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Corran Horn
Seeker
54 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 19:23:33
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| Well, Karsus in 2 ed. was 41 level wizard. Ioulaum is also 41 level wizard, but he is also lich and elder brain, so he is much more powerfull than Karsus was. Srinshee is 40 level wizard and she is chosen of Mystra. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 01:04:14
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| Power is a tricky thing, though. Ioulaum is brought up all the time, but he's immobile and--as I've heard--not all that interested in combat and being a "mover and shaker". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 31 Aug 2006 01:04:26 |
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Thangorn
Seeker
New Zealand
84 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 01:51:46
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Manshoon will pwn everyone once he figures out how to shift his consciousness between his clones...
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Ex-A Land Far Away (ALFA) DM/Builder
Faerunian Canon Despot |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 15:35:20
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Sheer power wise has to be Larloch, was level 45, under new rules he is level 36. Ed said Telemont comes very close to Larloch. Telemont being level 35.
Telemont easily tames a dragolich (ruler of the Blues) to do his every bidding.
Karsus etc, were around level 42, but using the new rule sets, they are around level 34 (i.e. slightly less powerful than Telemont is now). Karsus had Godhood for a while, just because he gets it does not necessarily mean he is the most powerful, may be the others were wiser...
If you are thinking these surviving Netherese would grow in levels over time, that is logical, but Halaster is 4000 years old, and still level 30...
Erevis Cale trilogy supermage: Somebody mentioned the Sorjourner (sp?), 12000 years old, destroyer of worlds, he has be well over level 30, may be even around level 40 (or level 50 using earlier rules).
So, power wise:
1) Larloch 2) Telemont
Others like Simbul, Sammaster, Eliminster, Halaster, Szas Tam are all around level 30....Thus Eliminster would be #1 (in a novle he defeated the Simbul, Simbul also mentioned he was more powerful than her), unless one fights Halaster in Undermountain! |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 00:05:49
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| In Soviet Faerun, Spells cast you! |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
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Silvanus79
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 17:36:12
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My vote goes to Elminster. Hands down, he is the greatest wizard in the Realms. When looking at this subject, one has to take more than sheer power into account. Obviously, all of these archwizards have access to ungodly amounts of magical items, so I won't go there, but experience-wise, El takes the cake.
Wizards aren't all fireballs and meteor swarms and words of power. In this debate, we need to factor in utilitarian ability, as well. And, in my opinion, Elminster is always ready for anything, whether it be a fight or a puzzle or some political situation. No matter what, the Old Mage has an answer for everything. And if he doesn't, his words have so much credibility that he can just "wing it," and still be taken at face value.
Now, in all fairness, Larloch and those other uberliches are great powers, but I don't think they can stand up to Elminster in a toe to toe fight, simply because El will have some sort of unexpected trick up his sleeve. He's a Chosen of the goddess of magic. Elminster has more knowledge of the Weave than any other spellcaster alive today, and he would prevail over anyone. |
Procrastinators unite! Tomorrow. |
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szasstamsgroupie
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 15:38:21
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| Uh, duh! Szass Tam! Look at the name! |
Talk nerdy to me, baby! |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 15:30:22
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"Vhostym from the Erevis Cale Trilogy"
At first I also thought this as well. But in the books, it says that Elminister may beat him.
Nothing Vhostym has done is beyond a level 30 mage. I don't think Vhostym is a level 40 mage, at most level 35-36. Keep in mind that he has psionic powers...Greater age does not necessarily equal greater power: Halaster 4000 years old, level 30 mage, Sammaster roughly 300 years old (only active for 200 years or so) level 30 mage.
Reading some of the latest novels, Sammaster sounded more impressive than Vhostym. Sammaster was easily killing ancient dragons (be it gold or silver, and thought he could defeat a dozen of them by himself) and transformed into a titanic dragolich...
Larloch's definitely feels more impressive than Vhostym, just read Larloch's write up. |
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 01:06:17
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yeah lorloch kicks butt. however he was stronger in 2nd ed.
halaster blackcloak is a formidable maniac and too strong like a cheat.
and my new favourite enigmatic "shade lord". neutral evil prevails 
hehe, man, ancient netheril wizards are keep coming back. "karsus, karsus."
I dont know if its cannon but ý read somewhere on net that karsus is now resurrected and he is strong as hell. he invented arcanist prestige class and training subordinates in his enclave to fight against shade lord. if you can find, just read it, more powerful than many demi powers ý guess
comparing these guys sammaster is just a kid. and dead if ý m not mistaken  . |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 04:37:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Neonai
yeah lorloch kicks butt. however he was stronger in 2nd ed.
halaster blackcloak is a formidable maniac and too strong like a cheat.
and my new favourite enigmatic "shade lord". neutral evil prevails
hehe, man, ancient netheril wizards are keep coming back. "karsus, karsus."
I dont know if its cannon but ý read somewhere on net that karsus is now resurrected and he is strong as hell. he invented arcanist prestige class and training subordinates in his enclave to fight against shade lord. if you can find, just read it, more powerful than many demi powers ý guess
comparing these guys sammaster is just a kid. and dead if ý m not mistaken .
I believe your reference to Karsus coming back is non-canon. After what happened before, I don't think anyone would let him come back to life! |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Neonai
Acolyte
Turkey
34 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 09:20:09
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| true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric ý guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 16:51:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Neonai
true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric ý guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.
None of this is canon. I can't recall anything like this from official material. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 27 Oct 2006 17:02:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 16:58:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Neonai
true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric ý guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.
None of this is canon. I can't recall anything like this is official material. :)
Ditto. And I certainly would have noted something like this, especially since I am rather fond of Halruaa! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
658 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 17:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Neonai
true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric ý guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.
At WotC forum every week someone wants to resurrect Karsus so it's not official, Eileanar was destroyed along with other enclaves, and also Karsus cannot be resurrected by conventional means, he's fragmented in three parts (and one is in Shar's clutch), and if you check Powers and Pantheons you'll see it's almost impossible (almost is reserved for novel authors but with lot of comebacks in 3E it would be unoriginal i.e. unlikely) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 17:10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Neonai
true resurrection was said to be used by an elven cleric ý guess. and it was said that his enclave is floating over somewhere around halrua. but like you said it is more possible that he is still dead. and probably drifting in astral plane.
None of this is canon. I can't recall anything like this is official material. :)
Ditto. And I certainly would have noted something like this, especially since I am rather fond of Halruaa!
Agreed.
While we know Halruaa has some connections to ancient Netheril, something like this would've been exclusively mentioned had it been a canon reference in official Realmslore.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2006 : 18:22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Maruluthu Mistrivvin
At WotC forum every week someone wants to resurrect Karsus so it's not official, Eileanar was destroyed along with other enclaves, and also Karsus cannot be resurrected by conventional means, he's fragmented in three parts (and one is in Shar's clutch), and if you check Powers and Pantheons you'll see it's almost impossible (almost is reserved for novel authors but with lot of comebacks in 3E it would be unoriginal i.e. unlikely)
I'v never really understood the need to ressurect Karsus...he is of much better use as a historical figure and his Folly is a source of endless hooks and ideas...it would cheapen his story to ressurect him as a "wiser" Karsus...
plus we have had enough "ressuections" of ancient threats for a while now  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Rautherimnon
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2006 : 09:01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertArchlichs and baelnorns are two types of lich that are good-aligned. Alatheene Moonstar, in Waterdeep, is an archlich. I can't recall any named baelnorns off the top of my head, but Kuje's NPC list surely names a couple.
Corineus from the Return of the Archwizards trilogy? A survivor from the glory of Myth Drannor, I believe. |
Rautherimnon
Wiz10/Sha7/Dev3/Acm1 NE Moon Elf of Gargauth |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2006 : 14:36:52
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| I can see Grandmaster Kane taking out a lot of these archmages. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2006 : 23:10:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
I can see Grandmaster Kane taking out a lot of these archmages.
With all due respect, I'm rather tired of hearing this guy plugged. His powers as described in the recent novel ("Road of the Patriarch") are either the standard powers that any monk of the appropriate level obtains, or they come from his toys. Granted, he'd be a high level, but I haven't read anywhere that he's the most powerful monk/warrior in the Realms.
And many of these archmages would not fight an enemy on that enemy's terms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Twilight
Seeker
Canada
68 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2006 : 07:47:11
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| Elminster But Halaster is the coolest |
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Romaal
Acolyte
Germany
22 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2006 : 20:54:42
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I think Elminster is the mightiest Wizard (I think he also has the highest level so it seems clear to me, but maybe I'm just wrong).
Furthermore, Elminster is the Gandalf of the Realms and I liked Gandalf a lot ;) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 00:27:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Romaal
I think Elminster is the mightiest Wizard (I think he also has the highest level so it seems clear to me, but maybe I'm just wrong).
Furthermore, Elminster is the Gandalf of the Realms and I liked Gandalf a lot ;)
Just be careful with that comparison...
As Ed has told us:-
"He owes a little bit to the Old Storyteller of Thornton W. Burgess, a little bit to Merlin, a little bit to Gandalf, a trifle to Fagin, a trifle to the literary character Glencannon, a little bit more to the real-life (and long since sadly deceased) English comedian Michael Flanders, and so on.
He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf or Belgarath—in fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SAEDA007
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2006 : 00:31:32
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I voted Elminster.
He is powerfull not only because of magic, but he also posesses Spellfire (as I have just read in the novel "Crown of Fire"). |
DM Mark
Tacoma, WA |
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barry
Acolyte
South Africa
27 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2006 : 10:58:14
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If you take out their god given abilities such as the silver fire thing and immunities,then would that change your view? I think it should. Remember that El and the outher chosen have almonst perished had it not been for these gifts.
As for specs , it should play a role and remenber there has not been details of Lord Shade & Iloaum specs put into publication.
And will they ever be? |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 05:38:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
I'v never really understood the need to ressurect Karsus...he is of much better use as a historical figure and his Folly is a source of endless hooks and ideas...it would cheapen his story to ressurect him as a "wiser" Karsus...
plus we have had enough "ressuections" of ancient threats for a while now
-It is very possible that Karsus simply cannot be brought back to life. His soul was sundered in three. Firstly, the Resurrection spell brings a soul back into the body. Technically, Karsus does not have a soul anymore. Furthermore, reuniting his tripartite soul may cause him to become a demigod of sorts, as he did/does still have some lingering divine essence in him. Bringing his soul together might simply allow him to pass on and die, which then might make the Resurrection possible.
quote:
Originally posted by barry
As for specs , it should play a role and remenber there has not been details of Lord Shade & Iloaum specs put into publication.
And will they ever be?
-Telamont Tanthul had his 3e stats written up in Lords of Darkness. Lord Shadow, who is probably not the same person as Telamont Tanthul, was given 2e stats in Netheril: Empire of Magic. Ioulaum was given 2e stats in Netheril: Empire of Magic and 3e stats in Lost Empires of Faerûn. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 06:32:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Telamont Tanthul had his 3e stats written up in Lords of Darkness. Lord Shadow, who is probably not the same person as Telamont Tanthul, was given 2e stats in Netheril: Empire of Magic.
Actually 3/3.5e material has made it clear that these are the same beings. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Morhion
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 17:47:17
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quote:
I dont know if its cannon but ý read somewhere on net that karsus is now resurrected and he is strong as hell. he invented arcanist prestige class and training subordinates in his enclave to fight against shade lord. if you can find, just read it, more powerful than many demi powers ý guess
If it's the same one you're talking of, then I know it's non-canon, since I wrote it. It's since been redone by others, and slashed all to bits from the original concept I had (that being Karsus's 'ressurection' being the result of a seriously warped elf (to the point he couldn't really be considered "elf") seeking retribution.). And it wasn't actually suppose to be Karsus... |
Edited by - Morhion on 15 Nov 2006 17:48:06 |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 17:48:00
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| For sure it's someone, or something nobody knows of, and that's the way it should be I'm thinkin. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 22:47:25
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
For sure it's someone, or something nobody knows of, and that's the way it should be I'm thinkin.
That's very possible. We don't know everything. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Topic |
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Who is the best spellcaster in the realms
