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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 22:17:13
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Since my campaign is on hiatus for a few months, I decided to take some time and rework my official house/optional rules that I use in the campaign (since my current campaign has been kind of a running battle, i.e. starting off with two players, loosing one, gaining a new one, adding my step children, loosing my step children during the school year, and adding another player) for when I can introduce them logically at a new starting point.
So this is my training document. I just wanted to get some insights about how it looks to others that might have opinions on the matter. I have been trying to be relatively fair while still keeping in mind that I want this to make sense "in game" from the stand point of the campaign.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 22:20:32
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Houserule: Training for multi-classing
Characters must have some information in their background to explain any multi-classing they do. Some multi-classing is fairly easy to accomplish, such as barbarians taking levels of fighter. However, for any classes that have supernatural abilities and specialized training will take a specific trainer and exceptional time.
Special cases: If the character has a compelling character explanation, taking levels of sorcerer, favored soul, or wilder is allowed with only the normal amount of time between levels. If they have a chance to make a pact with some extra planar entity, they may take a level of Warlock.
Note, characters that take certain feats that indicate that they have had any kind of formal training in a given classes abilities before, such as feats that allow for the use of cantrips or magic items, may multi class into other classes more easily as well.
Training time for multi-classing into unfamiliar classes:
Primary class simple multi-classing to moderate secondary class: One year in training (example, barbarian to bard)
Primary class simple multi-classing to heavily skilled secondary class: Four years in training (example, rogue training to become a wizard)
Primary class moderate mult-classing to skilled secondary class: Three years in training (example, ranger training to be a cleric)
Primary class moderate or skilled picking up a simple class: 6 months (example, rogue picking up level of barbarian)
Primary class moderate picking up non associated moderate class: One year (ranger picking up level of paladin)
Primary class skilled picking up non associated skilled class: Two years (wizard picking up level of druid)
Upon character creation, if a character specifies that they have had some kind of training in other classes, those classes may be picked up under normal training rules, so long as the background is approved and makes sense. Also, the number of years listed above should be added to the base starting age of the character.
Example: A barbarian starts out with his character rolling a starting age of 17 years old. In the future he may want to become a bard, and perhaps take skald as a PrC. The character would note in their background that they spent time with the tribal storyteller, training as a skald, but never completed his training well enough to gain any effects. The character then adds one year to his age to indicate that he was training as a bard as well, thus making his starting age 18.
A rogue spends years in training with a wizard, but never really gets the hang of casting spells. He starts out as a rogue, rolling a starting age of 18. Since he may later want to pick up a level of wizard, he may add four years to his starting age, starting at 22 years old, and noting his apprenticeship in his character background at first level.
Simple classes: Barbarian, rogue, sorcerer, favored soul, wilder
Moderate classes: Bard, fighter, paladin, ranger, psychic warrior, marshal, soul knife
Skilled classes: Wizard, monk, cleric, druid, psion, war mage, healer
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 02 Feb 2006 02:36:12 |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 22:41:44
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For those characters who decide ahead of time, you may wish to add only 1/2 the time, and make them spend the other half in training at a later date.
I put two years into working my way into becoming a wizard when i was a lad, and now I've got to study for another 2 years to finish my education and learn to actually cast spells. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2006 : 22:45:16
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| I guess part of what I wanted to do was rewards someone that was going to explain that they might eventually want to take levels of wizard, so that they only had to do the normal few weeks of training to get their wizard level, since they had the foresight to mention in their backstory. Plus I would have to try and figure out what was going on for two years in the campaign while one character wanted to take time off to do this. In a way, that is why those years come in handy, as a way to disuade someone from not planning long term . . . I can see your point though. |
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katherinna
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 00:53:37
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| well that leaves me out I am a woman and a human. |
katherinne in rp 18 real 30
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 01:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by katherinna
well that leaves me out I am a woman and a human.
What relevance does that have to this topic? KnightErrantJR's training rules(which are very good, I might add) are based off neither race nor gender.
As for the original topic of this thread:
Why the limited selection of classes? You have the marshal and favored soul, for example, but not the healer or the warmage. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 02:33:36
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| Sorry Arivia, I had them originally mentioned in the first draft, but I changed a few things and they "fell out" so I'll edit them back in. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 13:00:00
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| Hmm...nice, but given the quite lengthy training periods for getting adjusted into a new class, are there ways to speed up training? For sometimes I and my fellows reasoned that to get a example novice rogue into a battle hardened one is to toss that poor soul into a real fight or challenge and surely, experience will kickstart them especially dire situations, for we reasoned that some situations need a speedy training of characters. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 13:49:23
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Just another little thing for you to consider, some prestige classes give certain abilities which may seem unsuitable without training.
The Spellsword for example gives the ability to ignore a certain % arcane spell failure. I'd rule that the character must have spent some time wearing armour before becoming a spellsword, rather than just suddenly 'oooh I'm good at wearing armour and casting all of a sudden'
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 01:28:39
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| Yeah, given how many PrCs there are, I started to write up requirements, but then thought that it might just be better to deal with such things on a case by case basis. |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2009 : 21:43:02
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::prays over the topic asking for it to be raised from the dead::
So, I was doing a search for ideas/ways for non-spellcasters to create magic items beyond the one or two there are now and this came up in the search, but training rules were something I was actually working on recently as my players are approaching 6th level and part of our house rules are that after 5th level in a class, you do not require full training anymore unlike levels 1 through 5.. and I know some folks are thinking of multi-classing which i never thought should just take a few weeks like just going up in your current class. So I opened the topic up.
but anyways... lol... my question is this KnightErrantJR (if your still around and reading the boards) or someone else may have some thoughts on the issue...
1) Why would the fighter class be listed as a moderate class? when you are first becoming a fighter it seems pretty straight forward..
2) Why is the rogue a simple class? to use their sneak attack they have learned quite a bit about where to strike for the most damage, while the fighter is just "wailing away". Hopefully to find and disarm traps they have gone through quite a bit of training on different kinds of traps, different ways to render them harmless without killing yourself in the process, what not to mess with, etc. Maybe switch fighter and rogue?
3) Why is the bard only moderate based on all the abilities they get at 1st level, ie right after completing their training? I would actually switch the bard and druid. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2009 : 04:33:39
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All of the classes were listed the way they were due to the starting ages of a character of that class according to the 3.5 PH. I had started putting them into various categories based on my own preferences, but in the end, I'd rather create a rules subset that was based on the current rules rather than go off on my own tangent.
I would still argue, however, that fighters probably have a lot more training involved than what you give them credit for, and bards tend to already have a lot of natural aptitude going into their training, but that's just my own bias showing through. |
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Fisk
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 04:25:25
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Yes, the fighter is a much more trained class than you might think. I used to participate in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism), and did a bit of armored combat. It takes a VERY long time to learn all these, and there are many tactics involved. It's not just picking up a weapon and swinging it. Even having a starter feat like weapon focus could take a year or two to have developed.
I agree, though, that the rogue should be moved up. Many of their unique skills require a lot of training, and probably working with a master. Take the sneak attack, for example: the rogue knows exactly where to hit, as to get the most damage; it's not a simple called shot.
But I would also have to say that the paladin should be on the higher side of medium, if not on the skilled list. Not only does it take martial training, but spiritual and magical growth. They must have spent a lot of time and devotion to develop that.
Well, there's my two-cents worth. |
Fisk |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 12:18:59
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And this is why I am working toward a class-free system based entirely on feats, or one based just on the four primary classes (five if you count psion).
I haven't decided yet - I'd prefer class-free, but when I've tried to go 100% that route I wound-up with a 'training layer' that emulated the basic classes anyway, which just managed to over-complicate the system.
In other words, in a class-free system, you'd get character points each level, and one of the major things you'd have to pick from was 'martial Training', or 'Arcane Schooling', etc... in order to be able pick higher skill-levels in certain areas (weapon usage, spell schools, etc).
All that did was put the class-syste back in under another guise.
Ah, well... I'll figure it out someday.
Anyhow, great work KEJr (even though thats a little belated). I understand completely where you are coming from - by creating rules, you are forcing your players to better roleplay and think-ahead. I gather this isn't really meant to be used, but rather is a 'punshment' for those who don't bother with back-story. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 May 2009 12:19:46 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 16:01:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Anyhow, great work KEJr (even though thats a little belated). I understand completely where you are coming from - by creating rules, you are forcing your players to better roleplay and think-ahead. I gather this isn't really meant to be used, but rather is a 'punshment' for those who don't bother with back-story.
Heh, you picked that up, did you? Yes, the idea was that you want a PC to have a reason to multiclass and not just pick up classes and abilities for a "build." True, you could still create a backstory that facilitates a "build" under this system, but I have no problem with someone making an effective character under the rules, if it also makes sense from a roleplaying point of view.
As far as stripped down classes, I'm not sure if its what you were looking for, but have you looked at the "simple" classes in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana?
Essentially you have a Tank, a Skill Monkey, or a Spellcaster (not the terms they use). Coupled with the PrC versions of the paladin, ranger, and bard presented in the same book, it can make for a pretty flexible alternative to the current system. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3252 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 17:06:03
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| It's actually kinda weird, but I never 'build' characters out for reasons other than RPing ones. Heck, I was the first of our group to realize that the Sorcerer/Rogue/Arcane Trickster is a magical sniper. But at level 17 he started with Cleric levels due to his faith in Selūne. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Houserule Workshop: Training Rules
