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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 14:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[quote]Originally posted by Winterfox
[quote]Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Also, the Klauth sidequest was awful--no NWN character should be able to kill him so casually.
Casually? I had to try six times before I managed to knock him.(I didn`t trick him with the dragon-orb) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 15:24:37
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Well, Khorne, you need to get on the ball! 
It took me three times as well... but still - you have to think of Klauth - it's going to take more than two people to be able to really destroy an ANCIENT RED DRAGON, no matter what. And they fact that you could do it - well...
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Khaa
Seeker
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 14:06:37
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| Ugg, I like black Isle and bioware. I LIKE EM ALL! Dur! |
Ever want another forum? Well try out www.icewinddale.com |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 18:25:37
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| Talking about nasty big red dragons, where can I find some more information about Klauth as long as I've seen he is an important char, I knew about Elaith, but not about Klauth. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 18:37:35
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| Try the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3rd ed), or the Wyrms of the North-articles either in Dragon Magazine or on the Wizards website (among the retired articles). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 18:54:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Try the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3rd ed), or the Wyrms of the North-articles either in Dragon Magazine or on the Wizards website (among the retired articles).
The Wyrms of the North Archive is drawn from the Dragon articles, but updated for 3.x, and includes stats (which the original articles lacked, as I recall).
And to provide a more specific link: Klauth, "Old Snarl"
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2005 : 23:52:13
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I wonder how much FR stuff the people that developed NWN actually read or had access to to create the game.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 00:11:01
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Neverwinter Nights really was rushed out the door. The toolset was awesome, and that was their priority from the start, since they invested so much in it. I am curious some times about their level of interest in Realmslore, but some of it can be chalked up to not having the time to polish some of story elements and make them make a little more sense in the Realms as a whole.
They have to have some degree of knowlage, because some of the things that get mentioned, some of the magic item names and the lore in the various books for example, is somewhat obscure. It almost seemed like there may have been one person working on various NPCs, magic items, and tidbits, and someone else working on the overall plot, and the overal plot people didn't do much to tie in some of the references that the NPC or item designers might have thrown in.
So what you may have had was NPC designer reads outline, sees that they need an orc chief, and that the PC might even be able to negotiate with the chief. NPC designer, knowing a little about the Realms, makes orc chief into Obould.
Plot person, not thinking as much about an established NPC Orc chief but more along the lines of giving evil NPCs a chance to deal with the orc chief, doesn't realize that Obould is important, and scripts the events and the orc chief like what he knows to be the "typical" behavior for an orc chief, cower, offer up his brother's head, beg for mercy, or fight to the death.
Given more time to polish the game, someone working with the plot overview and the FR specifics might have said, "Obould needs to appear a bit more confident, and making a deal should be something he offers from a position of strength. Also, a little bit of storyline information should come into play about how Obould, an orc chief that worries Silverymoon, could be pressed into service by Luskan."
Then someone adds some dialoge that makes is more clear that Obould was lured into the alliance by promises of money and aid against Silverymoon, and that he no longer wants to be allied to Luskan. Perhaps instead of his brother's head, he could escape by giving troop positions and information about his allies in exchange for his orcs being allowed a retreat to Black Arrow Keep under truce. All of this would be simple to fix just in dialogue, and you could still attack if you wanted to, but it wouldn't seem like a sneaky or evil thing to deal with him in this manner.
Someone could have then noted that as an established NPC, Obould should have his own character model. Then, finally, if the higher ups didn't want to do the extra work to make these changes, they may have just said to make it into another orc chief, or perhaps say that this tribe was a tribe split off from Obould's and ruled by one of his sons, who then sells out his brother to the Alliance.
I think this is why there is enough obscure Realmslore to catch the attention of those of us interested in such things, and enough wrong with such references to drive us nuts as well. The final pass and polish wasn't there in the plotline part of the story to fix some of these differences.
But that is just my guess. The only thing I know for sure is that the game was rushed out the door, and the Toolset was priority.
As far as concern for Realmlore and a genuine love of it . . . I mean no offence to Bioware, but it is telling that the first three premium modules were not Forgotten Realms modules. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 00:20:31
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Oh well, as long as Aribeth was in it, I guess I can forgive the developers and designers. Oh yeah, and the hot DROW assassin from HotU, that works, too.
KEJR - I agree with you - just enough for us to recognize, but just enough wrong to say, "Wha?!"
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 13:41:14
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I agree with KEJR, the description of many magical items made references to Forgotten Realms knowledge, the belt that made reference to Midnight, the Vangedahast tunics, and of course the Waterdhavian creatures supplied by Khelben.
quote:
Oh well, as long as Aribeth was in it, I guess I can forgive the developers and designers. Oh yeah, and the hot DROW assassin from HotU, that works, too.
Agreed too!!!! |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 13 Nov 2005 13:42:01 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 16:21:18
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I found a lot of the lore to be in those Tomes you would find when you clicked on the bookshelves. I thought it was fairly decent of them to put that lore in for the non-FR player of the game.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 17:00:53
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Bioware's earlier games showed a much deeper interest and understanding of the Realms, though, to be absolutely fair.
I think they've lost interest in the setting since, and want to move on to their own things -- can't fault them for that, hey? |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 18:01:03
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True... I think the fact that NWN did so well surprised them, honestly. I also think even if they were using the new engine that is NWN2, they couldn't change the name of the series without a huge marketing budget to inform people of the series name change. Good job for FR to get a name of their city stuck smack dab in the title.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 18:08:15
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It's like BG2: Shadows of Amn, where not a single part of the game tales place in Baldur's Gate. Heh.
Mind you, you can't blame them. The gaming public in general seem to find it a bit hard to connect a sequel with its predecessor if there's not a common factor in the title. The same happened to Divine Divinity -- most ridiculous name ever for an RPG, I know -- and its "Not a sequel, a side-story/spinoff, it's not a sequel, it really isn't", Beyond Divinity (which was originally titled Riftrunner). |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 18:13:17
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I just hope it has the staying power to keep people interested in the series. I don't know how Dragonshard is doing, but D&D needs all the marketing help it can get. 
Hey, WF, what did you think of KotOR II then? Let down or success?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 18:41:08
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Letdown. Huge letdown. Plot makes no sense, butchery of the first game. (Please don't bring up the cut contents: I've seen them -- hell, I've listened to the audio files -- but even then it still makes no sense.) I do like the dystopic atmosphere and the dark, very fragmented galaxy, though. And, misplaced Bene Gesserit that she is, I like Kreia (if only she didn't start making no sense, and didn't turn into Darth Exposition toward the end...).
It could've been so much more if the devs didn't waste time on, oh, the stupid lightsaber forms that nobody uses anyway. (I don't see the point. The combat is easy as ever -- why bother with the stupid forms when all you need to do is just blast everything with Force Wave/Insanity + Force Storm?) |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 19:14:39
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At the risk of getting yelled at by the moderators: This is the last KotOR 2 post.
Yeah, I don't think I ever changed my lightsaber form once - I just kept it on the mode vs. lightsaber fighters.
The story seriously lacked. I just didn't buy half the reasons people were following you. The Go-to wasn't a very interesting character - the list goes on and on. I did like Darth Nihil's mask though - very well done.
Anyway, the point being - I hope they don't annihiliate NWN2's story by trying to get too deep, like was shown in KotOR 2.
C-Fb
P.s. - Awesome Dune reference - and right on the money, WF.
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Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2005 : 19:20:21
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Ahem!
Keep replies to non-realms games to PM's or emails. Thanks. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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NWN 2 Previewed in PC Gamer 143
