| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 16:08:12
|
Who has a good grasp on this new FR cosmology? I'm looking to incorporate the better parts that I'm not using (I know enough to be dangerous) and really immerse my players in its function. I understand that Faerun is sort of a hub or focus point for all planes to intersect? Or how does that work?
Also if you're not fond of the new cosmology I really not at all interested in hearing why. 
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 16:32:08
|
It'll help... so I recommend firstly that for the FR planar framework's current status, you take a look at the CoC in my sig and read through the FR Planar Changes from 2e-to-3e section to better understand how the planes relate to FR in the 3e cosmology.
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
Also if you're not fond of the new cosmology I really not at all interested in hearing why.
I'll add to this, that before the discussion even begins... posters with "strong" feelings for either cosmology remember exactly what Mystery_Man is asking here.
I don't want to see this turn into a 2e vs. 3e planar debate.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 30 Jan 2006 16:36:23 |
 |
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 16:55:29
|
Have you read the info in the Player's Guide? It updates and changes a few things from the FRCS. After you read those and Sages Faq, come back with questions we can answer. :)
Don't forgot to check the Compendiums as well. Gray, Sage, and I wrote a few things for the new planes. Gray and Sage continue to write about them but I've since backed off for various reasons. :)
With Faerun being the hub, if you astral travel you have to go to the plane you had in mind. You can't just decide halfway through to go to another plane once you are in the Astral, but if you do decide that you want to go to another plane you have to return to Faerun/Toril and start all over again.
Everything basically moves from the planes through Faerun/Toril and then back to the planes. Each continent has thier own astral plane or astral-like plane, in the case of Kara-tur. So there's at least four astrals connected to Toril. Faerun's, Kara-tur's, Maztica's, and Zakhara's. All of them are seperate and different from each other except for Zakhara's and Faerun's since those two astrals connect to the same elemental planes, which they share. But there might be more astrals that connect to the other continents that are undetailed.
Sigil still exists and it is the same Sigil of all settings since it's a strange city that is everywhere and no where. The Infinite Staircase does the same thing. So there are three ways to get to the other settings, those two places and the shadow plane. My theory is that the world ash would also do the same thing but this isn't official.
The crystal shell/sphere might or might not exist but even if it does, no one can find it since Realmspace is now an infinite material plane, unlike in the old cosmology when it was just one of many solar systems, I.E, Grayhawk, Kyrnn, etc, were all a part of one infinite prime material but now each of them have thier own seperate and different prime materials.
So, as I said if you have any other questions, ask. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 30 Jan 2006 17:04:29 |
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 17:15:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Have you read the info in the Player's Guide? It updates and changes a few things from the FRCS. After you read those and Sages Faq, come back with questions we can answer. :)
Just did! :)
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Don't forgot to check the Compendiums as well. Gray, Sage, and I wrote a few things for the new planes. Gray and Sage continue to write about them but I've since backed off for various reasons. :)
I'd love too, but there are so many! Can you recommend a few?
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
With Faerun being the hub, if you astral travel you have to go to the plane you had in mind. You can't just decide halfway through to go to another plane once you are in the Astral, but if you do decide that you want to go to another plane you have to return to Faerun/Toril and start all over again.
That answers one I was just about to get clarification on.
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
So, as I said if you have any other questions, ask. :)
Is it a tree or is it like a tree in the perception of the traveller?
Are the branches of the tree that is either a tree or like a tree taking the place of the astral plane?
Is there a database of the gods and their planar dwelling somewhere?
That should be good to start.  |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 17:38:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
Just did! :)
I'd love too, but there are so many! Can you recommend a few?
That answers one I was just about to get clarification on.
Is it a tree or is it like a tree in the perception of the traveller?
Are the branches of the tree that is either a tree or like a tree taking the place of the astral plane?
Is there a database of the gods and their planar dwelling somewhere?
That should be good to start.
Volumes 2 through 4 of the Compendiums all contain planar lore. As I said, Gray continued to write planar lore for volumes 3 and 4. :)
Faerun's cosmology is shapped basically like a tree, aye. And Faerun's Astral connects to all the branches and Zakhara's Astral connects to the "roots" of Faerun's tree because that is where the elemental planes are located.
Of all the gods..... well no not all the gods, but Faiths and Pantheons, the FRCS, and the Player's Guide are good places to start. But WOTC hasn't detailed where many of the monster deities reside, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 17:52:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_ManIs it a tree or is it like a tree in the perception of the traveller?
Are the branches of the tree that is either a tree or like a tree taking the place of the astral plane?
Have you looked at the example of the Tree in the FRCS 3e? That should pretty much handle these two questions...
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 18:18:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_ManIs it a tree or is it like a tree in the perception of the traveller?
Are the branches of the tree that is either a tree or like a tree taking the place of the astral plane?
Have you looked at the example of the Tree in the FRCS 3e? That should pretty much handle these two questions...
Yeah...and no it doesn't, not really. Unless I'm just asking stupid questions. |
|
|
|
Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 19:36:33
|
| Where on the planes would Bhaal or Moander dwell were they alive in present day Faerun? |
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 19:38:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
If I may suggest, here are links to two threads on the WotC forums that might be of use to you:
The Order of the Creation of the Planes:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=302068
This thread is all about the origins of the Tree cosmology and speculations on the history of the FR planes.
holy crap, I guess it's a good thing I'm goofing off at work today. ;) |
|
|
|
Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 19:47:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
Where on the planes would Bhaal or Moander dwell were they alive in present day Faerun?
Bhaal-Bastion of Doom and Despair
Moander-Fury's Heart
Just some thoughts. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 20:45:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
Where on the planes would Bhaal or Moander dwell were they alive in present day Faerun?
Bhaal-Bastion of Doom and Despair
Moander-Fury's Heart
Just some thoughts.
Certainly wouldn't rule that out. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 00:25:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_ManIs it a tree or is it like a tree in the perception of the traveller?
Are the branches of the tree that is either a tree or like a tree taking the place of the astral plane?
Have you looked at the example of the Tree in the FRCS 3e? That should pretty much handle these two questions...
Yeah...and no it doesn't, not really. Unless I'm just asking stupid questions.
They're not stupid questions... but if you've completely studied the cosmological make-up in the FRCS 3e and the descriptions in the PGtF, you pretty much got a solid enough grounding on the 3e planar framework as is.
The only other bits of lore on it are those that have been discussed by Ed, Sean Reynolds and Rich Baker... all of which are included in the Candlekeep and WotC compiled replies located in Kuje's file (see his sig).
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 31 Jan 2006 00:26:10 |
|
|
|
Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 00:34:48
|
Moander's realm was called Offalmound. It is mentioned in the Players Guide to Faerūn as being lost. We don't know if it was a plane in its own right, or simply a divine realm within a larger plane.
In 2nd edition it was a layer of the Abyss. There is some evidence to suggest that Moander was once an Abyssal Lord that ascended to godhood. If so we might speculate that Moander started out in the Abyss and later ripped his realm free to make it a plane of its own. Just like Lolth did. I am sure there is an interesting bit of lore there. Whatever it is, his realm has now slipped it's ties with the Astral and has either faded away or is inaccessible.
Bhaal's realm was called the Throne of Blood, and it was located in the Barrens of Doom and Despair. You may still be able to find some abandoned and faded ruins of his realm in the Barrens of Doom and Despair. It appears on the map I created of the Barrens which you can find in the Candlekeep Compendium Volume II. The planar articles in the Candlekeep Compendium volume II are all about the Barrens and several of the divine realms you can find there. |
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 01:20:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Moander's realm was called Offalmound. It is mentioned in the Players Guide to Faerūn as being lost. We don't know if it was a plane in its own right, or simply a divine realm within a larger plane.
In 2nd edition it was a layer of the Abyss. There is some evidence to suggest that Moander was once an Abyssal Lord that ascended to godhood. If so we might speculate that Moander started out in the Abyss and later ripped his realm free to make it a plane of its own. Just like Lolth did. I am sure there is an interesting bit of lore there. Whatever it is, his realm has now slipped it's ties with the Astral and has either faded away or is inaccessible.
Bhaal's realm was called the Throne of Blood, and it was located in the Barrens of Doom and Despair. You may still be able to find some abandoned and faded ruins of his realm in the Barrens of Doom and Despair. It appears on the map I created of the Barrens which you can find in the Candlekeep Compendium Volume II. The planar articles in the Candlekeep Compendium volume II are all about the Barrens and several of the divine realms you can find there.
That's the exact kind of thing I was looking for. I'm ready to embrace this whole "tree" thing and both Bhaal and to a lesser extent Moander and going to feature IMC very soon. I've been soaking up much of the old 2E material on them today and need to figure them into the tree somehow.
|
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 01:30:32
|
For Moander it says that an infinitesimal fraction of his essence remains on the astral plane....
This was of course back in the old 2E days when the astral plane was not (if I'm understanding this correctly from the PGtF) like it is now sharing the treelike shape of the cosmology as a whole, with the trunk being the material and the branches are the Astral.
So now, some part of the essence of Moander could be floating around from branch to branch somewhere? |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 31 Jan 2006 01:34:57 |
|
|
|
Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 05:32:22
|
Typically when gods die their residual energy goes to the Astral Plane and floats there in the form of a giant corpse that looks like the image of the god.
These island-sized god bodies even have their own gravity. often times inhabitants of the Astral (mostly Githyanki) settle on them and build structures, even cities. Sometimes these islands occasionally shake and quiver (godquakes) from the latent divine energy within, or perhaps they are triggered when someone, somewhere says a prayer in the dead god's name.
The god bodies become more inert, weathered, eroded and indistinct with age and the degree to which they are forgotten among the living.
Most likely this is what happened to Moander. He didn't die all that long ago, so his god corpse must still be pretty fresh... |
|
|
|
Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2006 : 07:23:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Most likely this is what happened to Moander. He didn't die all that long ago, so his god corpse must still be pretty fresh...
Suddenly I'm going all "Young Frankenstein ". |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 31 Jan 2006 07:27:27 |
|
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 03:55:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
With Faerun being the hub, if you astral travel you have to go to the plane you had in mind. You can't just decide halfway through to go to another plane once you are in the Astral, but if you do decide that you want to go to another plane you have to return to Faerun/Toril and start all over again.
Hmm... Kuje... You just reminded me how deadly it is, in Faerun, to throw your portable hole in your bag of holding...
"Oops, I'm sucked into the Astral..."
"Oops, I can't divert my course and I'm heading straight to the Nine Hecks..."
"Nooooooooooooooooooooo!" |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 04:45:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
With Faerun being the hub, if you astral travel you have to go to the plane you had in mind. You can't just decide halfway through to go to another plane once you are in the Astral, but if you do decide that you want to go to another plane you have to return to Faerun/Toril and start all over again.
Hmm... Kuje... You just reminded me how deadly it is, in Faerun, to throw your portable hole in your bag of holding...
"Oops, I'm sucked into the Astral..."
"Oops, I can't divert my course and I'm heading straight to the Nine Hecks..."
"Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"
HEHEHE. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2006 : 12:22:01
|
Or having arrived in the Astral without a stated destination, you might be stuck there with no exit. Not sure if returning to the Material Plane would be an option or not.
Likely a Plane Shift spell or some other planar travel spell would let you leave. But you might not be able to find any color pools at all to anywhere.
Of course, the act of landing in the Astral through an act of misfortune might in itself be interpreted as a kind of "selection" which could make available to you only color pools leading to Beshaba's realm...  |
|
|
|
Volo
Seeker
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2006 : 00:58:29
|
| One question I've always had is, does Karsus, the Momentary God, have a divine corpse-island? He /was/, technically, a deity when he died, if a moronic one. |
Volo's misunderstood. He's not an idiot. He's a FLAMING idiot! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
FR Cosmology (the new)
