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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 01:11:48
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Wondering if anybody has played or seen this prestige class played in the realms and what conversions if any were needed?
I am brainstorming all of my options for an upcoming campaign and this was something that caught my eye.
Harper Lyricist? Moonstar Lyricist? What do you guys think? Are there any organizations or churches in the realms you think it would work with?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 01:15:07
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| The House of the Harp in Silverymoon was once known as the Fochlucan College, so I don't think the name needs to be changed at all. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 14:53:33
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Unless they want to "modernize" the prestige class to the new name it is known by. If people are still running around introducing themselves as Fochlucan Lyricists, they might get a "huh?" in Silverymoon and the North.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2006 : 15:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The House of the Harp in Silverymoon was once known as the Fochlucan College, so I don't think the name needs to be changed at all.
It depends upon your game-the current master is planning on restoring the name once he thinks the revived school is worthy of it; see page 62 of Silver Marches. |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 02:49:53
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IIRC, the Fochlucan Lyrist class is based on 1ed bards, who organized into groups (colleges) based upon their ability level. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.)
Without remembering the exact names (because I'd swear the 23rd level bard was a magna cum laude...which is not a FR bardic college name...), perhaps the levels of lyrist could be tied to the college locations.
At lvl1 a lyrist would begin at the "beginners" college, which would be considered their professional college/home base until they level up/"graduate" to the next college. Perhaps a lyrist, while not adventuring, would teach local students of music and local budding bards as well as spy and meddle and what not. As a lyrist progressed they'd ascend the college circuit. (Since the highest college, IIRC, was Ollahm at Waterdeep, this would put the most sophisticated lyrists in the metropolis. Unless Fochlucan was the crowning college, which would put them Silverymoon.)
At lvl 10 lyrists could garner the magna cum laude moniker and become unbound by location. Perhaps the magnas supervise the system--and the lyrists of each college.
Such a system would force the order to refound the other colleges....which could be an interesting campaign in and of itself. |
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 02:16:28
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There is a growing intiative to refound the Bardic Colleges, as shown with the House of the Harp and Silverymoon. Given Danilo Thann's recent involvement in Tethyr, I imagine an effort may be afoot to refound the bardic college formerly in Zarrespur - if the Order of the Shield doesn't object to what it may see as a "Harper plot".
But the idea of needing to attend each college in order, and one college being more prestigious than another (except perhaps in hosting at that time the foremost luthier of the Realms, or the leading authority on green elf laeralae forms, or what have you) has never been part of Ed's "home Realms", nor of the published Realms.
That said, if you like it that much, you can always adopt it for your campaign. |
Edited by - Vangelor on 24 Apr 2008 02:18:47 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 17:48:53
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| I'd ignore that quoted bit from 1E. I think it's a reflection of the concept of level separation. It doesn't seem right for bards to simply ignore each other because of which schools they've attended. Not only does training become an issue, with that rule, but also the sharing of lore, and membership in organizations like the Harpers. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 18:32:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd ignore that quoted bit from 1E. I think it's a reflection of the concept of level separation. It doesn't seem right for bards to simply ignore each other because of which schools they've attended. Not only does training become an issue, with that rule, but also the sharing of lore, and membership in organizations like the Harpers.
I agree, I think that bit is rather silly. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 24 Apr 2008 18:33:40 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 01:32:41
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I'm inclined to agree.
Some bardic colleges in the Realms likely also double as conservatoriums... places where free-thinking and the discussion of musical theory is regularly made the topic of conversation between bards from many different schools. Here, you don't just learn musical styles... you also learn about music itself -- new ideas for compositions for example, or the creation of new or improved instruments... musical techniques or the like -- all due to the intense interaction of bards from various schools and following myriad techniques. Considering that many types of bards from many of the more diverse lands of the Realms likely all meet at a particular bardic college at some point... the amount of thought, knowledge, news and lore that is swapped around between bards would be phenomenal. And this simply would not occur if the visiting bards were ignored by the majority of other bards presently populating the conservatorium, and all because of which schools they may have attended.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Apr 2008 01:36:57 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 23:28:58
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Good points, Sage.
Thanks, Vangelor. I'm unsure what I'd do with FLs in my campaign because I've never had a player want to enter it for RPing purposes; it seems to come up whenever a player wants crunch. That definitely colors my location-specific thoughts, as I want to encourage the spirit in which the PrC was written.
And thanks for the lore, capnvan. Magna cum laude's a bit too much o' RL!!! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 03:04:16
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| So just tweak it a bit... Change the name of the class, and instead of a specific barding college, tie it to some specific organization of bards. And it doesn't have to be a big, formal organization. It could be something as simple as the students or followers of a particularly notable bard, or a small group started by a group of bards who all came from one area, and who developed their own unique style. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 03:14:57
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Good suggestions, Wooly.
I must have been a bureaucrat in a past life because I never consider creative options.
Maybe this tweaked PrC could be followers of the nefarious lady bard Magna Cumlaud? 
On that note, I'm going to sign off for some sleep. My mind needs a reboot.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 03:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
I must have been a bureaucrat in a past life because I never consider creative options.
Taking an existing idea and putting a different spin on it is a specialty of mine. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 May 2008 03:49:28 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 18:44:09
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
I must have been a bureaucrat in a past life because I never consider creative options.
Who says a bureaucrat could not be creative?
Just saying. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 02 May 2008 18:50:46 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 23:51:37
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LOL. Point well taken.
After further reflection, perhaps I burnt out my creativity as Van Gogh in a pastlife...? That would explain my hankerin for sunflower seeds!  |
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Lunever
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2009 : 16:06:34
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Well, there are bards and bards.
The 1E bard was one the one hand a real adventurer, combining the combat prowess of a skald with the trickery of a stage performer, and on the other hand a mystic figure, knowledgeable in magic and druidic traditions.
He was rather a keeper of druidic oral tradition, like some interpretations of historical celtic bardcraft suggest. In AD&D such an interpretation can be found in "Legends & Lore" from TSR.
To become a bard a human had to dual-class repeatedly, aquiring some capabilities as warrior, thief, wizard and druid.
The bard aquired a level-dependant percentage chance to enslumber or charm creatures.
Any class in 1E would have a title appropriate to the class level, the bard had in addition a barding college dependant of his level. The bardic titles were Rhymer, Lyrist, Sonneteer, Skald, Racaraide, Jongleur, Troubadour, Minstrel, Muse, Lorist, Bard and Master Bard. The barding colleges were (Probationer), Fochlucan, MacFuirmidh, Doss, Canaith, Cli, Anstruth, Ollamh and Magna Alumnae. Most of them are Celtic terms, but it seems the Romans have won in the end. Wait a minute, they actually have!
2E removed the dual-class celtic-style bard from the game and instead introduced a mere entertaining scoundrel concept of a bard. In an attempt to categorize everything bards had to become more thief-like and restrict themselves to arcane magic, instead of having druidic origins.
Originally that bard was intended for Greyhawk/Oerth. I don't know whether there was some implementation in 1E Forgotten Realms.
The Forgotten Realms used the Time-of-Troubles concept to explain away anything strange (Psionics don't exist anymore and all psionicists become suddenly thieves of the same level and so on). That also meant that the barding college were simply declared to have fallen into decline.
Elaine Cunningham used her influence as a renowned AD&D novel author to reintroduce the barding colleges via a novel. In her novel "Elfsong" the riddlemaster Vartain of Calimport and the Harper Danilo Thann investigate the original sites of the barding colleges in Faerun (Elfsong p. 173ff): Fochlucan in Silverymoon (north), MacFuirmidh on Moonshae (west), Doss in Berdusk (Cormyr), Canaith in Zazespur (Tethyr), Cli in ???, Anstruth in Sundabar (north), Ollamh (mispelled "Olamn" in the novel; I'd rather say it is Ollamh, with a celtic "mh" being spoken like a "v" in most other European languages) in Waterdeep (Sword Coast), and Magna Alumnae being as far as I know beyond ranks and local colleges.
The antagonist bard Iriador Wintermist accuses the Harpers to have neglegted bardcraft and lorekeeping, instead having become rather special affairs squads. Imho that also reflects the way DnD has gone. From a boardgame it aspired to a storytelling art, but now declines into becoming a mere board game again, it's sole focus being combat-related spells&feats.
Thus the 3.xE bard is like the 2E bard just an adventuring scoundrel, but at least his spell list shows some druidic relation.
However, I did find in 3E magical bardic instruments named after the barding colleges of old, in the "Magic of Faerun" (resurfacing in the usual content-recycling manner in later sources).
Also, I found the Fochlucan Lyrist to be an incredibly versatile prestige class. Steep skill requirements, but in the end kinda quadruple class, with arcane AND divine bonus caster levels like a mystic theurge, plus bardic music and knowledge, plus fighter-BA, plus being freed from multiclassing xp penalties.
I couldn't find any other mentioning of the colleges in 3E.
So what I'm looking for is:
Browsing through the Elfsong novel I couldn't find where the Cli college is supposed to be in the Forgotten Realms. Is there any source available?
Are there any other sources aside from Elfsong about the barding colleges in FR?
Are the barding colleges mentioned anywhere in 3.xE aside from those magical instruments and the Fochlucan prestige class?
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Parting is all we know from heaven, and all we need of hell. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
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Fochlucan Lyricists in the Realms
