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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Mar 2007 : 20:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Gruen
Absolutely loved the novel. GREAT job!!! I was very much reminded of how I felt after reading the Black Bouquet (where I thought, "Hmm... this Byers guy may just be the next big thing"). Of course, now he is. 
Thank you for such kind words.
I am immensely flattered by the comparison to RLB. Though don't let him catch you saying that or he'll have to come kick my ass with rapiers.
(Him being a nation-class fencer and me being such a novice.)
quote:
I saw a post some time back where someone thought Derst was a half-elf? That's funny because I thought of them as dwarves, on several occasions. Not 100% certain why, but I kept having to remind myself they were human. Shrug.
Hmm. Yeah, I can't seem to find reference to the race of Bars or Derst at all.
I suppose the race of Arya's companions will remain a mystery. Perhaps Derst is a mutt, eh? (Or perhaps a halfling -- that seems plausible, no?)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2007 : 20:21:10
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And on that note, check out this poll I put together:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9085
Literature in the making, folks. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2007 : 22:54:16
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| Heh, for some reason I always thought Glyther'yel was a ghost, and didn't even think twice that she might not be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
765 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 07:07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
The weapons of choice of some of the characters.
That's a really interesting comment -- can you give me a specific case? Perhaps it's just a taste thing, but if you don't think the weapon matches the character (i.e. "works" for the character), I'd be interested to hear who you mean.
Bars and Bilgren are the only ones I can think of who go beyond the "unconventional" -- most of the others have swords or axes.
quote:
Heh. Ok, here's a little story about the gyrspike and how it came to be:
When I first got the commission from Wizards to write Ghostwalker, I said, "ok, I want to make it a *Fighters* book" and since some of my favorite rules at the time were from Complete Warrior, I went all out to put together an assortment of weapons, styles, and techniques that would have verisimilitude and still be really cool. And one that I thought of was the Gyrspike -- I mean, who uses such a thing? And *how*? It was something of a writing challenge for me -- describing a combat with such a bizarre weapon.
Of course, in a fantasy setting, there are people who specialize in odd (or even mundane) weapons, and are known for such a thing -- "weapon of choice," I believe you called it. I thought that, if you gave him an axe, Bilgren would just be some old barbarian type -- boring and cliche. Then again, if you gave him just that little touch of uniqueness, then you did a mess of character development right there, making him distinctive.
Well, Bilgren being one example and despite your explanation, I am still of the opinion that a barbarian (whether he's actually a runaway/exiled Uthgardt or not) in a small frontier town would not have specialized with -- let alone, I'd hazard, ever seen -- a gyrspike. But then, you know what they say about opinions...
Another weapon that struck me as odd was Derst's chain dagger. It seemed -- and especially so when he made the makeshift one after escaping the dungeon -- such a flimsy and worthless weapon to use. I'm surprised Bars never thought of constantly ribbing him each and every time he pulled out that 'toy' for combat.
Funny enough, you mention Bars, but I was quite okay with the fact that a paladin would choose two (light) maces in stead of the steriotypical longsword and shield combination.
After reading Wayfarer I expected Meris to specialize in handaxes and was rather dissapointed that he used a longsword/rapier (it was never quite clear) as primary weapon and only used a handaxe as secondary/throwing weapon. I would have preferred -- since he was using two-weapon fighting -- had he used two handaxes, perhaps even two-weapon 'throwing' them at times. I suppose this was done in order for him to be more familiar with the shatterspike later in the book. By the way -- and I know you have statted it before -- what is the shatterspike again?
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She did, from earlier in the book, take Greyt's/Lyetha's locket. Which may or may not be significant to a followup novel.
Oh. Why was I under the impression that the locket was a gold version of the ring? Was the locket also shaped like a wolf's head? I distinctly recall Dharan having the habit of nervously playing with his gold ring...
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Amra Clearwater isn't a high level druid. According to the Silver Marches supplement, Amra is around the 7th-9th level range, so she's really no match for a hierophant-level druid (sorry, I still think in 2e terms sometimes). Gylther'yel is an old, nay ancient presence -- one of the heavy hitters of the world, almost -- and Amra is just a frontier-town druid.
And even if Gylther'yel *had* been about the same level as Amra, it's entirely possible that the right trap, laid at the right time, and right after a battle that consumed most of Amra's energies, could easily have ensnared the half-elf druid.
Ah. Not having any D&D sourcebooks, I didn't know that. Of course, the battle with Meris would have left Amra 'spell depleted' to some extent too, even though I don't recall her actually getting a spell off before Gylther'yel 'entombed' her anyway.
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In a way, it would be *more* creepy if Dharan manufactured the whole thing: he ended up killing Rhyn, then went through the town and killed a dozen or so children in order to cover it up.
That is the way I interpreted it. Initially, after reading Wayfarer I thought it was Gharask and that Dharan had foolishly surrounded himself with some bad seeds (anything to get the job done afterall), but was 'upstanding' enough to kill his monstrous father. However, as Dharan's character progressed -- and I seem to recall Rhyn seeing Gharask's ghost at one stage -- I more and more got the feeling that Dharan, et al, killed Rhyn, then the other children killing a few birds with one stone. They could have a scapegoat, they could have their sick kicks, they could get rid of Rhyn and Dharan could seem like a (tragic) hero -- something he so desperately always strove to achieve.
quote:
I don't believe I ever had him meditate in the ethereal -- remember that even while physical he could see the ethereal world just as easily as you or I see the physical world. He does do the majority of his traveling through Shadow, but the PrC gives a lot more flexibility with that.
Ah. So he was merely seeing (as he always did) the ethereal while meditating. I thought he actually meditated in the ethereal (makes no sense) or in the shadow world (in order to make use of the shadow heal of the PrC) every day.
Thanks for the great read anyway. Ghostwalker is certainly the best of the four "Fighters" -- not that the others weren't also good, they just each had some glaring problems which yours was thanfully free of. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 14:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
Another weapon that struck me as odd was Derst's chain dagger. It seemed -- and especially so when he made the makeshift one after escaping the dungeon -- such a flimsy and worthless weapon to use. I'm surprised Bars never thought of constantly ribbing him each and every time he pulled out that 'toy' for combat.
Actually (and not that any of it is actually published and out there, etc.), in some of Bars and Derst's early adventures, there is a considerable amount of ribbing that goes on about the chain-dagger . . . that is, until Derst proves the usefulness of the weapon. If ribbing had gone on in Ghostwalker (an opponent mocking Derst for his weapon), it's entirely possible Bars might have stepped up to defend him.
But yes, indeed -- I could have seized upon that. I guess I thought the reparte quite complete already. 
quote:
After reading Wayfarer I expected Meris to specialize in handaxes and was rather dissapointed that he used a longsword/rapier (it was never quite clear) as primary weapon and only used a handaxe as secondary/throwing weapon. I would have preferred -- since he was using two-weapon fighting -- had he used two handaxes, perhaps even two-weapon 'throwing' them at times.
Ah yes, that would indeed be cool!
But in "Wayfarer," unless I'm recalling it incorrectly -- he had the axe as a gift, and brought it along with him. Later, he pulled one of his half-brother's swords when fighting him, and used that as a primary sort of weapon, only whipping out the axe to startle his foe off-balance (and thus win). It's ironic that you'd talk about that not working for you, since part of the intention of "Wayfarer" was to establish why he might fight with a sword/axe combination.
But you know what they say about intentions . . .
quote:
I suppose this was done in order for him to be more familiar with the shatterspike later in the book. By the way -- and I know you have statted it before -- what is the shatterspike again?
The shatterspike, according to the DMG, is a +1 longsword with special qualities when it comes to sundering/breaking weapons (i.e. makes it much easier to break a foe's blade). It was first introduced in "Sword and Fist" (which is also where the ghostwalker prestige class is from). Walker's shatterspike is a +2 (or +3) ghost touch shatterspike (longsword).
quote:
quote:
She did, from earlier in the book, take Greyt's/Lyetha's locket. Which may or may not be significant to a followup novel.
Oh. Why was I under the impression that the locket was a gold version of the ring? Was the locket also shaped like a wolf's head? I distinctly recall Dharan having the habit of nervously playing with his gold ring...
You recall correctly, sir! Dharan did have a habit of playing with his gold ring . . . much like Walker's habit of playing with his silver ring.
The locket itself was not shaped like a wolf's head, I don't believe -- I think (page 104) it was "gold, in the shape of a five-pointed leaf, cunningly cut and delicately formed. Tiny Elvish runes were etched on the back." And Arya slips it into her pocket "without thinking," so it isn't like she purposefully stole it -- Greyt just startles her.
It's the kind of thing where you're looking at a pack of tic-tacs at the store and you get startled by an old friend (or, more appropriately, someone you don't like very much, who just oozes the charm) and put it in your pocket along with your wallet, without recalling that you'd held it in your hand.
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quote:
Amra Clearwater isn't a high level druid. According to the Silver Marches supplement, Amra is around the 7th-9th level range, so she's really no match for a hierophant-level druid (sorry, I still think in 2e terms sometimes).
Ah. Not having any D&D sourcebooks, I didn't know that. Of course, the battle with Meris would have left Amra 'spell depleted' to some extent too, even though I don't recall her actually getting a spell off before Gylther'yel 'entombed' her anyway.
Point. Not that the sourcebook is overly important to the plotting of the novel, but I'm pointing out that Amra is an established character in the setting, with an established power level (as is Unddreth, the watch captain, and Geth Stonar, the town speaker -- who I think I sent away early in the book because his name occasionally gives me the giggles, owing to a campaign joke from some time ago).
Yeah, Gylther'yel had the drop on Amra -- snagged her with a spell that kept her from concentrating or casting any sort of magic herself.
quote:
quote:
In a way, it would be *more* creepy if Dharan manufactured the whole thing: he ended up killing Rhyn, then went through the town and killed a dozen or so children in order to cover it up.
That is the way I interpreted it. Initially, after reading Wayfarer I thought it was Gharask and that Dharan had foolishly surrounded himself with some bad seeds (anything to get the job done afterall), but was 'upstanding' enough to kill his monstrous father. However, as Dharan's character progressed -- and I seem to recall Rhyn seeing Gharask's ghost at one stage -- I more and more got the feeling that Dharan, et al, killed Rhyn, then the other children killing a few birds with one stone. They could have a scapegoat, they could have their sick kicks, they could get rid of Rhyn and Dharan could seem like a (tragic) hero -- something he so desperately always strove to achieve.
I think you're dead-on target. 
quote:
Thanks for the great read anyway. Ghostwalker is certainly the best of the four "Fighters" -- not that the others weren't also good
I'm glad you enjoyed!
Cheers
Mod edit: Fixed the quote coding to get rid of the funky blue text. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Mar 2007 16:25:56 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 05:38:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You recall correctly, sir! Dharan did have a habit of playing with his gold ring . . . much like Walker's habit of playing with his silver ring.
The locket itself was not shaped like a wolf's head, I don't believe -- I think (page 104) it was "gold, in the shape of a five-pointed leaf, cunningly cut and delicately formed. Tiny Elvish runes were etched on the back." And Arya slips it into her pocket "without thinking," so it isn't like she purposefully stole it -- Greyt just startles her.
I shall have to re-read that part, as well as the scene where Dharan dies. Was there any significance to the gold ring then? Did only the locket and the silver ring have the inscriptions, or only the locket? |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 13:42:51
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To reply:
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
I shall have to re-read that part, as well as the scene where Dharan dies. Was there any significance to the gold ring then? Did only the locket and the silver ring have the inscriptions, or only the locket?
The significance of the gold ring was that it was a replacement of the silver ring. Greyt and Walker both rub it/fiddle with it, which implies their connection.
Only the locket has an inscription -- the rings are both quite plain of words.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 14:50:17
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Excellent end to an excellent book. Walker has hopefully found peace in Kelemvor's realm now, no longer being caught between life and death.
Speaking of the song at the end, which real world artist would you find best to perform it? (weren't expecting that question either huh?)  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 22:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Excellent end to an excellent book.
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words, and I'm glad you enjoyed.
quote:
Walker has hopefully found peace in Kelemvor's realm now, no longer being caught between life and death.
Maybe, maybe not--maybe we'll find out one day.
quote:
Speaking of the song at the end, which real world artist would you find best to perform it? (weren't expecting that question either huh?)
That is indeed an unexpected question (you're good at those!), and one to which I'm not sure I have an answer.
Sage and I had a long discussion about this, I think in my Chamber of the Sages thread. He would probably be interested in hearing this answer, and you might glean more if he'd be so kind as to point you to the appropriate page (it was fairly recent, I think!).
About the Nightingale's Song:
One doesn't necessarily need to set the words to music. It's a "song" the way the Song of Roland is a song. It's rather a heroic ballad: an epic poem performed orally in a way that is similar to singing, but isn't quite the same.
The biggest consideration is that the song is supposed to be in ELVISH, and so to write the whole thing, we would need a Faerunian Elvish dictionary (specifically the dialect of the Northlands--think the Elvish spoken in Silverymoon) and a skilled Elven translator.
It's also MUCH longer than the excerpt printed on the page, and I don't have the whole epic ballad version written (will I eventually? who knows!). That's what the novel is for: The full Nightingale's Song is the Realms version of Ghostwalker, albeit in a different genre (novel for us, heroic ballad for them).
(This is where I go all metafictional and say that, when Arya told me the story of Ghostwalker, she performed the whole ballad for me and I copied out my favorite part, translated into modern English. But wouldn't that just be whack?)
It's also worth noting that just because Arya didn't originally intend it to be put to music doesn't mean it *hasn't* been. There have been numerous performances by many singers, poets, and musicians, owing to the popularity of the story (like most stories in the Realms that come to us as novels), and it is a favored piece for a number of bards in the Realms (and at least one who has traveled the planes beyond). None sing it quite like Arya did, but the various interpretations over the intervening years have been remarkable.
And the original "Nightingale's Song" certainly isn't the *only* version of the story. As of the 4e FR, a century has passed since the events of the novel: plenty of time for bits to be forgotten, passed on differently, tweaked, re-imagined, etc. In much the same way that we take classic works of literature from the last century or earlier and re-imagine them, writers in the Realms (which has such a large bardic tradition) might retell stories or just borrow liberally from existing works.
I suspect that with the advent of the Spellplague, the oral histories and ballads would survive better than written works, so unless it has been lost, the Nightingale's Song is still performed in 1479, and certainly not in one consistent form. There is one particular work called The Ghost and the Maiden, which is a transcription/re-imagining of "The Nightingale's Song" into chapbook format, written by none other than our friend Catalan the Mad, the fancyname (pseudonym) of Alin Cateln. (And let me tell you, that Catalan is a loonie.)
Catalan's chapbook is as close as the Realms has to our novel version of the Ghostwalker story, condensed to about 80 pages, and is more a fairy tale than factual/realism. Most Realmsian children--particularly those who live near dark woods, in rural settings, or under the thumb of evil oppressors, know some version of the "dark-avenger" story: "The Nightingale" is the heroine, a red-haired princess who is inexorably drawn to a dark shadow called "the Ghost," and helps him vanquish the foes who had wronged him in life. Depending on where the story is told, you may get a happy or unhappy ending. Catalan's chapbook itself has a happy ending.
But to skip all these issues and answer your original question: Which real world artist would you get to perform it?
The performance would be more lyrical/poetry than actual song, but anyone with a really good voice and a strong delivery would do it justice. I would want to tap a singer-songwriter with a really, really good voice, like Tori Amos or Aimee Mann. I think Tori in parituclar would get a huge kick out of singing a song in Elvish as well.
Cheers
P.S. Also, no promises, but you may see something in Downshadow about Realms literature. We'll see! |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 03 Mar 2009 15:12:55 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 23:23:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Sage and I had a long discussion about this, I think in my Chamber of the Sages thread. He would probably be interested in hearing this answer, and you might glean more if he'd be so kind as to point you to the appropriate page (it was fairly recent, I think!).
Indeed. 'Tis here.
...
This is hot stuff, Erik! But I want to process it properly before I bombard you with further questions. Give me some time.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 01:02:18
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Sage and/or Wooly, after you read the bit in Downshadow (one month to go!), if you're interested in maybe doing an article about literature in the Realms, let me know. I hadn't thought about it until today, but I think I could drum up some cool stuff. (And educational!)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 01:19:27
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Well, I can say that I would definitely be interested in working with you.
Woot!!! [That's for GoCeraf] 
Needless to say, this is one of my favourite aspects of the Realms, so anything I can do to add to that, is neato in my book.
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Heh. This does remind me though, that we really should get back to that "Negarath stuff" too, Erik.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 03 Mar 2009 01:22:22 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 03:10:10
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Oh yeah . . .
See a PM from me!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 12:27:57
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| Now I'm looking forward to Downshadow . I can definately see how Ghostwalker works as a message to young children to be careful (I'm sure many of us were told the same types of stories as children, especially anyone who were scouts....actually this reminds me of when I was a boy scout and there was the stories of the ghost residing in the abandoned house that was in those woods we were camping in)...anyways, hope to see that work about realms literature you guys will be penning. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ghostwalker: Chapter 22 - Postlude
