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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 14:34:39
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I found this intruiging little site on Ormpur:
http://www.daegmorgan.net/rpgs/theshaar/
and I'm wondering if any of this material is canon. It's very evocative, sort of reminds me of that extremely bizarre Cambodian village at the end of in Apocalypse Now.
Anyway, the most current info I have on Ormpur is from 3rd ed. 'The Shining South'. Has anything transpired there in canon lore since that was published?
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 18:05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
I found this intruiging little site on Ormpur:
http://www.daegmorgan.net/rpgs/theshaar/
and I'm wondering if any of this material is canon. It's very evocative, sort of reminds me of that extremely bizarre Cambodian village at the end of in Apocalypse Now.
Anyway, the most current info I have on Ormpur is from 3rd ed. 'The Shining South'. Has anything transpired there in canon lore since that was published?
Shining South and Serpent Kingdoms are the main 3e sources detailing this area.
I don't think this site conforms to canon, for whatever that's worth.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 21:05:58
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Thanks for the additional reference there. :)
Ah, well I see that the writer for the above site does use the Serpent Kingdoms events as a platform. In 1306 the king of the then thriving independent city-state of Ormpur was assassinated by his foster daughter, precipitating a holy war. It goes on to say that that war "reduced Ormpur from the great city to the lesser community it is today."
Which is confusing given that Ormpur is described in that entry also as a "Large City" with population 24,612. Especially given Ormpur's lucrative monopoly on the saffron trade, a population of 24,612 people suggests a thriving, bustling city. Not a lesser community.
The king was known as the Hand of Tiamat, and the traitorous princess had her knights set the Dragon Queen's temple ablaze after murdering him. So it's not hard to imagine severe consequences meted out by Tiamat's faithful, especially if vengeful dragons were involved. That does sound like something that could result in the city being almost totally destroyed, actually. Anyway, just how greatly it was damaged, and how much it has recovered I guess is up to the DM, eh? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 00:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboydI don't think this site conforms to canon, for whatever that's worth.
I didn't see much that was taken from the relevant sourcebooks myself... and there's a few odd references to a knighthood and series of temples that have no basis in the lore either.
I think this is more likely a home campaign-specific interpretation of Ormpur, based on canon and altered in parts, for a DM's home FR campaign.
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 02:04:24
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I agree with that assessment, although note the following canon from the Serpent Kingdoms p. 100:
"In the Year of Thunder (1306 DR), on a day known to Ormpurrans as Bloodsword, Chansreena (princess) Maerildarraine, foster daughter of High Suikh (king) Askulder, slew her father, who was known as the Hand of Tiamat. After proclaiming herself queen, she ordered her knights to set the royal temple of the Dragon Queen afire. This act precipitated a holy war that eventually cost Maerildarraine her throne and her life and reduced Ormpur from a great city to the lesser community it is today."
I'm not sure what is meant by 'knights'. Knights typically serve a king, or royal family. Assuming they were royal knights then they would have served Tiamat (LE). Perhaps they are blackguards? But why then would they consent to destroy a temple of Tiamat?
The above website author's depictions of Ormpur as the "City of Graves" and the "City of the Dead" seems to be confusing it with Sheirlantar, which in Serpent Kingdoms (p. 101) is described as the "Tomb City." In turn, Sheirlantar is described on that site as entirely different than that canon source has it.
Any rate, it is certainly easy to imagine dragons laying waste to the city during this 'holy war'.
Are there any other canon sources anyone knows of for Ormpur? Any references anywhere to how badly the holy war ruined the city? How did the war end? Etc.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 07:05:35
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For (a little) bit more information on Maerildarraine, see Ed's New Adventures of Volo article in Dragon Magazine #272 (June 2000-issue). I knew it was a good idea to write those into word-files |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 12:36:40
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Excellent, thanks Kajehase! Where can I get a copy of something like that?
There are some apparent contradictions in the Serpent Kingdoms' entry on Ormpur on p. 100, which I have already noted. It's not clear if the city was once a metropolis that later was reduced to a large city, or whether it is a large city in geography only and its population and infrastructure was severely diminished by the war. Even for Oprmpur to now be a "large city" doesn't seem to jibe with its description as a "lesser community." Also, it's unclear who the factions were in the war. Ormpur was a city that openly worshipped Tiamat. For a 'holy war' to have ensued from Maerildarraine's attempted coup suggests that a substantial number of the population rejected Tiamat worship. Evidently she must have coopted a strong contingent of the royal guard who felt this way.
The available info is sketchy, and rather vague. So there lot of room is left for the DM to be creative with here. But I do want for whatever I do to be consistent with the canon that exists.
It's helpful for the campaign I'm involved with for this once great city to have been nearly destroyed during the holy war shat started in 1306, with most of its inhabitants killed during that time, or abandoning the city.
I'm thinking of having the following taken place:
Ormpur was 75% destroyed in a devastating attack by dragons during the war. It has never been rebuilt because dragons have vowed to return to destroy again if anyone ever tries. The dragons are making an example with this city for what the consequences shall be should anyone in the Realms ever again desecrate a holy temple of Tiamat, and launch a holy war against the Dragon Queen.
The dragons might however very well tolerate a village of devoted Tiamat worshippers within or near to the ruins who harvest the crocus flower in Ormpur Bay. Perhaps this village is set on the beach several hundred yard away from the city, as the writer of the above site has it. The folk of this village would be strangely barbaric (perhaps a druidic influence from the Shaar? the survivors within the city would be of Tashlutan origin but they have maintained a friendly relationship over the centuries with Shaaran nomads). They would enjoy an odd kind of prosperity from the saffron trade but with a bizarre twist: I love the quirk the writer of the above site adds that they do so in some kind of primitive fashion where they live an idyllic, tropical, 'gone native' existence, shunning civilization. I dunno, maybe not, but I just like the quirkiness of that.
Anyway, I'm considering something basically along these lines. Mainly because it serves the purpose of having this port region be a relatively small community. But I'd appreciate feedback on what others think would 'most likely' have happened to Ormpur in the wake of the holy war at the turn of the century. If this were your campaign, how would you work with Ormpur? |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 12:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Excellent, thanks Kajehase! Where can I get a copy of something like that?
In my case, a somewhat batty landlady who actually made a deduction of my rent to take care of the issues of Dragon Magazine (about 30 issues I think) her grandson had left behind when he was conscripted to do military duty on an airfield up in Northern Sweden. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2006 : 22:41:11
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Well, Ed notes the following among the ten richest persons in the Realms, so it would seem is Ormpur is probably still a relatively thriving city:
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* Nalune Tassarat of Ormpur (CE female Tashalan human Rog7/Exp6) is an aging former prostitute who invested her earnings lifelong in shady smuggling, slaving, drug-dealing and thieving concerns, making much coin that in later life she invested in building luxurious brothels and palatial city towers that were from the first split into rental housing, floor by floor, and proved a huge hit with Ormpurrians who weren’t quite wealthy enough to own and maintain large mansions, but wanted luxury and haughty addresses. “Old Nalune” always wanted hidden tunnels and chambers in her buildings, and made quite a lot of sideline coin servicing persons who needed to go into hiding for a time, or who wanted to meet pleasure-lasses VERY discreetly. Now, in the twilight of her years, she’s increasingly investing in clever traders from Tharsult and Lantan, sponsoring them on fair terms - - and raking in coins as a result. It’s said she sleeps on a bed of cabochon-cut (smooth-polished) rubies, and is beginning to consort with necromancers with an eye to achieving undeath for herself.
Still, I'm curiuous as to how diminished a city this is as a result of the "holy war" precipitated by the king's step daughter's murder of the king and desecration of the royal temple to Tiamat. And who the participants in the holy war were, specifically. How long it lasted. Who did what. Etc.
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Ormpur
