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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 18:06:42
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Just looking over the the prestige classes in the various core products and Forgotten Realms products, I have noticed three different trends as far as the thought process behind prestige classes. They seem to be:
The Class is recognized as a profession and has specialized training: Arcane Archers, Dwarven Defenders, Daggerspell Shapers for examples. Members of these classes are known to belong to these classes, and they have to find trainers of their profession to even learn about them.
The Class is just an extention or specialization of abilities some classes already get: Frenzied Berserker, Duelist, Hulking Hurler. These classes just make you better at one aspect of the class you already have, at the expense of some other abilities, and no one likely identifies you as a member of this class ("Hm . . . there appear to be three orcs lead by a frenzied berserker . . .").
The Class represents the training that some members of a given organization gets, but not every member of that organization would recieve: Harper Scout, Purple Dragon Knight.
The reason I am thinking abou this is that one of my players wanted to take levels of Daggerspell shaper, and while I had no game balance problem, I had to look for where such an organization would come from, where it would be located, and how it would offer training (BTW . . . I made the Daggerspell shapers and Daggerspell Mages worshippers of Lurue, Mystra, and Meilikki that live in a tower on the western edge of the Moonwood north of Silverymoon).
The other issue I had with this was the barbarian in the group may take levels of Frenzied Berserkers. While I have no real belief that he should have to find a trainer, like the druid/rogue does, I don't want to seem unfair in just letting him do his normal level training then taking levels in the new class.
Any ideas, and any thoughts about the three classifications I came up with?
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 18:12:34
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Dunno, it seems to me that a Barbarian might need some help reaching a higher state of Rage. Perhaps they need to seek the help of a shaman of their people, perhaps a tribal totem could help (As with the Uthgardts.)
There is any manner of ways you can impliment this. The thing is, there are training requirements incorporated in certain classes, or outside approvals needed (ref: Halruuan Elder). Perhaps the Daggerspell mage could do this without training but WOULD need to purchase a seperate spellbook to scribe the spells and concepts for his new PC. |
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Thysl
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 18:18:49
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There could be a good case for another category of PrCs: the Classes that change the PC bodily (Dragon Disciple, Blood Magus, Elemental Savant) though thsi is really just a fancier example of #2 on your list...
Your reasoning makes sense, so as long as you tell your PCs what you've decided in the above context I think they will understand. Additionally I think the only problem I would have is if both mine and another's PrCs demanded us to find instructors, talk about derailing the group.
Thysl |
There are as many nights as days, and the one is just as long as the other in the year's course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word 'happy' would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.
--Carl Jung |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 18:24:02
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I imagine that is where Roleplay would come in. There are those who wish to max out their abilities or take the utmost advantage of their character's potential across a couple of classes/PrCs, but in the interest of the story that is ongoing they may not want to. I mean hey, what would have become of poor Regis if Cattie-brie went haring off to go learn to become an Arcane Archer instead of coming to help Drizzt??
It's all balancing, and honestly such mechanisms may help you as a DM keep control of some of the more illustrious PC's who simply wish to be the best at everything and take some really wonky combos. |
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jameslt0
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 04:24:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
I imagine that is where Roleplay would come in. There are those who wish to max out their abilities or take the utmost advantage of their character's potential across a couple of classes/PrCs, but in the interest of the story that is ongoing they may not want to. I mean hey, what would have become of poor Regis if Cattie-brie went haring off to go learn to become an Arcane Archer instead of coming to help Drizzt??
It's all balancing, and honestly such mechanisms may help you as a DM keep control of some of the more illustrious PC's who simply wish to be the best at everything and take some really wonky combos.
I suppose it is a good thing that Cattie-brie is human and does not meet the requirements for Arcane Archer. 
James |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2005 : 07:13:12
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Here’s what I think of PrCs, in the Realms or otherwise:
A PrC is good if it fits the campaign setting.
A PrC fits the campaign setting by thoroughly incorporating unique elements of the game world into the prestige class. Perhaps the most important way this is done is by translating/extrapolating game world elements into reasonably balanced game mechanics.
The unique elements of a setting can include any number of things: societal roles of all types, racial enmities, religion, magic, etc…
The Red Wizard of Thay is a perfect example of a good Prestige Class.
A prestige class is bad if it does not fit in or reflect a campaign setting.
The Hulking Hurler fits the example of a bad PrC. It doesn’t fit any campaign setting and is little more than a bunch of combat heavy rules (that would better serve as a monster template in a monster supplement, than as a PrC).
In between these two extremes are generic prestige classes, such as the Dwarven Defender and the Elven Arcane Archer. I call these PrCs generic, because they are not quite complete prestige classes.
That is, they incorporate strong racial elements/themes (as opposed to unique campaign setting elements) and expand them into balanced rules, but they don’t fit the specifics of a single setting.
So while one could reasonably expect to find Dwarven Defenders anywhere there are Gold or Shield dwarves in Faerun, one couldn’t truly consider them a proper PrC unless they were differentiated in some way.
Obviously such differentiation is redundant, though, so it’s left up to each DM to decide how deeply he or she wants to pursue detail.
I find it interesting that KnightErrantJR and I should both have basically three categories of PrC’s, and that we split up certain PrCs more or less the same.
I wonder how many other DMs feel the same.
Lastly I don’t bother with training all that much in my game. We just roleplay what the player would like his character to be able to do (“My character heads upstairs early, so that he can study more lore on the Dragons of the Stonelands.”)…for example.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Prestige Classes and perception in Faerun
