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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 05:52:33
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Don't read this thread if you haven't read the Spellfire series. Well, neither have I, but my best friend has and he's told me all about it and we both have a serious-minded question.
Is she a GODDESS!?
I ask only because WotC has given her stats on their website and she's only a Rogue 4/Ranger 1/Spellfire Channeler 9 (14th Level) yet she's taken down the most powerful dracolich, Manshoon twice, a gang of beholders, and a wizard more powerful than Larloch?!!?!? (Not to mention others my friend said she battled that were pretty darn powerful)
And she's only 14th Level?!
Even if she were double that level, battling those should still be tough. I'd say she'd have to be 35+.
But then again, when did WotC ever get the stats to novel characters correct anyway? I just wish novels were more consistent with D&D (and vice versa). I mean, it's both a game and a world setting, not one or the other separately. Least, I hope not? 
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 05:55:18
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| Who did she best that was more powerful than Larloch? |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 06:11:00
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| I think Razz means the Spellghost (I think that's the word at least) in Hand of Fire, that drinks too much spellfire and goes poof during the end-battle. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 07:16:35
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| Also remember those novels were written with the old spellfire rules in mind, not the new balanced version in 3/3.5e. Take a gander through Volo's Guide to All Things Magical for the better version of what spellfire is supposed to be like. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 09:43:33
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Hey, maybe Shandril is some sort of Mystra Messiah? I mean, she did take out quite a few people!
C-Fb
P.s. -> Happy Thanksgiving! |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 13:46:02
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| They weren't written with any rules in mind (and weren't based on events in Ed's campaign). Simply, Shandril's power is what spellfire is really like, and the various rules implementations are flawed attempts to force that into notions of game balance that have nothing to do with how the Realms work or how Ed runs his campaigns. |
Edited by - Faraer on 24 Nov 2005 13:46:58 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2005 : 18:53:38
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| Spellfire was my first Realms novel and introduction to the dungeons and dragons worlds. I first read it in 89 and have looked back several times with almost awe ( after getting to know the realms a lot better) at how Shandril could have bested some of the most powerful elements in Toril. However, in the spirit of novel vs. game mechanics, I loved the book and I personally like the newer, more balanced version of spellfire. As far as the original question about Shandril being a higher power, on page 376 of Hand of Fire, Shandril comes back, through the weave I think, to be able to contact Narm and others as she pleases. It indicated that Mystra gave her the power to do so. Anyone know if their was any sort of deity type status granted to her. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2005 : 03:02:00
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| I really liked Spellfire the novel but it would seem almost impossible to make spellfire from the novel work in the campaign without it being grossly overpowered or without putting restrictions on it that were not in the book. I don't play the campaign so my opinion is based on basically nothing though haha |
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 00:08:54
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| You would think she should be a goddess though. I think it was one of those cruel jokes the Gods like to play. If I remember correctly, in the beggining she made a wish to Tymora for some adventure in her life and it was one of those carful what you wish for lessons. She became what would seem to be the most powerful creature in all of Toril. If she wasn't so busy running and given the chance she probably would have been a Goddess. |
May Tymora smile upon ye |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 02:14:44
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| Honestly, I never really thought of her as becoming a goddess, nor do I think that would have even been desirable. I don't believe that being immortal or a god is necessarily "better" than being a mortal human being. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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jebeddo
Seeker
Canada
69 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 23:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Honestly, I never really thought of her as becoming a goddess, nor do I think that would have even been desirable. I don't believe that being immortal or a god is necessarily "better" than being a mortal human being.
I agree with you, but in a different sense as well. There's been too many changes in the ranks of gods of the Realms lately. More changes have occured within the Faerunian Pantheon in the past 20 years than in centuries before the Time of Troubles. With four well-known gods dead, and three to take their place (and one came back from the dead, too), I think that the ranks of gods just need a bit of time to settle down before they introduce another one. |
"Only half-orcs rush in where devas fear to tread." |
Edited by - jebeddo on 26 Nov 2005 23:13:19 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 00:57:35
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I agree with that too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 03:25:02
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To tell you the truth, Spellfire really was never meant to have any kind of game stat. Shandril was a PLOT DEVICE. Ed wanted to show as many different factions in the Realms interacting for some reason that made sense as a sort of crash course for those new to the Realms. Thus he introduced Shandril, who has this power that (orignially) only comes around once in a very great while (rarely enough that it should never come up again in the novels, for example) that lets her pretty destroy anything she hits, without her actually being competant in battle.
Right after the book, if you needed game stats for Shandril, it would have gone something like this: 0-level character, but if she gets innitiative, she kills whatever she hits, but if she rolls a one, something VERY bad happens to someone on her side . . . pretty simple eh?
Since spellfire has become more common, and less powerful, I would explain in this way (since I like to work within canon as much as possible). After the Time of Troubles, when everything stabilized and Midnight took over as Mystra, the bleeding out of spellfire has managed to be slowed, thus causing fewer spellfire wielders from spontaneously combusting but allowing them to channel much less energy. That way, if you run a campaign before the Time of Troubles, you can still have Shandril as a One Hit Kill machine that is very, very fragile.
The fact that she was, indeed, very fragile would definately challenge the assertion that she might have been a burgeoning goddess. |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 05:11:48
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| The Spellfire novel was one of my favorite novels but I thought the spellfire ability/concept was kinda diluted by extending Spellfire into a trilogy and by giving all of Mystra's Chosen a silver version of it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 06:22:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
The Spellfire novel was one of my favorite novels but I thought the spellfire ability/concept was kinda diluted by extending Spellfire into a trilogy and by giving all of Mystra's Chosen a silver version of it.
Mystra's silver fire may have some similarities to spellfire, but it is not a silver verison of spellfire. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 17:33:48
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as far as I remember Shandryll had parents, who also wielded the Spellfire ability and kind of inherited the "gift" to her. I don't think she is a goddes, in the first book she is far too human.
I personally think making rules out of Spellfire was a big mistake (as would be revealing the "Dark Powers" of Ravenloft). It should have remained a mystic (totally unbalanced) anomaly of the "normal world", something like Neo in "The Matrix".
...and naturally no PC in my campaign would ever gain this ability!!! |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 21:10:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
[br
Is she a GODDESS!?
I seriously doubt it (and certainly hope not). I thought the whole point with Shandril was that she was just a simple girl.
...of course that does not always translate very well into gaming stats, so make that a wildly talented simple girl. |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2005 : 21:52:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
The Spellfire novel was one of my favorite novels but I thought the spellfire ability/concept was kinda diluted by extending Spellfire into a trilogy and by giving all of Mystra's Chosen a silver version of it.
Mystra's silver fire may have some similarities to spellfire, but it is not a silver verison of spellfire.
My mistake, I knew they were different but I wrote that reply poorly. Thanks for correcting my error =)
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2005 : 03:30:29
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Well, she's supposed to be a simple girl, but you can only really buy that for so long with the amount of enemies and the quality of enemies that she defeats.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2005 : 04:36:39
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Yeah, but it's solely because of her spellfire ability, nothing to do with her in terms of strength, skill, training etc. In fact, all three of the novels spend some time on the fact that she is a young, immature girl burdened with this frightful ability that she never wanted. She doesn't actively seek out bad guys to conquer (well, other than in "Crown of Fire" when she gets mad and wants to fry some Zhents back at Zhentil Keep ...) and struggles with all the killing she has to do to save her own skin and that of Narm. She's about as normal as can be, save for the fact that she can hurl spellfire. To use a poor analogy, Tiger Woods is a normal bloke too, but put a golf club in his hand and you get magic ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Is Shandril a-- (Spoilers)
