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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 04:48:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
It's keeping the Tarrasque asleep! Don't muck with it!!
 Nah. The thing it's keeping asleep (or imprisoned, or whatever) would eat the Tarrasque as an appetizer, I think... 
Edit: After two days of percolating evil ideas:
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<chop>Applying this to what Wooly said, its easy to see that the Pyramids may have been used to either summon something incredibly powerful, or constrain something incredibly powerful (and by 'constrain', I mean either keep it OUT of Toril's Crystal Sphere, or keep it imprisoned, most-likely in an extra-dimensional space).
I'm thinking something supremely Lovecraftian here... Far Realm, or even incorporating the Lovecraft mythos directly into the Realms... what if the Spellplague and the planeshifting of Evermeet are caused not by the conjunction of Abeir and Toril, but by the surfacing of R'lyeh... which, due to its location, would have sundered Evermeet had the island not shifted into the Feywild due to powerful contingency High Magic (yes, I'm using 4E terminology here; the Spellplague necessitates 4E, not vice-versa)... and the pyramids are keeping the Great Old Ones imprisoned? 
Following this line of thought, we have a "future" (4E) Realms about to be overrun by the followers (mind flayers and various other monstrous races) of a certain well-known squid-headed deity, and the Shades in control of the seals on the prison of the Great Old Ones. In fact, the creation of Evermeet itself could have been the original trigger for the surfacing of the city, given that we are told in the GHotR (page 10) that "the spell extends both back and forward in the mists of time" (also see the sidebar on page 11). This is a post-Spellplague Realms that I can work with... but I probably won't in the immediate future, as I have too much already developed for my alternate unplagued Realms timeline. Now that I have something workable lore-wise that doesn't involve the gods acting like psychopathic teenagers, maybe there will be a (somewhat postponed) Spellplague in my Realms down the road... we'll see what happens.
</edit>
Edit 2: That's why Evermeet was raised where it was... the elves found the focused Weave energies keeping R'lyeh imprisoned, but did not find the city itself. The Weave nexus was a natural choice for the magic-hungry elves, and so they unknowingly raised Evermeet directly over the city. The wards keeping the city trapped also kept it protected from the cataclysmic reshaping of the geography and geology. In addition, perhaps Evermeet is sundered by the rising city... hubris should always have as many negative consequences as possible. So, we have a shattered elven nation, a risen city of evil, and an evil empire controlling the wards imprisoning even greater evils... whether the Shades know about the last point or not is up to the DM. If that's not "points of light" I don't know what is... and we did it without messing with the map of Faerun. As for the timeline, this can happen whenever you want it to, and doesn't require a century of aftershocks and recovery time.
</edit> |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 02 Aug 2009 18:32:07 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 18:43:39
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I'm definitely of the mind that whatever the imprisoned horror under Ascore is, it is incorporeal/insubstantial in nature. And I also agree with Wooly that the smaller pyramids act as a "focus" for the whatever Epic/High Magic ritual was used to imprison the being.
Maybe it *is* a Far Realms entity -- we already know that the Netherese did go there (the Night Parade was one of the results).
Hmmm... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 01:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Maybe it *is* a Far Realms entity -- we already know that the Netherese did go there (the Night Parade was one of the results).
I'm not so sure about that. Or, rather, it just feels a little too convenient for me to assume that whatever is bound is Far Realm-related. An other-worldly/planar entity maybe, but not anything from the Realm Beyond. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 01:54:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Maybe it *is* a Far Realms entity -- we already know that the Netherese did go there (the Night Parade was one of the results).
I'm not so sure about that. Or, rather, it just feels a little too convenient for me to assume that whatever is bound is Far Realm-related. An other-worldly/planar entity maybe, but not anything from the Realm Beyond.
Maybe -- I don't generally use a lot of Far Realms stuff in my games, so it would work in my group (and everyone is a huge Cthulhu fan, too). In any case, I don't think this being has a physical form... perhaps it is an incorporeal Elder Evil? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 06:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Maybe -- I don't generally use a lot of Far Realms stuff in my games, so it would work in my group (and everyone is a huge Cthulhu fan, too). In any case, I don't think this being has a physical form... perhaps it is an incorporeal Elder Evil?
Well, there are a few of those if you're using the Cthulhu mythos, and I'm sure there's at least one in the Elder Evils book (my copy hasn't arrived yet).
Anyway, I'll definitely be using my latest theory; I refuse to let pointless Never-Dissipating Aberrations get in the way of my eradication of the Sellplague from my Realms. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 16:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
<snip>
Maybe it *is* a Far Realms entity -- we already know that the Netherese did go there (the Night Parade was one of the results).
On this note, I'm looking for more information about the Night Parade; all I know is what's in the GHotR (the Year of Nightmares, and Myrmeen Lhal's quest in the Year of the Serpent, the details of which story I'm familiar with). What I don't have is details of the original Netherese voyage in the Year of Nightmares that created the Night Parade. Can anyone refer me to additional sources for this lore?
 Apologies for derailing my own scroll... again... keep the pyramid theories coming. I'm liking the Elder Evil prison theory for now, though, if only because I love crafts. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 17:56:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
<snip>
Maybe it *is* a Far Realms entity -- we already know that the Netherese did go there (the Night Parade was one of the results).
On this note, I'm looking for more information about the Night Parade; all I know is what's in the GHotR (the Year of Nightmares, and Myrmeen Lhal's quest in the Year of the Serpent, the details of which story I'm familiar with). What I don't have is details of the original Netherese voyage in the Year of Nightmares that created the Night Parade. Can anyone refer me to additional sources for this lore?
Apologies for derailing my own scroll... again... keep the pyramid theories coming. I'm liking the Elder Evil prison theory for now, though, if only because I love crafts.
Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 22:45:48
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| Thanks, Kuje! Any thoughts from you about what's up with those pyramids in Ascore? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 23:42:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Thanks, Kuje! Any thoughts from you about what's up with those pyramids in Ascore?
Not really sure. :) To be honest, I don't recall these pyramids but I've been reading this thread. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 01:32:37
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Hrm... well, it's not in Ascore, it's not red, and it doesn't say how many sides it has, but I found a reference to another pyramid in the same general area of Faerun:
quote:
from The Wilderness, book 1 of The North boxed set, page 55:
Like Eaerlann and many places, the town of Karse was abandoned after the fall of Ascalhorn and left to ruin. Both normal forest and black, petrified oaks have grown throughout the ruins. The only building that weather the centuries without scars is an eerie, black pyramid that pulses and flickers with a sickly green radiance.
For this one, I like the idea that it has something to do with Wulgreth. The only connection of the site to Karsus is that it's where he came crashing down to Toril and where his followers built their settlement. Wulgreth was there long before being landed on by Karsus forced him into lichdom, and something like that just screams "PHYLACTERY!" 
Edit: Oh, and Wooly: Your mangling of the name of FR5 earlier in this scroll was an honest mistake. The above-quoted boxed set, The North, also mentions those evil red pyramids. Unfortunately, it doesn't say anything new about them...  [/edit] |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 16 Aug 2009 01:37:11 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 05:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin.
Hrm... Villains Lorebook doesn't mention the Netherese or the origins of the Night Parade at all... anyone know if this is something that's covered in the novel? Thanks! Yeah, I know it took me a while to look this up; other Realms projects and real life conspire to keep me behaving like headless poultry...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 07:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin.
Hrm... Villains Lorebook doesn't mention the Netherese or the origins of the Night Parade at all... anyone know if this is something that's covered in the novel? Thanks! Yeah, I know it took me a while to look this up; other Realms projects and real life conspire to keep me behaving like headless poultry...
The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.
My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 09:28:31
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I also don't like that the Netherese are responsible for everything, but I like the origin from the Demiplane of Nightmares as that place is too neglected (diaboli ).
Edit: Nice description of the Night Parade and its history can be found in Bestiary of the Realms 2.
Edit 2: Now that I've read the thread, to be on topic, I've used Ascore as a part of a planar campaign, and I didn't like the idea of a trapped great evil, there's nothing more cliche than that. Need to check my notes, the theory doesn't respect canon much tough. |
Edited by - Quale on 02 Sep 2009 16:25:01 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 23:59:30
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The story ...
The pyramids of Ascore were built shortly after the Sundering (c. -24 000 DR) by a group of human, northmen maghs. They worked their elemental arcana trying to temper the catastrophic effects of the Alfar ritual that destroyed their great island in the far north, seriously injured the world and disrupted the balanced flow of Skein (Weave) energies. The pyramids were placed at the great gatherings of this mystical energy that invigorated Uthera (Chauntea). These Askar were the meeting places of the linnorm currents, core ley line conduits of whose utility their shamans learned long ago through ritualistic communion with the norn fey spirits. Along with the disturbance of the natural cycles there existed a threat of Hawoek, the reality of conflict and obliteration (imagine it like Abyss, Blood Rift and Golarion's Abaddon plane merged together) began to seep in.
The pyramids were organized according to the primary rune, the Amber Spiral. 13 five-angled pyramids (13 and 5 belong to the Fibonacci sequence) formed a Golden Mean pattern of etheric vortexes, optimally accumulating and emiting the Skein waves. The balance of energies is crucial for health and healing, It was like giving an acupuncture to a world. 5 was the sacred rune, in their arcana, the alchemical fifth element is the man, the race of destiny. Psionics were used in the construction of the pyramids and the tuning of the crystals. The megalithic lore came from the fey who build Megaliths (from Mystaran Immortals book) during the Age of the First Sun to change the nature of time. Now I'm digressing too much into homebrew. Anyway it was all fine for a while, only a few daemonic proto-cysts from Hawoek formed in Uthera's body (particularly sensitive part, the Bloodstone Lands). Maghs scattered among many human tribes, most of their knowledge distorted and evolved into other traditions of arcana over the ages. Through elemental alchemy some became giants and titans and perished in conflicts with gods. Much later dwarves of Delzoun found this place and reconizing its exceptional natural beauty built a city there.
The fall of Netheril damaged some of the pyramid complexes. A lot of daemoncysts and actual planar rifts appeared in Narfell (grew in power) and towards the pole creating the Demonlands. An eastern colony of Delzoun in the Tortured Lands became the realm of the chaos dwarves. The pyramids of Ascore turned red (violet is their ideal color, work best at the highest spectral frequency) and started ''leaking'' Skein essences, pretty close to collapsing. This was the time when great evil appeared in Ascore, the phaerimm. For them this stuff is like a god-nectar, they become like near mindless junkies around it, reduced to basic instincts. That includes territoriality, ironically the phaerimm have become Ascore's great protectors.
On the other side in the plane of Scyrnel (the Elemental Core), there's Vendulf, once a skalfen (of the Black Lions) warlorld of the Savage Frontier (basically Uthgar with portfolios of protection, guardianship, safety, vigilance, territory, wards, runes, honor, duty, clan, brotherhood, skill-at-arms, mists) whose petitioners fight a glorious battle in the misty, etherial, barrow-realm of Vendelheim against the never-ending hordes of Hawoek, trying to break into the real(er) world.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 00:48:57
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Very cool storyline, Quale! As a community, I think we've been individually very creative in explaining this great mystery of Realmslore... and it makes me no less intrigued as to what Ed's (NDA'd) take on them is. All I really know from my exchange with Ed is, they are not related to either the Shadevari or the Skullport skulls. That's all I could get out of him, so this NDA is solid.
I'm also curious as to what the possible effects of the Spellplague on these pyramids would be... they're definitely magical, after all... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 03:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.
My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.
I almost missed this! Any chance of sharing with your fellow scribes? Please? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 09:45:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Very cool storyline, Quale! As a community, I think we've been individually very creative in explaining this great mystery of Realmslore... and it makes me no less intrigued as to what Ed's (NDA'd) take on them is. All I really know from my exchange with Ed is, they are not related to either the Shadevari or the Skullport skulls. That's all I could get out of him, so this NDA is solid.
I'm also curious as to what the possible effects of the Spellplague on these pyramids would be... they're definitely magical, after all...
Thanks, hope my homebrew terms-stuff isn't too confusing.
Forgot to mention, there are a few known pyramidal complexes like Ascore, tough they had a different history. There's Karse (from Askar) in the High Forest. The main pyramid is black, neatly sealed by heavy magic (a fortunate side-effect of Karsus's random experiments). And there are the bloodforges in the Utter East. Ever wondered why there are some northmen there  . The Magar's Hill (etymology from ''maghs'') pyramid(s)in Amn. In Bezantur there's a daemonic temple to Septice (similar to Golarion's Apollyon, the archdaemon of pestilence, canonically it's Jubilex's temple), way older than believed. They call it Uthera's Thorn and its purpose is being like an anti-pyramid.
The Spellplague effects, I never considered it for this campaign. I guess it would cause some of the complexes to overload, maybe blow up, creating new daemoncysts and planar rifts, ripping the prime reality further apart, nature itself would become malicious and self-destructive, I don't know, bees would die out, stillborn and daemonic-tainted babies... That's not really original, roll a wild magic table. My ''Spellplagues'' happen in the past so there's room for growing and developing an idea, making consistency. Not all jumbled up with RSEs at the same time making wonder how does this world managed to survive. Spellplagues should have happen retroactively, like irregularities and disturbances in time, overwriting and creating a better FR dimension.
Shadevari, that wasn't really an option for Ascore, I play them as weak creatures, the muliverse grew and evolved, and they stayed the same, (a)pathetic. And Shar (called Nocs) in my homebrew is not really evil, more alien and unaligned. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 10:18:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin.
Hrm... Villains Lorebook doesn't mention the Netherese or the origins of the Night Parade at all... anyone know if this is something that's covered in the novel? Thanks! Yeah, I know it took me a while to look this up; other Realms projects and real life conspire to keep me behaving like headless poultry...
The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.
My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.
You mean that in your game the netherese were not obvious Gillan-fans?
I agree completely with this. Ever since the Slade version of the Netherese came out I have ignored the canon version of the empire. The bits I got from Elminster's Ecology always gave me more idea and inspiration for the ancient mages. I never liked the idea that the ancient history of the Realms should be to detailed, a loose outline is better when running a campaign and trying to envision the Realms for yourself.
The same goes for the Nightparade (my favourite non-Ed Realms novel), the idea that they were Netherese was one more I have happily ignored (and actually forgotten). |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 14:54:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.
My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.
I almost missed this! Any chance of sharing with your fellow scribes? Please?
It's probably not for everybody's taste, and still a bit fuzzy (but that's OK for my game, since the changes do not alter the present gaming setting too much, i.e., around 1350 / 1360 DR). Basically, in my Realms, around -500 DR, the human lands of western Faerūn were carved up between three empires:
* Calim empire, spanning current-day Calimshan, Amn, Tethyr. This is, to a large extent, the Shoon empire, which would have to be advanced in the timeline with regard to its place in the official GHotR timeline, but similar ideas. The Calim empire is still the most ancient empire in existence, with considerable influence from elemental extraplanar beings. It used to be a rival of the Imaskari empire (which was also different from the canon version);
* Netheril - still an empire of mages, but probably more decadent, and more centralized, in a way. Some inspiration drawn from ancient Rome (for the general ambiance and political organisation) and Alphatia (from OD&D / Known World / Mystara) - an imperial court brimming with intrigue, with an emperor and the lot. The lands occupied by Netheril (the human lands stretching from the Sword Coast, across core Netheril, to the Great Glacier and the Moonsea lands) were once part of the Calim empire, but rebelled when the Calim empire has too much of its resources tied up in a war with Imaskar.
* Unther - including current-day Chessenta, Chondath, Turmish, the coastlands of present-day Sembia, and the southern Dragon Coast lands (Westgate being its westernmost outpost). Unther (despite everything a successor state of Imaskar) and Calim have been skirmishing for most of their existence, but neither has risked a major all-out war ever since the God-Kings beat back the Calim in the wake of the collapse of the Imaskari empire.
The Fields of the Dead form a buffer zone between Netheril and Calim; "Jhaamdath" (which, as a nation, never existed in my campaign) forms a buffer zone between Calim and Unther. There are other empires at the time: Mulhorand (stretching east and south), Narfell, and Raumathar.
Net result: during a struggle over the succession of the Netherese throne, one of the princes of Netheril flees to Calim, manipulates his way to the top of the Calim court, and provokes the Netherese into invading Calim lands (right into a trap laid by the renegade Prince). The counter-invasion almost brings Netheril to its knees, but this triggers a reaction by Unther (so now it's a three-way war). As the situation deteriorates for every side, everybody gets out the equivalent of nuclear weapons, triggering the desertification of Netheril, resulting in what is now Anauroch, and, ultimately, in Karssu trying for the Doomsday Weapon by trying to replace Mystryl. End result - Unther and Calim seriously weakened, as a large part of their armies are wiped out while they were going at each other on the fields of "Jhaamdath", when that bit of real estate was turned into the Vilhon Reach. Unther lost control over lands north of the Vilhon Reach (not enough troops to hold them); plagues force them to withdraw from Chondath. Calim is seriously weakened as the overwhelming majority of its armies are wiped out in Netheril and Jhaamdath.
Given the "epic war", I am also tempted to move the Narfell-Raumathar conflict around to coincide with this war, so that several major magical conflagrations occur at the same time. That would be one hell of an RSE.
In my campaign, Anauroch is more akin to a post-apocalyptic wasteland (no Bedine; I always thought those were out of place). In Anauroch time and space are distorted. There are areas (and not fixed and stable ones, either) where are far larger "on the inside" than they are on the map, similar to the Direwood in the High Forest. In some areas, there is "overlap" between the Prime Material Plane and other planes, in particular the Abyss. The chaotic environment has basically made all travel and caravan routes across Anauroch very dangerous, and near-impossible as a long-term solution, because although it is possible to find a way between the areas of dimensional distortion, the areas of stability, and the areas of distortion are not stable. The "recent history" will still include the Time of Troubles and, ironically, the ToT will stabilize Anauroch enough for the Zhents to be able to set up a stable caravan route through Anauroch.
I am not yet clear on the role of the Phaerimm and the Sharn in all this mess, but at present, my thoughts are something along these lines: the Phaerimm are still a race of powerful sorcerers (a lot of inspiration drawn from Xaeyruudh's work here), but basically isolationist with regard to the Netherese... until the Doomsday weapons deployed by the Netherese and the Calim started threatening their cosy caverns - so they retaliated with the lifedrain spells (whose effects are accelerated in comparison with canon). Combined with the spatial and temporal distortions caused by some of the Doomsday weapons (threatening to drag parts of Toril into the Lower Planes), and the sudden demise of Mystryl, the sharn intervene to raise a barrier to contain the fallout (limiting the expansion of Anauroch, and, incidentally, locking in all Phaerimm who happened to be in the area of effect, as the barrier also blocks any creatures that might try and come through the planar rifts).
As I said, it's probably not for everybody's taste. I like it, personally, because the history of my most successful (more like "least unsuccessful") attempt at world design had such a conflict at its core. I got a lot of inspiration from Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age, from Greyhawk (the conflagrations!), Warhammer (my Anauroch is very similar to the Chaos Wastes, and apocalyptic use of magic), and some other sources I forgot. Of course, though I had some fun writing up the background, it had little use for direct gaming purposes (the present-day locales, etc.). I drifted away from that attempt to FR (which did not satisfy me on all levels, but which was a very playable world), and when the ancient history of the Realms was locked down, I made an attempt to get an alternate way to the same present (for me, the era of the Grey Box realms). Although I have made serious changes to the present-day Utter East, Zakhara, and some of the other continents, the change in history does not affect the present-day core Realms much. The only "canon" area that is seriously affected is Anauroch (no Bedine). Anauroch got limited coverage anyway (I never liked the placement of the Bedine in Anauroch much, either), so was easily changed.
There are probably some holes and inconsistencies in the whole write-up (e.g., what are the elven and dwarven kingdomes doing in the meanwhile?), but time and checking against the GHotR will probably solve that. And, importantly, the details do not matter for a game set in the Grey Box era (say, 1345DR-1357DR), because the current day Realms are not much affected. More intellectual spielerei than anything else. |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 16:11:06
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I can't remember if I mentioned this upthread (I recall asking about these a while back), but when I used the Ascore Pyramids last year in a campaign where the "something evil" was an immensely powerful former Netherese Lich (an associate of Karsus) who had taken up residence there.
The twist was that he had moved there in penance to Mystrl/Mystra as a result of his role in the original fall of Netheril. His "task" was to guard the 13 pyramids as they were one of several crucial "anchor points" for the Weave scattered over the surface of Toril.
My rationale for there being 13 of them, and the unusual colour/material they were made of was that was needed precisely to anchor the Weave!
The last act of my campaign was my players rushing back to Ascore with a macguffin needed to prevent the Shadovar accessing the Anchor point, the said Shadovar and their city having materialised a few days before directly above the pyramids. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 00:35:30
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| Thanks for sharing, Thauramarth! The "headless poultry" syndrome is still with me; but I have a four-day weekend to get my lore in better order to be shared. The pyramids have not been a topic of R&D, however; I'm working on points west of Evermeet (or where it used to be, in my Realms). |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 20 Sep 2009 00:36:01 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2009 : 09:59:18
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| Another theory worth mentioning is the spellweavers, who left pyramidal alien ruins of their collapsed portal grid, it's believed that the Tortured Lands and the Fallen Lands have some (Dragon 338), they might be involved directly or as a prototype source of inspiration for the builders. |
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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2009 : 10:20:01
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| Oh, I do love to read about 'hombrew' versions of the Realms! |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 14:21:10
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hmm, I likely haven't been clear about this, so should be.
The "lore" that was cut out of LEoF regarding the pyramids at Ascore isn't NDA. It simply no longer exists. The designer who wrote that particular section of the book came up with some stuff on the pyramids. The chapter was heavily re-written and that material never saw the light of day. It wasn't edited out and kept in a locked box of FR lore tidbits, it essentially was over-written and no longer exists except in the first drafts of the product.
If you asked WotC to release the material they have on the pyramids of Ascore you would be met by very blank stares.
Oh, and it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari.
-- George Krashos
I have to ask just to clarify. When you say that it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari, you are referring to the "lore" that was written up by another designer for LEoF correct? So Ed's original purpose for the pyramids is still out there and valid canon-wise, right? |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 03:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
I have to ask just to clarify. When you say that it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari, you are referring to the "lore" that was written up by another designer for LEoF correct? So Ed's original purpose for the pyramids is still out there and valid canon-wise, right?
As I understand it, yes... and it's lore that (along with other interesting stuff like the Cormyr Lineage and the Chosen of Mystryl) will likely never see the light of day, thanks to the time jump; the Spellplague in and of itself is not the problem here. Wizbro doesn't want to tell any stories set in the past, and all that old lore is still under NDA, so it's likely to remain there until Caina needs air conditioning.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 12:16:39
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| In this case I think it's better NDA stays, look how many theories it inspired. |
z455t |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 13:51:01
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Right!
We would probably be disappointed in what WotC did with it anyways. I would rather homebrew it. So if my version sucks. I have only myself to blame.
So what if any speculation can we have reguarding the Pyramids and the Imaskari? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 04 Apr 2010 22:22:39 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 20:02:20
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I understand your position, Kno and Brimstone, but (like you) I'm not interested in what WotC does with it; I'm interested in Ed's original purpose for them (see my post here from 03 Sep 2009). If the NDA gets lifted, that can be revealed. Apart from that, I'm totally on board with the homebrew solution. I have a rather interesting theory (or the beginnings of one) that includes George Krashos' revelation that the Shadevari and Azuth are not involved, so they are not the binding agents for the Shadevari; I need to track down a creation date for the pyramids first.
Re: Brimstone: Interesting idea, but I'm not sure that the Imaskari would be involved; Ascore is a bit far north for them. If any human society is involved, it's Netheril or their precursor state Seventon. Whether even that is accurate depends on exactly how long the pyramids have been there... which I hope to learn shortly.
Edit: I'm good at missing these small posts...
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Another theory worth mentioning is the spellweavers, who left pyramidal alien ruins of their collapsed portal grid, it's believed that the Tortured Lands and the Fallen Lands have some (Dragon 338), they might be involved directly or as a prototype source of inspiration for the builders.
Interesting idea, Quale... is Dragon 338 the only source for the spellweavers, or are they mentioned elsewhere in canon? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 04 Apr 2010 20:04:31 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 09:25:37
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| Another question: wasn't that area Giant territory back in the day? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 15:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
I have to ask just to clarify. When you say that it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari, you are referring to the "lore" that was written up by another designer for LEoF correct? So Ed's original purpose for the pyramids is still out there and valid canon-wise, right?
Yes, I was referring to the lore created for LEoF and cut from that product.
But please note that Ed created Ascore. He did not create the pyramids there. These were an invention of Paul Jaquays in FR5 The Savage Frontier. In his usual "tidy up all those extraneous references and creations" manner, he no doubt can give you a lore-answer for what they are etc if he had to but he does not. He likes a mystery, does our Ed.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Pyramids under Ascore
