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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 18:32:49
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According to FR flavor (but SRD info could be added to), when a divine spellcaster scribe a scroll like Resurection, Commune, Weapon's of the Deity, etc.
Does the scroll works with the scriber deity or the "user" one? If you answer the user one, what you do for Use Magic Device ?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 19:19:39
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Good question, I would say the scroll is charged with magic of the deity of the writer, that the final action of a caster of another deity finishes the spell by using it with no or very little call on their own deity. Most of the spell is already deity granted, perhaps all of it.
A better way to deal with this is the deity grants the spell to the writer to do what they want with it. That the scriber had the choice of casting the spell then or store it on the scroll. The deity does not care which, nor care about how the spell is later used if stored. The scroll spell does not contain a divine fingerprint at all, the deity has no interest in how a spell is used just concerned about granting it to a follower to use.
To do a divine fingerprint of one spell would imply that all scrolls and other divine items have a fingerprint. A lot of record keeping and in some ways a game breaker.
*After the battle with the Zents you find some potions that ID as potions of healing, you drink one, but it tastes like water and does not heal you because the potion was made by a cleric of another deity then you follow.*
Deities in FR do not keep all that close a watch on their followers to know what each is doing, they are limited in what they know is going on. They can not be concerned about every potion, scroll or magic item created by their clergy, so thier divine spark will not be in magic items at all. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 19:27:23
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Ok, I'll give more precise details.. my evil PCs recently killed a cleric of Selūne and they found in his shrine some powerfull scrolls (Commune, Resurection and the like).
Can the PC who is a cleric of Bane use them to Ressurect in Bane's name or Commune with Bane/Bane's proxies.
Can the Faithless(!) Rogue/Assassin use them with her UMD skill.. ?
Hmmm.. maybe a good loop hole to foul someone coming back from dead? Nah... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 19:51:45
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The Faithless can use Divine scrolls if they make their UMD check, it strikes me that any cleric of high enough level can use any Divine scroll without problem.
Divine scrolls used to be defined as written in common, or at least normal readable text (Could be Elven, Drow, Troll (if they have a written language), Draven, etc. so yes I would say that the Bane Cleric can use Ressurect scroll even if it was written by a Selūne cleric, that that also the comune scroll can be used to contact Bane, though it was intended to contact Selūne. As far as it goes I can picture some richer churches paying poorer same aligned churches to make scrolls for them as they are as far as I know useable my tose of any faith or no faith. Hire out scroll writting provides a richer church more free time to work more directly for goals of their deity.
As DM you certainly can decide to say a scroll written by the follower of one deity unuseable by a non-follower, but I do not think this would be a good idea.
The scrolls will/should work as per the rules. A scroll can be found of a dead deity and it will still work. Treasures found in kobold lairs come from only deity knows can be used by whomever finds them. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 21:28:42
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There is something wrong if both works because, if UMD for a faithless work, than it works on scriber deity's name. If it works on scriber deity's name, then the cleric of Bane use it, he would use it on Selūne's name too..
Maybe you could argue that a cleric can use a scroll scribed by another deity scribe in his own deity's name. Then, what about a faithfull UMD user, can he do the same ?
I never liked divine scrolls  |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 21:30:17
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Use magic device can be used explicitly to 'fool' a magic item.
It can make the user appear to the item of a different alignment, class, etc etc (assuming presumably cleric of bane) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 21:58:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Use magic device can be used explicitly to 'fool' a magic item.
It can make the user appear to the item of a different alignment, class, etc etc (assuming presumably cleric of bane)
Not sure if one is fooling the magic item, because many have no stats. It might better be fooling the weave that the person is a mage, priest, etc. Also I do not believe that the scroll would be used as a cleric of bane, just used as a cleric (that faith does not matter at all). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 22:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
There is something wrong if both works because, if UMD for a faithless work, than it works on scriber deity's name. If it works on scriber deity's name, then the cleric of Bane use it, he would use it on Selūne's name too..
Nay the power was invested in the deities name, after the scroll is made the deity does not care about how it is used. Thus making it useable by anyone of any or no faith.
quote:
Maybe you could argue that a cleric can use a scroll scribed by another deity scribe in his own deity's name. Then, what about a faithfull UMD user, can he do the same ?
I do not argue a scroll is used in the name of any deity at all, just that the scroll was created by divine grace of a deity. Any that can complete the spell effect does so based on their own skills and knowledge.quote:
I never liked divine scrolls
I can see you have a problem with them, just do not over think them, the design teams did not. A scrool is a scroll a specisied Wiz scribing a fireball scroll can scribe a scroll one level higher, that does not prevent a Wiz general or spesizied in other schools from using it. They do not need to know who wrote it. Of course other restrictions do apply, able to cast the spell, stat high enough, etc. Once any magic is made it is useable by anyone, even if designed only to be used by Shamans of the Girbig clan (which I invented right now and I am not going to define any better). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 22:30:34
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Actually I think specialised wizards with prohibited schools are also prohibited from casting any scrolls from that school.
Not sure if this covers wands, and also activateable items with spells on from that school.
But that's another topic ;) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 22:47:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Actually I think specialised wizards with prohibited schools are also prohibited from casting any scrolls from that school.
Not sure if this covers wands, and also activateable items with spells on from that school.
But that's another topic ;)
I do believe if I said if they otherwise could cast the spell. A specialised wizard can not cast from prohibited list that they select, unless they have enough ranks in UMD to appear to not be prohibited. The same applies to an evil aligned cleric from casting a good spell, unless they can appear to be good (which UMD applies, and perhaps shield alignment.)
To use a magic item one has to appear qualified to use it, by skills, feat or other magic or device. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2006 : 22:56:42
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| I'm gunna ask this question on the WotC boards |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Divine scroll
