| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 02:59:01
|
I was just thinking about this, at least in part due to the thread on the WOTC boards about essential elements to a Forgotten Realms Campaign, and I started thinking about what guidlines that you, as the fans, would come up with to help guide new authors and designers away from potential pitfalls upon first arriving in the Realms.
I have two that come to the top of my mind.
Be careful when you make ancient holy sites that are tied to any specific deities, since many gods don't date back all that far back. No ancient necromantic shrines to Velsharoon, no 5000 year old sites to Tymora, etc. I think we tend to think of gods as ancient, in the "Real World" and sometimes it causes us to forget that in the Realms some of the gods are quite young, from a cosmic point of view.
The other guideline I would come up with would be that elves in Faerun are the same height as humans. I hate it when the "defalt" D&D elven height keeps coming in in various novels and books.
Anyone else have some guidelines that come up off the top of your heads?
|
|
|
Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:21:55
|
I would say that they should try to feature somethings that are mostly specific to the realms and not to focus on generic stuff. Examples being to include Gold Dwarves, Strongheart Halflings, Star Elves and other races specific to FR.
There are so many rich new races, it is silly always to fall back on some of the default races. Now, I know you need some to keep the general D&D populace happy, but let's see some specifics - and I don't mean as token characters, either.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
 |
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:34:05
|
But then you have some of our fellow scribes who get rankled becuase you have a party of Arctic Dwarves, Avariels, Song Dragon Bards, Half-golems, Halfings and Human Clerics, that they feel is a bit TOO diverse. I personally love that particular party, but I can see the point in it being a bit of a long shot to actually have gotten together.
That having been said, I see your point. Why is the dwarf in a group always a Shield dwarf, the elf often a moon elf, the halfling always a lightfoot, etc. Good point CF. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:34:48
|
I think it is crucial for players to have a general feel for the deities. The deities are an intregal part of the realms and are talked about/mentioned commonly in day to day life. Whether it's asking for Chauntea's blessing for crops or praying to avoid Umberlee's wrath before going on a ship, the deities need to have a presence.
This would include making divine casters worship a particular deity (or deities), not worshipping "nature" or "an ideal".
|
|
|
|
Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:37:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
That having been said, I see your point. Why is the dwarf in a group always a Shield dwarf, the elf often a moon elf, the halfling always a lightfoot, etc. Good point CF.
I think it's okay to always have the standard (shield, mooon, lightfoot etc...), however, it's not okay to have just a plain elf or dwarf and not know the FR subraces. I know many people new to FR just use the "standard" elf or dwarf, in my opinion they should get to know what the "standard" elf or dwarf is in FR. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:37:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
This would include making divine casters worship a particular deity (or deities), not worshipping "nature" or "an ideal".
You do realize this is true in the Realms right now? See pages 22-23 of the FRCS. |
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:38:36
|
my first thoughts on this subject are.. flesh out some new areas for us readers to be able to explore with you in the book. do the research that shows realms specific material, with realms specific sub races, classes, religions, and titles. Steer away from generic D&D main stream material, the realms is not greyhawk. Always, always, always add some new bits of realms lore that we who seek, will be able to soak up and talk about here on this great site  .
try something new, I know that there are certain requirements involved that would to need to be used for "sales" purposes to satisfy the masses, but think out side the box, while still keeping the realms, the realms at the same time. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:40:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
You do realize this is true in the Realms right now? See pages 22-23 of the FRCS.
I do know this...perhaps I misunderstood KnightErrantJR's post. I was under the impression that he was looking for things that make the realms what they are and are crucial for people new to the setting to understand.
|
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 03:45:32
|
| Well, I was thinking more about new designers and writers coming to the setting, especially if they have worked on D&D before, but not Forgotten Realms, but I probably could have been clearer. Besides, Champions of Ruin skirting the rule you and Arivia were discussing with Lossarwyn (who many of us ended up agreeing in another thread must have a divine sponsor that his followers don't know about, and just think that the aspect of Nature is granting them spells). |
|
|
|
Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 07:39:11
|
I would encourage new authors or designers to maintain as many open ended dialogues as possible with former game designers and authors, so that the ‘new guys’ start out already understanding the major reasons why veteran designers and writers made the major setting decisions they did (i.e., Time of Troubles, Cosmology Changes, Rules Changes, etc..).
This is important if for no other reason that to avoid backsliding (where backsliding means making the same mistakes some other designer/author did, as well as undoing core underlying elements to the setting).
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
|
|
|
Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1732 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 13:41:40
|
First Guideline of Realms Writing: Everything has a story from the lowliest scullery maid to the most powerful king.
Second Guideline of Realms Writing: Everyone is the hero of their own saga; how they treat others outside of their personal sagas determines how many people agree with their "heroic nature."
Third Guideline of Realms Writing: Always open more doors than you close.
Steven
Someone who learned these rules from the Master himself, him of the Weird Beard.  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
|
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 20:25:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
First Guideline of Realms Writing: Everything has a story from the lowliest scullery maid to the most powerful king.
Second Guideline of Realms Writing: Everyone is the hero of their own saga; how they treat others outside of their personal sagas determines how many people agree with their "heroic nature."
Third Guideline of Realms Writing: Always open more doors than you close.
Steven
Someone who learned these rules from the Master himself, him of the Weird Beard.
Fourth Guideline of Realms Writing: Don't leave a body, unless you REALLY mean it, eh Steven?
I think this is a neat thread. I know as a new author myself, I love interacting with my Realmsian elders (in terms of wisdom, not age!).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 22:22:55
|
Hmmm, magic is the life's blood in the realms, but it has fairly strict rules for what it can and cannot do. Please learn the spells in the player's handbook and at least a few realms specific spells. When describing magic, try to do so in a way that the player's can relate to what is being cast (without blatantly saying what spell it is). If you must invent your own spell to be unleashed, try and put it into game terms before putting it onto paper... then let someone critique it.
The next would be, villains are not idiots. Their hirelings usually are not idiots either (they may not be well guided, however). Villains would like to survive and will take measures to ensure their own survival. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 02:49:04
|
| Steven and Erik, thanks for chiming in on this. I definately want this to be a postive, "this is how to do things right" type of thread, and imput like yours definately helps keep it that way. Its good to see your perspectives from the "other side" of things. And everyone else, good ideas, keep them coming. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 13:04:46
|
I'd also include these recommendations and reminders (focused on adventures in the Realms):
-- Use the structure of multiple conflicting power groups (and not just the well-known ones), rather than simply PCs-vs-enemy or PCs-vs-environment. Describe their goals and how they might respond to likely PC actions.
-- Give opportunities for players to make decisions meaningful to their characters and the world. This isn't Realms-specific, but bears repeating.
-- Treat every character with respect and love: this is the same point as 'everything has a story', which applies to everything from magic items to roadside landmarks to local customs.
-- Again, part of Steven's 'Always open more doors than you close': don't try and make the adventure self-contained with a sudden beginning and end. Suggest ways to replace NPCs with people already in the campaign, and don't expect the players to tie up every loose end.
-- Use character and place names in the right styles.
-- Understand what adventurers do in the Realms and how that differs slightly from the norms of D&D.
-- Don't tie the adventure to a particular time period more than is necessary.
-- Treat the Realms as if it is real, as its other creators do. |
Edited by - Faraer on 20 Dec 2005 13:05:51 |
|
|
|
Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 14:22:14
|
Another thing I would say would be to avoid using the cookie cutter villians (Zhentarim, Hillsfar, Orcs, etc.) There are so many different villians and different takes on the Realms, it's easy to find a new enemy everywhere.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 16:34:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Steven and Erik, thanks for chiming in on this. I definately want this to be a postive, "this is how to do things right" type of thread, and imput like yours definately helps keep it that way. Its good to see your perspectives from the "other side" of things. And everyone else, good ideas, keep them coming.
Oh gods and goddesses -- I'm no more right about the "right way" than the next scribe (unless it's Steven, or Elaine, or Eric, or Ed, or Paul, or Lisa, or Richard, or Richard, and so on, and so forth. . .  )
I do like to be of assistance, though.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 17:48:00
|
| Perhaps I should put it this way . . . seeing the guidelines that the people that have proven that they can, "do it right," is something thats interesting for the fans to see. And you did an excellent job, not just telling a story, but telling a story IN THE REALMS in Ghostwalker. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 18:04:36
|
Well thank you.
The next one will be even more of a Realms story.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2005 : 15:33:38
|
<<<-- Use the structure of multiple conflicting power groups (and not just the well-known <<< ones), rather than simply PCs-vs-enemy or PCs-vs-environment. Describe their goals and <<<< how they might respond to likely PC actions.
Yeah, this one is very important. I really like how some authors will be writing a book that's focused say on Hero X facing off against Villain Group Y. However, during their writing, they note that say the Cult of the Dragon might find out this, or that there are some Thayan slavers involved who just throw a little unforeseen monkey wrench into their plans adn then move on their merry way, or that the Harpers misinterpret things and just muck up the process "trying to save the day". There are many power groups in the realms and they do get in each other's way.
|
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1732 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 20:01:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
<<<-- Use the structure of multiple conflicting power groups (and not just the well-known <<< ones), rather than simply PCs-vs-enemy or PCs-vs-environment. Describe their goals and <<<< how they might respond to likely PC actions.
Yeah, this one is very important. I really like how some authors will be writing a book that's focused say on Hero X facing off against Villain Group Y. However, during their writing, they note that say the Cult of the Dragon might find out this, or that there are some Thayan slavers involved who just throw a little unforeseen monkey wrench into their plans adn then move on their merry way, or that the Harpers misinterpret things and just muck up the process "trying to save the day". There are many power groups in the realms and they do get in each other's way.
One of the best things Khelben and Elminster both taught Master Harpers (as Khelben's father and mother taught those of the Harpers in Twilight) is that one Harper alone, with the right words whispered into the right ear, can stop an army. How is noted above and exampled below:
Harper Khael D'rakrell has uncovered a Zhentish plot to ambush the next four trade caravans leaving Starmantle and to frame a local group on the rise known as the Sable Knives who've been horning in on the local Zhent lord's business (or what he sees as his business).
Khael does a little more digging and finds out that at least one of the backers of all these caravans has ties to the Arcane Brotherhood (a suspicion proven in part by all the caravans heading ultimately to Luskan).
With two nights (and a disguise to be two different folk on those nights), Khael drops word to both the Sable Knives (via a rumor noted to one of their more reliable snitches) and the Brotherhood (via a "dropped" scroll with the names of two aliases of the local Zhent lord and his primary enforcer on it). The Zhent plot comes to naught, all three groups are on high alert in that area, but none of them think their covers are blown save the Zhents (and blown only by other evil groups).
See how simple it is? |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
|
|
|
|
Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2005 : 20:11:40
|
Simply and eficient, Steven!  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2005 : 19:15:50
|
| Exactly, that's what makes the realms the realms. The fact that the snitch who informed the sable knives is actually a member of the unseen who then turned around and started spying on the Harper... and then threatened to blackmail her (and drop her name to the Zhents) if she didn't perform a mission for him against some Dragon Cultists who he heard were trying to transport jewels to a dragon that they are trying to convince to become a dracolich... telling the Harper that the jewels must be recovered and returned to "the person that they were stolen from"... who happens to be another Unseen member. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
What Would Your Forgotten Realms Guidelines Be?
