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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2003 : 17:36:57
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Just wanted to start a new topic on Undermountain, leading on from another thread started by Bookwyrm.
To start, lets clarify a few details of origin....
1) I cant remember off hand but what was the first recording of Undermountain?
2) Was it originally a Netheril construction or Drow construction (or some other)?
3) When did Halaster come to be in Undermountain?
4) Who\What did Halaster "employ" to construct the exta levels to Undermountain?
5) When did Skullport appear?
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 04 Feb 2003 17:41:14
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 07:21:41
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First of all, I posted some stuff in that thread you mentioned. Take a look. Not much, but I'll try to fix that for you here.
Now, in order:
1: No idea. Do you mean the first exploration of Undermountain?
2: It was started by the dwarves; some sort of abandoned hall built on a very grand scale, and then expanded on by Halaster.
3: Soon after the existance of Waterdeep as a thriving trading area. (Within a hundred years, I think.)
4: Demon servants and mutated drow slaves.
5: No idea. I didn't even know it's a part of Undermountain. I thought it was separate.
Now, I'm going to have to search for those websites again, and then I'll post the URLs for you. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 07:31:53
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1) Can't recall off the top of my head
2) Clan Meilarkin (sp?) dwarven halls and natural tunnels
3) For his experiments Halaster started digging under his tower, continuosly deeper and deeper, finding the dwarven halls and other tunnels. Later his apprentices followed and... expired sort off...
4) Mostly magic and summoned/gated creatures set loose. Subsequent visitors embellished the complex... And stayed. Some of these new residents formed the basis of Skullport
5) see 1) |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 08:16:01
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The first recording i have is in -1288DR. Dwarves discovered that there was Mithril in what will be the mount waterdeep. But it was very close from the underdark. So they fought drows and Duergars.
In -800, in the third level, a group of Netheril wizards built an outpost for their experiences.
-339DR (Fall of Netheril) the problem with the Weave made a lot of walls collapse and made Undermountain as we know it now.
In 34, the dwarves that were in Undermountain were overhelmed by drows. They had to retreat to the upper levels. In 211, they were history.
In 268DR, the mithril was exhausted so the duegars left.
From 171 to 284, there are what we call Halaster's Hunts. He killed a lot of drow
For skullport:
It was formerly a Netherese Settlement.
A Halaster's apprentice made it what it's now. Suprisingly, in 1174 the Lords of Waterdeep, built a way to Skullport
I hope i answered you |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 08:27:40
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| Okay, I've got some URLs, as promised. http://www.crosswinds.net/~prespos/undermountain.htm has some good answers. I haven't had time to look at all of it -- actually, only the history section on Undermountain. However, it does have a section on Skullport; you might find some info for question five there. Http://members.cox.net/moth1/gaming/forgotten_realms/fr_history.htm also has a little bit, as well as a brief history of Waterdeep. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 08:43:44
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Thanks everyone! Thatll do just nicely for starters  Ill likely be posting back here soon seeking more information.
Just once quick question..... Where was Halasters tower from which he started tunneling down into the depths, was this what "The Yawning Portal" tavern is today or was it somewhere else in the city? |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 09:53:18
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I don't think so . . . the description of Halaster's tower seemed too grand for it to be the Yawning Portal. I figure that it's probably up on the mountain itself, though that's just a guess.
I followed a link on the first page I gave you, and found that an adventuring party led by Mirt the Moneylender and Durnan the Wanderer finding a well shaft that opened up into Undermountain; seems this is the first expedition that you were looking for. After reading this, I seem to recall that the Yawning Portal is owned by these two. Once again, I could be wrong. I know it says who the owner is in Escape from Undermountain (The Nobles #3) but I don't own that one; my brother has it, and he done got married and moved out . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 12:05:15
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| Hmmm... can't quite remember exactly either. My first guess would have been 'The Yawning Portal'... or the site which currently has 'Blackstaff Tower'... For some reason Halaster's tower on Mount Waterdeep sounds unfamiliar... |
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Ranaghar Tsaran
Learned Scribe
Poland
133 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 12:32:52
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By Mielikki! Where do you have this information about Undermountain from? Here in Poland I even didn't hear about something called "Undermountain" |
"Do not be afraid of greatness. Some achieve greatness, some are born great, and some have greatness thrust upon them..." |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 13:57:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranaghar Tsaran
By Mielikki! Where do you have this information about Undermountain from? Here in Poland I even didn't hear about something called "Undermountain"
The best place to find information on Undermountain are:
The Ruins of Undermountain
The Ruins of Undermountain II - The Deeper Levels
Skullport
Maybe some extra little bits in City of Splendors
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 05 Feb 2003 16:47:32 |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 14:02:28
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On my computer I have a Campaign Expansion called Skullport. That might provide some additional information but I cannot tell, I have not read it yet.
-Echon
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"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2003 : 10:20:37
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From the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (page 179):
...Before the founding of Waterdeep, a wizard settled on the slopes of Mount Waterdeep with seven apprentices...
...at length, their tunnels broke into... old dwarven delvings of the long-vanished Melairkyn clan...
Halaster Blackcloak arrived somewhere between -1088 DR and 882 DR (Nimoar’s Hold, Waterdeep’s predecessor)
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2003 : 07:14:32
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[*Tries to refrain from cackling with glee over the fact that his guess about Halaster's Tower being on the mountain was correct, not wanting to ruin his image as a Serious Sage. Not that he actually has one anyway. *] |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 01:52:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't think so . . . the description of Halaster's tower seemed too grand for it to be the Yawning Portal. I figure that it's probably up on the mountain itself, though that's just a guess.
I followed a link on the first page I gave you, and found that an adventuring party led by Mirt the Moneylender and Durnan the Wanderer finding a well shaft that opened up into Undermountain; seems this is the first expedition that you were looking for. After reading this, I seem to recall that the Yawning Portal is owned by these two. Once again, I could be wrong. I know it says who the owner is in Escape from Undermountain (The Nobles #3) but I don't own that one; my brother has it, and he done got married and moved out . . . .
Wasting some time this afternoon checking out older posts and seeing if there's any places I can answer any questions left unturned....
Technically, the entire city of Waterdeep rests on the slopes of Mount Waterdeep in a geologic sense. Also, when Halaster built his tower, the city was probably 5% of its current size and all huddled along the water. Thus, his tower was well outside the town/city to be.
While hinted at, I guess we never stated directly (or I'm really misremembering) so here goes: The shaft in the Yawning Portal's taproom is the former foundations of Halaster's Tower. The tower fell long ago, after Halaster's apprentices followed him down. Methinks the townspeople collapsed the tower to prevent the wizards from ever coming back out (or so they'd hoped).
Durnan bought the land around the rubble-choked tower ruin and built his taproom around it, since he and Mirt had made their fortunes exploring the dangerous ruins below themselves.
Steven
Who thinks there could be rumors in the City of Splendors that Durnan stays young due to deals cut with Halaster (but of course, he's too honorable and the only folk who spread such rumors are bitter souls who fear the Underhalls or who resent Durnan's successes to their failures)( |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2004 : 18:53:01
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| You could aways ask Mr. Greenwood, now that he's here. Or anyway, his posts are here. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2004 : 01:30:07
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| Does anyone know where I can find more information on the Undermountain or about Durnan and Mirt's adventure there? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2004 : 02:28:23
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Hmmm, if I recall there are many novels that feature Mirt, Durnan, and Undermountain, I just can't recall most of them right now. The most recent I re-read was in Realms of the Underdark Anthology, and the story was "A Slow Day in Skullport." Ah, and for those of you referring to Halaster as the Mad Mage, that honor now belongs to the Lord of All Hell, Asmodeus.  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2004 : 02:36:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Hmmm, if I recall there are many novels that feature Mirt, Durnan, and Undermountain, I just can't recall most of them right now. The most recent I re-read was in Realms of the Underdark Anthology, and the story was "A Slow Day in Skullport." Ah, and for those of you referring to Halaster as the Mad Mage, that honor now belongs to the Lord of All Hell, Asmodeus.
I've forgotten why Asmodeus now possesses that title...Care to enlighten me, anyone? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2004 : 15:16:21
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| Arivia, that happened in Elminster in Hell. Mystra needed someone to go to Hell to rescue Elminster so she got Halaster to do it. However, he wasn't powerful enough to defeat Nergal so the Simbul went and caused a lot of chaos and distruction. When the Simbul did manage to kill Nergal, she was very weak and left vunerable because the Simbul was too busy trying to heal Elminster and teleport themselves out of the Nine Hells. Just as Asmodeus was about to launch a spell at the Witch-Queen and Elminster, Mystra used her magic to transfer Halaster's madness to Asmodeus. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2004 : 21:42:05
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| Now I remember...Thanks, DDH_101. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2004 : 01:46:01
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| I'm suprised you forgot, Arivia. You seem like someone who is more "on top of things" like that. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2004 : 03:20:10
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| The last and only reading I've done of Elminster in Hell was while I was laid up in bed with a pretty bad affliction of some type, serious enough to cause figmentary images to appear before my eyes. I dropped the ball on the later half of the novel. It's on my "To Read" list, along with 30 other titles. |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2004 : 18:52:51
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If Mystra transferred Halaster's madness to Asmodeus (I seem to remember it being more of an amnesia spell), I doubt it was permanent. Asmodeus is simply too powerful for that to happen in his own realm. Speaking of which, I wonder what sort of revenge Asmodeus has in store for Mystra?
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2004 : 19:12:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
The last and only reading I've done of Elminster in Hell was while I was laid up in bed with a pretty bad affliction of some type, serious enough to cause figmentary images to appear before my eyes.
That happened to me once, when I was eleven or so. I was pretty drugged up, and hallucinated some of the monsters in the book I was reading. It left me so shaken I didn't read that book again until many years later. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 04:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
If Mystra transferred Halaster's madness to Asmodeus (I seem to remember it being more of an amnesia spell), I doubt it was permanent. Asmodeus is simply too powerful for that to happen in his own realm. Speaking of which, I wonder what sort of revenge Asmodeus has in store for Mystra?
It's more likely (given Asmodeus's history and power) that this madness simply did not effect him, and that his actual response was more in keeping with his more deceptive tendencies. Asmodeus has, in the past, lead others to believe that certain things (such as the assault on Malsheem just before the Reckoning) have affected him greatly in order to create a false sense of superiority in his opponents. This could simply be another of the Lord of the Ninth's many games which, in some twisted way, will somehow work to his advantage.
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 17:57:58
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Great Reader Lord Rad,
1) It began in -8500 DR, technically, as crypts for Aelinthaldaar, the capital of Illefarn. After that, it went into different hands, i.e. Drow, Duergar, Dwarves, and others, until Halaster.
2) No. It was Illefarn's, and went on from there.
3) 309DR.
4) Blackcloak used the Seven (his apprentices) and fell creatures summoned by them and himself, to construct the extra levels. It is usually, and erroneously thought, that the Dwarves previously (Meilarkin) had built the extra levels, but they didn't. They built part of the original Underhalls, as they are referred.
5) c.1148DR is when Skullport comes about. I don't have an exact year from what I can see.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Just wanted to start a new topic on Undermountain, leading on from another thread started by Bookwyrm.
To start, lets clarify a few details of origin....
1) I cant remember off hand but what was the first recording of Undermountain?
2) Was it originally a Netheril construction or Drow construction (or some other)?
3) When did Halaster come to be in Undermountain?
4) WhoWhat did Halaster "employ" to construct the exta levels to Undermountain?
5) When did Skullport appear?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 23:09:32
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I'm not certain the crypts of Aelinthaldaar. There are numerous dungeons in and around Waterdeep, and have not seen any reference to that before.
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 13:49:43
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Master Mage,
To begin, I want to thank you for holding me to the standard I feel I try to convey and attain in my writings: a high standard, upheld by rigorous quantified and qualified evidence. You clearly became a Loremaster here at Candlekeep because you yourself stick to such standards. So, thank you for helping me maintain those high standards, and thank you for making sure I was afforded the opportunity to present the information I should have provided the first time around. I feel it was really absent minded of me and frankly, lazy, to overlook that information being cited to support my views. Now, let's move on to the evidence of modern Undermountain beginning as crypts associated with a time inclusive of Aelinthaldaar.
Evidence That the First Construction in What is Now Undermountain, Began in -8500DR, in What Was Then Aelinthaldaar
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The first known settlement int he area was Aelinthaldaar, capital city of Illefarn. Founded around -8500 DR, Aelinthaldaar was razed by elven high magic in -1100 DR on the order of Illefarn's coronal when he initiated a retreat to Evermeet. Virtually nothing was left to indicate that an elf city had stood on the site for seven millennia. In -1088 DR, scarcely a dozen years after the razing of Aelinthaldaar, annual trade began between southern merchants and barbaric local tribes. The only known traces of Aelinthaldaar that still exist today are the crypts beneath the Pantheon Temple of the Seldarine (C66) and a high magic effect that persists even today (described in the next section). (City of Splendors: Waterdeep, p6)
Is There Any Connection Between The Elves of Aelinthaldaar and Dwarves In Undermountain?
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Halaster's dealings with his summoned servitors changed him. The more Halaster avoided human contact and dealt with otherplanar creatures, the stranger he became. He grew grim, given to long silences, sudden rages, and erratic behavior. He had his creatures dig storage caves, additional laboratories, and long exit-tunnels beneath his tower. This work went on for decades. At length, the tunnels broke into the old dwarven delvings called the Underhalls, once home to the long-vanished Melairkyn clan (only a fading memory, even then).
(Ruins of Undermountain, p4)
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As the Melairkyn extended the boundaries of their realms to include the topmost levels of what is now Undermountain, the leaders of Aelinthaldaar grew increasingly concerned.
(City of Splendors: Waterdeep, p7)
Did Halaster's Work with The Seven Break Into An Area That Includes Crypts of the Dwarves Though?
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The Lost Level was originally constructed by the Melairkyn dwarves nearly two thousand years ago and consecrated as a temple to Dumathoin. It serves as a burial tomb for what would prove to be the last dynasty of the Melairkyn clan rulers on Faerun.
(Undermountain: The Lost Level, p2)
Best regards,
[quote]Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I'm not certain the crypts of Aelinthaldaar. There are numerous dungeons in and around Waterdeep, and have not seen any reference to that before.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Undermountain
