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maurezen
Acolyte
Russia
26 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 08:29:39
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I have just read the "Cormanthyr : Empire of Elves" book, and I saw there an entry about the hidden treasures of Windsong Tower. Having it read carefully revealed an amazing thing to me : the "Quess'Ar'Teranthvar" is nothing else than five (six, actually) of ten Nether Scrolls stolen from Netheril.
The question here is obvious: where are other scrolls?
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I heed the approval of others. I heed not its absence. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 09:05:37
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| LEoF mentions that two are in the Crypt of Hssthak in western Anauroch, while three are in the Hall of Mists beneath the Grandfather Tree in the High Forest. It also mentions that the Quess'Ar Teranthvar is a complete set of 50 scrolls, not just 6. |
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maurezen
Acolyte
Russia
26 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 09:09:45
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| Please, explain me what is LEoF? |
I heed the approval of others. I heed not its absence. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 09:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by maurezen
Please, explain me what is LEoF?
Lost Empires of Faerun, a supplement released back in February. |
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maurezen
Acolyte
Russia
26 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 09:30:58
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| Thanks:) Now I know what the book I need:) |
I heed the approval of others. I heed not its absence. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 14:48:17
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| is there any mention of the other scroll sets? |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 17:25:08
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| The Nether Scroll novel also answers some of these. :) The North box set does as well and the North is one of the free downloads. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 17:51:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Nether Scroll novel also answers some of these. :) The North box set does as well and the North is one of the free downloads.
And the free downloads can be found on the Wizards downloads page.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 23:18:00
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There used to be two complete sets. One complete set was stolen by the elves and turned into the Quess'Ar'Teranthvar. Its location after the fall of Myth Drannor is unknown (as far as I know, they haven't updated it in 3e, have they?).
The other set was lost piecemeal throughout Netheril's history. Some were stolen, some destroyed, and some just plain misplaced. So you're most likely to have them pop up in ones and twos instead of ten or twenty, and the excellent scribes have already given examples.
However, there's still at least half a set that's completely unaccounted for in the past thousand years or so. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 23:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
There used to be two complete sets. One complete set was stolen by the elves and turned into the Quess'Ar'Teranthvar. Its location after the fall of Myth Drannor is unknown (as far as I know, they haven't updated it in 3e, have they?).
It should still be in Windsong Tower. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 23:33:31
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Barring the fact that Windsong Tower should be a smoking ruin, its remaining members would *certainly* have evacuated such a precious item, even if it meant waking up the sleeping High Mage to do it.
But where would they send it? Fall of Myth Drannor says that magic was evacuated to either Silverymoon or Ascalhorn. Silverymoon has been covered many times, I'm pretty sure it's not there. Likewise, if the demons of Hellgate Keep had it, the North would have known long before now.
So where did they send it? Evermeet seems the likeliest choice, as they were rapidly running out of major elven empires (Eaerlann being the last) on Faerun.
In case you hadn't noticed, this is a topic I enjoy speculating on. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 23:41:51
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I wouldnt be surpised if Shade enclave had a few nor would I be suprised if Shar or Clergy had some to.
Shar may well have even studied some of the missing Nether Scrolls before she created the Shadow weave...... |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 00:10:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Barring the fact that Windsong Tower should be a smoking ruin, its remaining members would *certainly* have evacuated such a precious item, even if it meant waking up the sleeping High Mage to do it.
But where would they send it? Fall of Myth Drannor says that magic was evacuated to either Silverymoon or Ascalhorn. Silverymoon has been covered many times, I'm pretty sure it's not there. Likewise, if the demons of Hellgate Keep had it, the North would have known long before now.
So where did they send it? Evermeet seems the likeliest choice, as they were rapidly running out of major elven empires (Eaerlann being the last) on Faerun.
In case you hadn't noticed, this is a topic I enjoy speculating on.
It's still in Windsong, as I said since not all of that tower, nor the deminsional space, was destroyed. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Magus Rages
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:07:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I wouldnt be surpised if Shade enclave had a few nor would I be suprised if Shar or Clergy had some to.
Shar may well have even studied some of the missing Nether Scrolls before she created the Shadow weave......
Shadovar possessing Nether Scrolls, but I doubt they can cast the spells written in it since the Scrolls require Weave Magic.
It is quite well known that Mystra forbids 10th level and higher spells(I seriously hate Mystra for this), so even if a Weave user stumbles on a Nether Scroll, wait, are all the Nether Scrolls 10th level or higher spells or below 10th level? If they are above 10th level, can the mage cast it by following the arcane words in the Scroll? Also, are the Nether Scrolls created by elven High Magic?, if so, does elven High Magic differ from the Weave Magic and not bound by the restrictions imposed on Weave Magic?
If Shar did studied the Nether Scrolls, then it would be a good thing if she can create a 12th level spell for everyone to play with. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:13:17
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| No offense, but what's your source for the tower being intact post-Fall? Also, don't you think they'd move it with the raging hordes running through the streets? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:25:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No offense, but what's your source for the tower being intact post-Fall? Also, don't you think they'd move it with the raging hordes running through the streets?
See the Nether Scrools write up in LEOF |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:29:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Magus Rages
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I wouldnt be surpised if Shade enclave had a few nor would I be suprised if Shar or Clergy had some to.
Shar may well have even studied some of the missing Nether Scrolls before she created the Shadow weave......
Shadovar possessing Nether Scrolls, but I doubt they can cast the spells written in it since the Scrolls require Weave Magic.
It is quite well known that Mystra forbids 10th level and higher spells(I seriously hate Mystra for this), so even if a Weave user stumbles on a Nether Scroll, wait, are all the Nether Scrolls 10th level or higher spells or below 10th level? If they are above 10th level, can the mage cast it by following the arcane words in the Scroll? Also, are the Nether Scrolls created by elven High Magic?, if so, does elven High Magic differ from the Weave Magic and not bound by the restrictions imposed on Weave Magic?
If Shar did studied the Nether Scrolls, then it would be a good thing if she can create a 12th level spell for everyone to play with.
Reading one Nether scroll automaticly gives a character 1 free level in an Arcane spell casting class (ie it functions like a Libran of Silver magic) in addition of you can track down a complete "chapter" and read them then you get more stuff. There are 5 seperate chapters making up the Nether scrolls |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:33:31
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| The Nether Scrolls are in LEoF? Huh. Well, now I really have to track that book down. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 01:36:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No offense, but what's your source for the tower being intact post-Fall? Also, don't you think they'd move it with the raging hordes running through the streets?
Cormanthyr. Steven Schend. The Ruins of Myth Drannor box set. And evidently Lost Empires. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 10 Nov 2005 01:45:12 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 03:58:06
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| The Quess'ar'Teranthvar is still intact and still watched over by its guardian (and maybe more). Yes, the physical shell that was Windsong Tower has long since fallen. All that means is that there's no direct physical connection to the portal that (should you prove worthy) might provide access to the extradimensional space wherein the golden tree that was once a full set of Nether Scrolls abides..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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maurezen
Acolyte
Russia
26 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 08:49:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
The Quess'ar'Teranthvar is still intact and still watched over by its guardian (and maybe more). Yes, the physical shell that was Windsong Tower has long since fallen. All that means is that there's no direct physical connection to the portal that (should you prove worthy) might provide access to the extradimensional space wherein the golden tree that was once a full set of Nether Scrolls abides.....
Was it? "The Arcane Age: Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves" says that it wasn't full, but there were six of them (and four more possibly still in existence). Where the truth is? |
I heed the approval of others. I heed not its absence. |
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maurezen
Acolyte
Russia
26 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 09:11:41
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| And "Netheril : Empire of Magic" says thet there wer 2 sets of 50 scrolls. Where is the truth? |
I heed the approval of others. I heed not its absence. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 10:09:23
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quote:
Originally posted by maurezen
And "Netheril : Empire of Magic" says thet there wer 2 sets of 50 scrolls. Where is the truth?
2 sets of 50, and the tree is one set. Newer stuff overrides older stuff, and that's what LEoF says. |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 10:10:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I wouldnt be surpised if Shade enclave had a few nor would I be suprised if Shar or Clergy had some to.
Shar may well have even studied some of the missing Nether Scrolls before she created the Shadow weave......
Considering the Shadow Weave was created at precisely the same moment as old Mystryl was, I highly doubt that. (see War of Light and Dark, FRCS) |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 11:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Considering the Shadow Weave was created at precisely the same moment as old Mystryl was, I highly doubt that. (see War of Light and Dark, FRCS)
You have a page reference for that? All the references I know of mention Shar taking centuries to create the Shadow Weave, after studying the regular Weave... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 11:49:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
Considering the Shadow Weave was created at precisely the same moment as old Mystryl was, I highly doubt that. (see War of Light and Dark, FRCS)
You have a page reference for that? All the references I know of mention Shar taking centuries to create the Shadow Weave, after studying the regular Weave...
And his reference in the FRCS just mentions how Mystryl was made from Shar and Selune-it doesn't say anything about the Weave or the Shadow Weave... |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 12:43:02
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Unless I'm completely off on my memory, part of that ripped divine essence became the shadow weave. Granted, Shar nurtured and formed it for a long while before she granted mortals access to it, but it was definitly created via that fight between Selūne and Shar. What one might argue is that the creation process took her a while, but thats about it.
However, even "a few hundred centuries" is hardly comparable to the thousands of years we are talking about here. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2005 : 16:39:35
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quote:
from Magic of Faerūn, highlight by me
Shar studied the Weave and used her own energy in remote parts of the world to experiment on it, eventually coming to understand how it worked and supplicating its effects with her own subtle and dark creation. Eventually this experiment grew to encompass the entire globe, although none knew of its existence. This creation is the Shadow Weave, a dark and distorted copy of the true Weave that enhances the magic of shadows, enchantment, necromancy, and illusion. With the Shadow Weave, Shar hopes to draw evil-inclined spellcasters to her flock, especially since those are the kind of people who would avoid paying homage to the good-aligned Mystra anyway. While the Shadow Weave has existed for quite some time, only recently has it begun to spread rapidly and its power become known to many.
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There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Tathral
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 07:03:39
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quote:
Shadovar possessing Nether Scrolls, but I doubt they can cast the spells written in it since the Scrolls require Weave Magic.
It may be is logical to assume that the scrolls require Weave access. They were created during the First Flowering by races that we assume had access only to the Weave (at least in general, see Magic of Faerun quote by Kajehase), there are a couple factors you should consider before you confine the scrolls to Weave-only artifacts. First, they were created as an extrapolation of arcane magic's potential into infinity. While this in and of itself doesn't guarantee Shadow Weave user benefit from these scrolls, my second point is that their benefits are described as being for arcane spellcasters (I believe. Sorcerers might gain something from them, but I can't remember). There is, as far as I can find, any text precluding Shadow Weavers from benefiting from the scrolls. So, it looks like the extrapolation of magic either is applicable to the Shadow Weave in the same way your reflection is applicable to you, or that magic was not only extrapolated onward and upward in the Weave, but outwards from the Weave as well. This is pure speculation of course; we wont know the answer to this question until the Shadow Weave conflict is resolved. See Lost Empires of Faerun for the best description of the scrolls.
quote:
It is quite well known that Mystra forbids 10th level and higher spells(I seriously hate Mystra for this), so even if a Weave user stumbles on a Nether Scrol, wait, are all the Nether Scrolls 10th level or higher spells or below 10th level?
The Nether Scrolls are not spell scrolls. Ergo, the probably do not contain spells. Instead, they contain detailed explanations of the workings of magic, allowing someone to use it more efficiently, gain access to its deeper secrets, ect.
quote:
If they are above 10th level, can the mage cast it by following the arcane words in the Scroll?
Mystra forbade magic above the tenth level (off topic: does that include spells altered by metamagic and stored in spell slots above the tenth level? Blackcloak has some of these slots, and they are mentioned in ELH), so even if you study the entire collection of scrolls, you still wont be able to overcome the tenth level restriction. However, I believe that the "Return of the Archmage" trilogy explicitly states that the Shadow Weave allows the use of spells above the tenth level. This would conceivably allow a Shadow Weaver to develop spells with the Nether Scrolls as an aid in the manner of the Ancient Netherese.
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Also, are the Nether Scrolls created by elven High Magic?
The Nether Scrolls were created by the second Creator Race (The name escapes me), and they predate elven arrival on Faerun by quite a bit. Since the Weave was still whole when the scrolls were created, and elven magic is costly, it's reasonable to infer that the Scales of the World Serpent (Nether Scrolls) were created with a high-level spell as opposed to the weaker elvish substitute. Just incase you were wondering, Elves had no hand in the creation of the scrolls; they have no claim on them. It was humans who played the greatest role in their creation. The theft of and subsequent domination of the scrolls by the elves is just another example of them usurping Humanity's inheritance.
quote:
...if so, does elven High Magic differ from the Weave Magic and not bound by the restrictions imposed on Weave Magic?
Read up on elven magic in the various source books, novels, and forum threads. It's still part of the Weave, and still subject to the limitations thereof.
quote:
If Shar did studied the Nether Scrolls, then it would be a good thing if she can create a 12th level spell for everyone to play with.
1) It would be a Shadow Weave spell. 2) It would probably be used in some way that was detrimental to Weave users, so not really a good thing, no.
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2005 : 07:31:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Tathral
quote:
Shadovar possessing Nether Scrolls, but I doubt they can cast the spells written in it since the Scrolls require Weave Magic.
It may be is logical to assume that the scrolls require Weave access. They were created during the First Flowering by races that we assume had access only to the Weave (at least in general, see Magic of Faerun quote by Kajehase), there are a couple factors you should consider before you confine the scrolls to Weave-only artifacts. First, they were created as an extrapolation of arcane magic's potential into infinity. While this in and of itself doesn't guarantee Shadow Weave user benefit from these scrolls, my second point is that their benefits are described as being for arcane spellcasters (I believe. Sorcerers might gain something from them, but I can't remember).
Sorcerers do cast arcane spells-they do gain the benefits.
quote:
(off topic: does that include spells altered by metamagic and stored in spell slots above the tenth level? Blackcloak has some of these slots, and they are mentioned in ELH)
No, as they are not technically 10th level spells in 3.5 rules or in the FR worldview. See Mystra's Ban in LEoF. |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 02:10:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
from Magic of Faerūn, highlight by me
Shar studied the Weave and used her own energy in remote parts of the world to experiment on it, eventually coming to understand how it worked and supplicating its effects with her own subtle and dark creation. Eventually this experiment grew to encompass the entire globe, although none knew of its existence. This creation is the Shadow Weave, a dark and distorted copy of the true Weave that enhances the magic of shadows, enchantment, necromancy, and illusion. With the Shadow Weave, Shar hopes to draw evil-inclined spellcasters to her flock, especially since those are the kind of people who would avoid paying homage to the good-aligned Mystra anyway. While the Shadow Weave has existed for quite some time, only recently has it begun to spread rapidly and its power become known to many.
Mh, I probably need to reread my books once I can access them again... |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Where are the Nether Scrolls?
