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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 05:50:54
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I hope I'm not opening a whole new can of worms. But that last thread that took a nose dive really got me thinking...
My campaign of the forces of good versus the forces of evil is getting tired. Not only to me but I think to my players as well. I'm going to be realistic, I've been expecting too much out of them I think, forcing alignments, wanting heroism rather than a "whats in it for me" attitude and getting frustrated. Frankly I think its my fault. So anyway, I'm spacing out, looking at my bookshelf, picking up and rereading some of my favorite fantasy stories and I'm asking myself some questions...
Why do Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser always end up saving Lanhkmar but at the same time try to rob it blind and I love them for doing both?
Why does Conan always kill the big bad evil guy, but at the same time he's a pirate and a thief and that's OK?
So, I'm going to move away from presenting my campaign as a good versus evil but rather as a struggle between powerful forces, and the fight against unnatural chaos and natural law. No "mastermind" pulling the strings, no over arching plot of worldwide domination. I don't want antiheroism, angst and self loathing aren't my bag baby. I want a campaign where, doing the right thing, even by accident will always somehow triumph.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 14:31:06
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Well - it's more of a chaos v. law fight, whether that law or chaos has smackings of good and evil. If you look at action movies we all love - Commando, Rambo, Last Boyscout, Batman - look at those and you will see our heroes doing very "evil" things - stealing cars, weapons, murdering, tormenting people.
I believe you have it right that objective good vs objective evil is a very strenuous campaign to keep going once you've beat the evil humanoids time and time again.
That was a good though, M_M...
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 15:50:52
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Change is good, and including evil characters offer lots of new adventure opportunities.
I've run two successful campaigns that included evil characters, and I think the key is some level of maturity and good taste, and a solid set of table rules.
First, it is important that the players understand that some character vs. characters conflict are allowed. Second, the players must understand that random killings are boring (or mean, if players are involved), and thus not something I want in my games.
If everybody understand these rules, everybody should be fine.
My current Waterdeep game is a nice mix of opportunists (like Conan) and murderous lunatics (like the Kurgan of Highlander), and we're having a jolly good time so far. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 18:35:57
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I believe you have it right that objective good vs objective evil is a very strenuous campaign to keep going once you've beat the evil humanoids time and time again.
That was a good though, M_M...
C-Fb
A few years ago, when I first started this group I currently play with is when I banned nothing but good alignments. I think as more of a guide for the players and to keep them from killing each other. :) And now I think everyone has grown into the hobby quite well and I think we're all ready for a more, and I don't want to say gritty maybe earthy approach to campaigning.
And yes, it does get strenuous and since I've been loosening the reigns a bit I've actually seen some better roleplaying!
And thanks! :) |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 14 Oct 2005 18:42:49 |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 18:42:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I've run two successful campaigns that included evil characters, and I think the key is some level of maturity and good taste, and a solid set of table rules.
Hm, no I have no intentions of running an "evil" campaign.
I'm just not going to enforce any particular type of behavior (alignment) and frankly I don't even want to know what the alignment of the PC's are. Curcumstance will dictate behavior. I'm starting to work this in (lately the past 3 or 4 sessions) and the players are starting to respond better I think. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 22:07:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
Hm, no I have no intentions of running an "evil" campaign.
So, how can a campaign with CN mercenaries and thieves doing good possibly be a "can of worms"?  Its the cornerstone of all D&D plots!
Seriously, campaigns with loose morals can be a great relief after running games with clear-cut conflicts for a while. Which is why I prefere "Sword and Sorcery" to "Fantasy", Conan to Terry Brooks and so on. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2005 : 23:41:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
I prefere "Sword and Sorcery" to "Fantasy", Conan to Terry Brooks and so on.
Yawp! |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2005 : 02:56:40
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Yeah, swords and sorcery is definitely awesome. I played a Chaotic Neutral fey'ri sorcerer... Got to level 16 with the character (he's currently on hiatus getting married) Anyway, he is CN to the core. I do what ever seems right at the moment.. which makes for a fun, but hard to predict game. The GM is awesome, though (Kianna) and she handles it quite well...
But the point being - chaos is a good element to any game and it helps the characters and the GM grow into great players.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2005 : 08:16:21
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| Which reminds me: the Paizo lads keep bringing up Clark Ashton Smith. Is he any good? |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 16:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
Which reminds me: the Paizo lads keep bringing up Clark Ashton Smith. Is he any good?
Who's he? |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 17:03:04
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I think he's an author who writes swords and sorcery books. I've seen his name here and there as well. Might be worth it to look into his work.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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TwigB
Acolyte
South Africa
46 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2005 : 09:54:11
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| Yes, i agree, evil will eventually consume itself...but the journey is a lot of fun. I recently took on DMing for an evil party (Assassin and 2 worshipers of Beshaba) they got pretty high level before the Cleric had designs of murdering his brother (The assassin) and his fellow devotee. I found that evil sometimes gives much more roleplaying possibilities, good follows a strick path whether its CG, LG or NG. Evil tends to scheme and plot a lot and they open numerous adventure hooks without even realising it. |
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Good vs evil campaign - Time for a change?
