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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 13:40:14
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Aside from the blurb in the FRCS, is there any other information available on Sharess being tempted by Shar to the “Dark Side” (For lack of a better term), then being saved by…erm, whoever? (No book with me.)
Novels, 2nd edition source books…anything?
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 14:39:31
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Saved by Sune.
"Sharess took the form of the favorite concubine of the pasha of Calimport and was liberated from the growing influence of Shar by Sune."
There is some fan lore (best I can tell is not cannon) that Sharess once was part of Shar.
"During the Time of Troubles when the gods were cast out of the pantheon, Shar and Sharess split but Sharess was under Shar's control. Shar being the goddess of darkness, Sharess being the goddess of hedonism. Shar's mortal enemy (I forget her name) tracked down Shar and they got into this big fight and Sharess was freed totally from Shar and Shar's control, hence in DnD world you got Sharess. "
Hmm many people forget Sune I guess.
There is also a reference to Dragon magazine, issue #290 and a dancing Drawf.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 14:47:50
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Right, Sune. Thanks.
And I don’t think that fan source you quoted was correct. From what I remember, Sharess merged with Bast. I think this was before the time of troubles.
No lore on how Shar was influencing her, then?
Or, for that matter, her merging with Bast? If we can’t find anything here, I’ll have to go tap Ed’s Head. :p
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 14:57:57
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Well I found this sounds close to canon
"HISTORY/RELATIONSHIPS: Bast was a Mulhorandi deity who served as patroness of cats and Anhur's lieutenant in the eternal struggle against Set. At the height of Mulhorand's second empire, when many beast cults were popular, Bast subsumed the portfolio of Felidae, a beast cult deity of felines, sensual pleasures, and nomads. Struck by wanderlust, Bast traveled across Faerun, leaving numerous cults in her wake, many of which knew her as Sharess. Sharess eventually began to experiment with the darker side of pleasure and fell under teh sway of Shar. She would have undoubtedly been wholly subsumed by the Dark Goddess if Sune had not freed her during the Time of Troubles. Since that time, Sharess has restored her ties of friendship with Anhur, Hanali Celanil, Liira, Milil, Nobanion, Selune, and Sune. She now works to oppose the evil of Set, Shar, and Loviatar, and Shar has never forgotten that Sharess escaped her clutches.
DOGMA: Life is to be lived to its fullest, in decadent sensual fulfillment of yourselves and others. That which is good is pleasurable and that which is pleasurable is good. Pleasure is to be sought out at every opportunity and life is to be lived as one endless revel. Spread the bounty of Sharess so that all may join in the endlesss revel of life and bring joy to all those in pain. Infinite experiences await those who would explore, so try the new as well as savoring the old." |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 15:05:42
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Ah...right. Thanks! My memory wasn't correct. Bast didn't merge with Sharess, Bast "subsumed" Felidae's portfolio and became Sharess. Alright.
This all sound very familiar. Where is it from?
I suppose my next question (aside from the outstanding "What did Shar do to Sharess") is who was Felidae, and where was she from? Just "Beast Cult"? And is there a time line for dates with any of this.
(I suppose it's pretty easy to see exactly how Sharess fell under Shar's sway, but and offical answer would be nice.) |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 15:27:25
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So if Sharess is merely Bast after the addition of the new portfolios then what of the previous Bast worshippers? I've also got to wonder about her alliance with Anhur and how her departure from tradition might impact that section of the panthion.
Incidentally it's an interesting precedence for a transfer of diety affiliation from foreign to Faerunian. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 15:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
So if Sharess is merely Bast after the addition of the new portfolios then what of the previous Bast worshippers? I've also got to wonder about her alliance with Anhur and how her departure from tradition might impact that section of the panthion.
Incidentally it's an interesting precedence for a transfer of diety affiliation from foreign to Faerunian.
I’m going to assume that the current Bast worshipers still call her Bast, and that Sharess still grants prayers under that name. However, we don’t know how long ago Bast became Sharess yet, so there may not be any “Bast” worshippers left. She seems to have left the Mulhondri pantheon entirely. Although I can’t see the people giving up their deity entirely.
I’d much rather say that the Mulhondri still worship Bast, or have just adapted to worshiping Sharess. Or, more likely, a combination of them both.
I also think that her departure from tradition, leaving the pantheon to become part of the melting pot FR pantheon, is one of the harbingers of doom that the Mulhondri pantheon fears, that the pantheon will cease to exist as a whole, and instead will be subsumed into the general population of the deities as they interact with the rest of the world.
In a small area, a god of cats (to prevent vermin eating your food) and a god of crocodiles (who also eat your herd animals and people) is a good idea. But, now that the rest of Faerun is taking notice, these gods are rather insignificant. Bast already adapted and changed to deal with that. Whats-his-name, the crocodile god, IMO is just waiting to be eaten up by someone. (My bet is for Tiamat or Set.)
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 15:56:56
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I pulled that from here http://www.nwncityofarabel.com/gods/sharess.htm an NWN site based on URL.
"FELIDAE (possibly, a dead goddess)
Felidae (Beast Cult Goddess of Felines, Sensual Pleasures, and Nomads, her portfolio and position were subsumed by Bast) (PaP 51-52) "
During the 2nd Empire of Mulhorand many choose to worship beasts. I can not find an official list, though if referring to Eygpian religion and animals you can use that as a base for which ones might have been used in FR. Certain camals, crocodiles, cats were venerated as I am sure other animals for one reason or another.
The end of the 2nd Empire is 922 The Year of the Spouting Fish.
So Felidae and Bast must have merged before then. Some think, but are uncertain, that Felidae is dead others argue that the combination of Felidae and Bast is what became Sharess.
As for Shar gaining influence a greater deity doinating a lessor one. I would infer that Sharess' quest for power of darkess is how Shar start to gain more and more control. Perhaps a merging was starting that the ToT interferred with (that Shar had not completed the process to be cast done as a meged deity). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 16:16:09
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| Sobhek is the crocodile god. Might have spelled it wrong. I think that in FR the inevitable is that the dieties will be subsumed into the FR melting pot. As their follower base blends so will they. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 16:28:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I pulled that from here http://www.nwncityofarabel.com/gods/sharess.htm an NWN site based on URL.
"FELIDAE (possibly, a dead goddess)
Felidae (Beast Cult Goddess of Felines, Sensual Pleasures, and Nomads, her portfolio and position were subsumed by Bast) (PaP 51-52) "
During the 2nd Empire of Mulhorand many choose to worship beasts. I can not find an official list, though if referring to Eygpian religion and animals you can use that as a base for which ones might have been used in FR. Certain camals, crocodiles, cats were venerated as I am sure other animals for one reason or another.
The end of the 2nd Empire is 922 The Year of the Spouting Fish.
So Felidae and Bast must have merged before then. Some think, but are uncertain, that Felidae is dead others argue that the combination of Felidae and Bast is what became Sharess.
As for Shar gaining influence a greater deity doinating a lessor one. I would infer that Sharess' quest for power of darkess is how Shar start to gain more and more control. Perhaps a merging was starting that the ToT interferred with (that Shar had not completed the process to be cast done as a meged deity).
Thanks Kentinal! That’s some great research you did there! Fast too!
I’m going to have to go with the merged theory, not the dead theory for Felidae. Bast herself would have no reason to have Nomads or Travel as part of her portfolio/domains, but Sharess has Travel as a domain and Bast was “Struck with wanderlust”. It sounds much more like a merging to me.
And I still wonder where Felidae came from. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
Edited by - Jindael on 07 Jul 2005 16:31:54 |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 16:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Sobhek is the crocodile god. Might have spelled it wrong. I think that in FR the inevitable is that the dieties will be subsumed into the FR melting pot. As their follower base blends so will they.
Sobhek sounds close enough.
And I agree. Sooner, rather than later, IMO. Should be a novel, too.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 16:36:27
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I've got to wonder, as the people change here, if they would develop something of a duality to them. One half of them the "new" persona, one half the original. (Since they still have a worshipper base in their native plane.)
Would be interesting to see something of a battle between the "Real" dieties and the new evolved ones and how that shakes loose. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 16:57:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
And I still wonder where Felidae came from.
Felidae is a "cat family is known by scientists as felidae and refers to an assortment of animals grouped as small and big cats. "
As for how animals in Mulhorand got deities I do not yet know. Perhaps the "Beasts cults" in time elevated the highest Cleric to demi-power and perhaps even higher.
In Egyptian myth Bast or Bastet had the body of a woman and the head of a cat. Many Egyptian deities had heads of animals as far as that goes. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 17:14:47
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Yea, I caught that. Thought it was interesting. Could be that people who spoke latin were there before the Mulhorand. But it’s about 200 times more likely that a generic and toss away feline sounding name was needed and that was plugged in.
I had thought before that, since Sharess still has cats as a portfolio, and is such a sensual deity, some sects would have her in her Bast form, feline headed.
Catgirls invade the realms 
I suppose the goddess Felidae could simply have been a worshiped concept that grew to deityhood, but I don't think there is any precedence for that in the realms, is there? |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 17:22:48
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quote:
Catgirls invade the realms
Oh my stars and garters... Why did it take us so long to get that angle figured out! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 17:29:55
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| Powers & Pantheons has info on this and it's mentioned in passing in the Sands of the Soul Sembia novel. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 17:41:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I suppose the goddess Felidae could simply have been a worshiped concept that grew to deityhood, but I don't think there is any precedence for that in the realms, is there?
Well cetainly mortals have climbed to deityhood though I believe they had help from a deity. The answer might lay elsewhere, there needed to be creators of the animals just as much of sentinal races. These powers perhaps very weak compared with powers that made humans or other races. Though as worship grew their power increased some.
I have not found an official answer as to concept becoming a deity or where Felidae first appeared in the Realms. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2020 : 20:16:22
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Great Reader Kentinal (or anyone else),
Do you happen to have a link that would lead me to that information still, as that link is now defunct.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I pulled that from here http://www.nwncityofarabel.com/gods/sharess.htm an NWN site based on URL.
"FELIDAE (possibly, a dead goddess)
Felidae (Beast Cult Goddess of Felines, Sensual Pleasures, and Nomads, her portfolio and position were subsumed by Bast) (PaP 51-52) "
During the 2nd Empire of Mulhorand many choose to worship beasts. I can not find an official list, though if referring to Eygpian religion and animals you can use that as a base for which ones might have been used in FR. Certain camals, crocodiles, cats were venerated as I am sure other animals for one reason or another.
The end of the 2nd Empire is 922 The Year of the Spouting Fish.
So Felidae and Bast must have merged before then. Some think, but are uncertain, that Felidae is dead others argue that the combination of Felidae and Bast is what became Sharess.
As for Shar gaining influence a greater deity doinating a lessor one. I would infer that Sharess' quest for power of darkess is how Shar start to gain more and more control. Perhaps a merging was starting that the ToT interferred with (that Shar had not completed the process to be cast done as a meged deity).
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Sharess tempted by Shar
