thessalmonster(a mysterious, long-extinct monster known for its unstable genetics and the parent that grants thessalhydras their main body) and a hydra.
Thessalhydras are often confused with hydras. They prey upon their kin, animals, and anything else edible that might wander by. On occasion, they are known to take advantage of their resemblance to attack hydra slayers.
Thessalhydras prefer dark and damp settings, such as subterranean areas, swamps, and jungles.
Thessalhydra eggs are worth 7,500 gp, while untrained young are worth 12,000 gp. The Handle Animal check for training them is 21 for young and 27 for adult thessalhydras. They are often found as guards, either chained up in specific locations or set free in generally unused areas.
Combat
A thessalhydra can attack with all of its heads' bites as a normal attack, including in a charge.
In contrast to a hydra, a thessalhydra does not need to have all its heads severed to be killed-the body must be slain instead. However, a thessalhydra's heads may be severed like a hydra's(See page 155 of the Monster Manual). A thessalhydra's heads each have 10 hit points, but damage done to a head does not affect the main hit point total of the thessalhydra, which only applies to its body. Thessalhydras' severed heads are regrown in 12 days.
Acidic Spit(Ex): A thessalhydra may spit a glob of acid once per day. This attack has a range of 60 feet and deals 12d6 acid damage in a 10-foot radius. A DC 21 Reflex save can be made for half damage.
Improved Grab(Ex): If a thessalhydra hits an opponent that is Large or smaller with its tail or bite attacks, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it gets a hold, it transfers the opponent to its maw as a free action and automatically hits with its maw attack in the same round. It can then try to swallow its prey in the next round. Alternatively, the thessalhydra can conduct the grapple normally, or simply use its heads or tail to hold the opponent(-10 to grapple checks because of Multigrab, but the thessalhydra is not considered grappled). A thessalhydra cannot hold an opponent in its maw. Opponents held in its heads take bite damage and opponents held in its tail take tail damage during successive rounds automatically with successful grapple checks. If a thessalhydra hits an opponent that is Huge or smaller with its maw attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it gets a hold, it may attempt to swallow whole immediately.
Maw(Ex): A thessalhydra's main attack is the maw at the center of its ring of heads. It uses this maw to swallow whole and as a part of its attack pattern. Its maw is like a bite attack, except that it deals greater damage. A thessalhydra's maw attack is a different type of attack from its bite attack for purposes of feats and abilities. Note that even though its maw is a thessalhydra's main attack, it is not used in its single attack.
Swallow Whole(Ex): A thessalhydra can swallow a creature that is at least one size category smaller than itself by making a successful grapple check, providing the opponent is already in its maw at the beginning of its turn or was just grappled by its maw. Once inside the thessalhydra, an opponent takes 2d6+8 damage plus 1d6 acid damage per round. A successful grapple check allows a creature to crawl out of a thessalhydra's gullet and return to the thessalhydra's maw, where it must make another grapple check to get free. Alternatively, a swallowed creature can try to cut its way out with either natural attacks or a light slashing or piercing weapon. Dealing at least 25 points of damage to the gullet of a thessalhydra(AC 18) cuts a hole large enough to permit escape. Once a single swallowed creature exits, muscular action closes the hole. Thus, each swallowed creature must cut its own way out.
A thessalhydra may alternatively try to swallow a creature that is the same size as itself due to its Gape of the Serpent feat. To do this, it must currently hold the creature in its maw.
A thessalhydra may hold 1 Huge, 2 Large, 8 Medium, and 32 Small or smaller creatures in its gullet.
Skills: Thessalhydras have a +14 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks because of their multiple heads.
A thessalhydra has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard(not included in its statistics above). It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, providing it swims in a straight line.
Feats: A thessalhydra's Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all of its' heads for attacks of opportunity.
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Comments? Questions? Rules clarifications needed? Also, this beast really needs playtesting-I'm a bit worried about the CR and the clarity of the attack pattern and SA. |
Edited by - Arivia on 07 Feb 2006 15:33:26 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 18:27:43
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| Just as a quick glance, I have to say its a cleaner presentation than the Tome of Horrors version. I'll really dig into it later, but it just looks cleaner than the other version, though part of that is that you did a very good job presenting it in 3.5 format. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 18:39:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Just as a quick glance, I have to say its a cleaner presentation than the Tome of Horrors version. I'll really dig into it later, but it just looks cleaner than the other version, though part of that is that you did a very good job presenting it in 3.5 format.
Well, thanks. I wouldn't say it's really clean, though---it has possibly the most complex attack pattern I've ever seen, but the coolest. I just love the image of it grabbing folk with its bites and depositing them in the central maw. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 02:04:52
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Just as a quick glance, I have to say its a cleaner presentation than the Tome of Horrors version. I'll really dig into it later, but it just looks cleaner than the other version, though part of that is that you did a very good job presenting it in 3.5 format.
Have to concur with this.
Plus the different damage dice for the big mouth and the smaller mouths makes much more sense. While in Tome of Horrors they had all the mouths doing the same damage (3d8). |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2006 : 00:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and then there's the Larry Elmore piece in the front of that book. It depicts a proud group of adventures, posing around the hanging corpse of a very young dragon. Someone once wrote in to Dragon magazine, complaining about that artwork. The gist of their complaint was "I can't believe you condone the killing of baby dragons!" The editor's reply was along the lines of "But that's the best time to kill them!"
 How very true that statement has become with 3.x edition!
In our Savage Frontier campaign (15th level characters) we slew two Great Wyrms back in AD&D days! When we moved on to 3rd edition, our glorious dragonslaying days were over... as I once noted before a recent gaming session, pretending to be in-character: "Hey, I know we should go after Sharpfangs, but these days it just doesn't seem such a good idea. Maybe it's just me, but the dragons seems to have become a lot harder to kill since last summer!" |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2006 : 03:35:54
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Just an update . . . 3.5 Thessalhydra now has official stats, that can be found in Dungeon #134, along with the previously unknown creators of all monsters of Thessal name, the world travelling lich Thessalar.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2006 : 03:43:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I always like to see a few different opinions whenever a conversion isn't "official" because sometimes different designers seem to loose sight of what the monster was intended to do originally.
Make the PCs' chainmail-trousers go rusty in the front?
Wow, I just looked at its stats seriously for the first time. I think MY chainmail trousers are going to rust!
Apparently James Jacobs decided to make them a bit more . . . substantial. CR 15 Aberration, just for the record. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2006 : 03:46:02
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| Now you've all piqued my interest. Does anyone have a link to the picture from page 63 of the Wizards Handbook somewhere on the internet so we can see what grasped Arivia's interest? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2006 : 04:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Just an update . . . 3.5 Thessalhydra now has official stats, that can be found in Dungeon #134, along with the previously unknown creators of all monsters of Thessal name, the world travelling lich Thessalar.
How well do they jive with Arivia's stats? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2006 : 04:19:04
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Well, its a CR 15 Aberration instead of a CR 9 magical beast. It has about a hundred more hit points, and does some horrendous damage. Arivia's looks great, and with the monster type changed, it would look like a much smaller breed, perhaps a young specimen.
Oh . . . its armor class is 32 (!) |
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Artwork Question (Complete Wizard's Handbook)
