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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 22:53:41
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| I finally started this as well since I've finished what I was reading and I'm up to chapter 6ish. It'll be a fast read because it's a good tale and I like the Twisted Rune, aka Shyressa. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2005 : 19:36:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jess Lebow
Rinonalyrna: I hope you enjoy it. :)
-Jess
I did, very much so! I have to agree with one of the earlier posters that this was one of the best novels I've read in a long time. The novel flows...well, organically, for the most part. I never got the sense that things were happening just for plot convenience, and the characters all acted as I felt real people would.
I really liked Ryder as a character and as a person. The back cover of the book and one of the inner promos implies that Ryder turns into a very dark, cynical, hate-filled person, but I never really saw that, and that's a good thing. For the most part, the man maintains his honor and values, and I never lost sympathy for him or stopped liking him. He ends up cheating on his wife, but I kind of forgave him for that considering the circumstances--after all, he went for months without "getting any", so to speak, and at the same time an attractive woman made herself VERY available to him. How many men could have said no? It's good to have a protagonist with some normal human failings. The chain motif is used very often in this book, and to a good effect, enough to make me wonder if the title of the book, "Master of Chains", does not merely refer to a particular 3rd edition warrior prestige chains. At the same time, the title is sadly ironic, considering Ryder's situation at the end of the story. Did he ever really become "The Master of Chains" and triumph over his bondage? I think not.
And things are not much more easy for his brother, Liam. I could relate to Liam--the more quiet, thoughtful (but less socially adept) brother in the pair, and he handled the challenges thrown at him with a stoic grace, but also a willingness to adapt. He puts up with guilt over his brother's supposed death along with two bullying parents. It's possible the parents are so overbearing *because* they were being oppressed, but there's still no excuse for the way they acted. He eventually learns that the baron Purdun isn't such a bad guy (although he does have certainly questionable people in his employ--maybe he didn't know about their penchants for torture, but I doubt it), and along the way, he and Samira fall in love. I can't blame them for this, either. They both thought Ryder was dead, and it isn't realistic to expect anyone to remain celibate after their spouse's death--at least not to my modern sensibilities. Again, people are acting like real people, and this new love between Liam and Samira leads up to a brilliant and heartbreaking conflict that I honestly don't recall haven't read about in a long time. A bold move by the author, definitely.
On a side note, I enjoyed the setting of Erlkazar, and the scene involving farmwork. Farmers and farming are essential to the survival of the people of the Realms, yet how often do we read about such folk? I found it refreshing. I also liked Shyressa as a villain, and the fact that she essentially is NOT defeated.
A great read!
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2005 : 05:30:57
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I just received my copy this morning, and I'm already reading well into it.
Great stuff so far Jess  . And you've included the Twisted Rune... Another grand point.
I look forward to reading more. I'll comment as I delve further into the story.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 02:23:21
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I'm thoroughly enjoying this tale so far. I've just passed Chapter 6.
I am intrigued by the possibilities that'll eventuate if Liam decides to side with Purdun... while Ryder is left to languish in chains.
A interesting story Jess.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jess Lebow
Forgotten Realms Author
43 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 21:04:57
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Hey,
Kuje: Thanks. I really like the Twisted Rune as well. There isn't all that much written about them, but that sort of makes them even more mysterious.
Rinonalyrna: Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed reading your notes about the book. I think I agree that the cover art and the character of Ryder don't really match each other. But that having been said, I still think it's a good cover. (I'm glad that you forgave Ryder for his indiscretions. I was hoping that him being a very human character with flaws and all would be something people could relate to, not necessarily condemn him for.)
Sage: It's really cool for me to hear the thoughts that you're having while reading the book. When I'm writing, I know what's going to happen next, so it's hard to know for certain if I've injected enough mystery or intrigue into the story. Thanks.
-Jess
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 21:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Jess Lebow
Rinonalyrna: Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed reading your notes about the book. I think I agree that the cover art and the character of Ryder don't really match each other. But that having been said, I still think it's a good cover. (I'm glad that you forgave Ryder for his indiscretions. I was hoping that him being a very human character with flaws and all would be something people could relate to, not necessarily condemn him for.)
It's not the cover art I disagree with (I do like the art), but the little blurbs about what's inside the book: The little "promo" inside the book says something to the effect of, "The darkness he fights is matched only by the darkness in his soul(!!!)". That's dramatic enough, but not quite true--I don't think there is ever a time throughout the story where Ryder is just as bad as the villains are. Same with the back cover suggesting that all Ryder has left is his hate (again, not true at all!).
I'm glad you liked my comments.  I enjoyed reading about characters who were likable without being perfect. And as for Liam and Samira, I think they are a case in proving that not everyone grieves in the same way (after all, Ryder was gone and presumed dead for months; Samira didn't deserve to be alone for the rest of her life). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 22:12:04
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Ok, with all this hype on the boatd, I am going to have to go out and buy this book to read on my train ride home from Boston. I didn't look to deeply at any spoilers - but everyone seems to be raving about it.. so here I go. :)
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2005 : 01:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Jess Lebow
Sage: It's really cool for me to hear the thoughts that you're having while reading the book. When I'm writing, I know what's going to happen next, so it's hard to know for certain if I've injected enough mystery or intrigue into the story. Thanks.
-Jess
That's great to hear Jess  .
The next section I read through included the focus on the druid's grove and the Council of Awls. I particularly enjoyed the twist at the end of the battle sequence between the Crimson Awls and Purdun's guardsmen... Liam's basically left with no choice but to sign up. He's now "the traitor" regardless of whatever he can say to defend himself.
Obviously, this may change... so I eagerly press on.
The other part of the plot central to the story is Montauk's weaving of Shyressa's plans to assume control of the realm... I just love it. 'Tis good to see the Twisted Rune at their twisted best .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jess Lebow
Forgotten Realms Author
43 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2005 : 22:15:24
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Hail and well met,
Sage: Yeah, I really like the Twisted Rune. It's hard to argue with a covert group of super-powerful villains who can wait an eternity to watch their plans come to fruition. Fun villains to have as a writer.
I'm glad you're enjoying the book.
Grennen: Hope you're enjoying the story.
Rinonalyrna: I agree about Liam and Samira. They think Ryder is dead. They probably feel a lot of pain and guilt, but they're human, and they are attracted to each other. People do strange things when they grieve.
Cover copy for books like MOC are generally written long before the first draft is even turned over. It was probably written based on the outline I had delivered, which turned out to be very different than the final book. it's just one of those things I guess.
Thanks everyone.
-Jess
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2005 : 21:28:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jess Lebow
Cover copy for books like MOC are generally written long before the first draft is even turned over. It was probably written based on the outline I had delivered, which turned out to be very different than the final book. it's just one of those things I guess.
True--it's not as if I've never seen inaccurate back covers before. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 00:51:12
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Coming late to the party again...
<Grumble, grumble>
Having had a scroll through the comments above (trying to avoid spoilers along the way), I can heartily concur with them. I'm just under half-way through and the pages are flying by at a rate of knots, which is always a good sign.
The key to good writing for me is always character. I can forgive any number of stupid plot holes and/or coincidences (well, maybe not any) if the characters are believable and interesting. In this regard, 'Master of Chains' has pretty much hit the jackpot.
Brothers are a wonderful device in fantasy fiction - compare and contrast as my old English teacher used to say - and Ryder and Liam are no exception. Both are well-drawn but with quite different motivations and personalities - Ryder is the leader, driven by a fierce ideal of justice and infused with a true sense of tragedy by the incredible amount of suffering he undergoes. If the book was just about him, though, it would be considerably less significant. Ryder sees things in very clear absolutist terms. Liam, on the other hand, is faced with a choice that I feel Ryder would be incapable of making (witness his refusal to compromise when given an ultimatum by Giselle - pages 142-145) and, because his character is seen rejecting, agonising over and ultimately taking that choice, he enriches the novel and lends it a moral sophistication that I found particularly appealing.
And Jess Lebow makes the decision all the more difficult because he doesn't have Lord Purdun turning out to be just a misunderstood noble who's really a good guy at heart. (At least, that's not the way he comes across at the moment.) It's significant, for example, that Purdun doesn't even acknowledge Liam's passionate argument about taxation and state brutality (page 118), all of which adds a level of political grittiness to the tale that's often underplayed in Realms novels.
The harsh nature of Purdun's regime is constantly being underscored throughout the noble's 'wooing' of Liam by the interweaving narrative of Ryder's imprisonment and sadistic treatment at the hands of the taskmaster. The descriptions of Ryder's (interrupted) journey to Westgate and subsequent escape are visceral and bloody. (And I'd have to agree with Lord Rad's comments about Ryder's attack on the taskmaster - I had no idea that the human head could take such punishment and still function. )
When it's all said and done, this is an exciting, well-written and thought-provoking book. (There's a number of points about the nature of freedom and imprisonment I'm still mulling over and some of them have already been alluded to here... Maybe later.) Jess, if you're still checking in here, my hat (metaphorically at least) goes off to you. You've done a fine job.
Yours,
JDD |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2005 : 01:18:37
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quote:
Originally posted by J D Dunsany
Brothers are a wonderful device in fantasy fiction - compare and contrast as my old English teacher used to say - and Ryder and Liam are no exception. Both are well-drawn but with quite different motivations and personalities - Ryder is the leader, driven by a fierce ideal of justice and infused with a true sense of tragedy by the incredible amount of suffering he undergoes. If the book was just about him, though, it would be considerably less significant. Ryder sees things in very clear absolutist terms. Liam, on the other hand, is faced with a choice that I feel Ryder would be incapable of making (witness his refusal to compromise when given an ultimatum by Giselle - pages 142-145) and, because his character is seen rejecting, agonising over and ultimately taking that choice, he enriches the novel and lends it a moral sophistication that I found particularly appealing.
Wow, those are really great points. Well put, Dunsany. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 14:59:01
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You're very welcome. One of the things I love about reading in general and FR fiction in particular is seeing connections between characters, identifying differences in writers' styles - all that kind of stuff. But then, I am an English teacher by trade, so that's only to be expected!
But, like you (judging by some of your earlier posts), I always prefer fantasy novels in which the characters are somewhat flawed. How they deal with those flaws makes for another layer of interest and drama.
Bye for now!
JDD |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Jess Lebow
Forgotten Realms Author
43 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2005 : 23:54:30
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Hello again, my friends.
JD – Your comments are both insightful and well-reasoned. I thank you for spending so much energy on your critique.
I too agree that brothers are a great literary device. When I started MOC, I had thought I would use myself and my younger brother as models for Ryder and Liam. But in the end, they ended up taking on personalities of their own. The interesting part for me is that at the beginning, Liam and Ryder are very much the same character. They have the same upbringing, and very similar genes. But the story changes each of them in different ways. In the end, you sort of get to see what amounts to alternate futures for the same man.
I really like to write characters who have a human side to them—characters who exhibit behaviors that readers have either witnessed from others in real life or have experienced themselves. I think it adds to the emotional impact of a story. All of us humans are flawed, whether we want to believe it or not. I think fictional characters should mirror that.
Thanks again.
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2005 : 00:23:50
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Thanks for taking the time to reply to my meanderings, Jess. I'm still enjoying the book - just got to the Ryder and Giselle in the bath moment. And Montauk's made his play to King Korox. Very intriguing.
Your point about flawed characters is one with which I wholeheartedly concur. They add a level of realism to fantasy that I really appreciate.
But, if you don't mind me saying so, there's some real 'meat' to this story - I was going to say 'philosophical meat', but I'm not sure that's the right phrase. It seems this book is (at least partly) about how difficult it is to maintain an ideal in a politically complex situation - about how ideals can - sometimes - be just as restricting and oppressive as what you're raging against. I'm eagerly awaiting the confrontation between Ryder and Liam precisely for this reason. Much as I like both characters, I suspect my sympathies are going to lie with Liam. (Incidentally, the conversation between Knoblauch (you're not a baseball fan as well as a Batman fan by any chance?) and Liam on pages 179-184 is a particularly neat piece of character writing.)
Overall, I'm enjoying this one. Any chance of some more?
Yours in appreciation,
JDD |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Jess Lebow
Forgotten Realms Author
43 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 22:48:00
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Hello,
JD-My apologies in taking so long to respond.
You've caught me. I'm a huge baseball fan.
Years ago, I worked for a Budweiser distributor selling beer. As such I was part of the Teamsters union. I won't bore you with the details, but the experience I had while involved with the labor movement (which included working with several different political activist groups) led me in part to the conflict you're speaking of. Even when everyone is seemingly on your side, there are still internal politics that drive the day-to-day activities. In fact, it's not uncommon for a group or a person to compromise their position in exchange for something that may serve them better in the long run. Circumstantial ethics are a part of the human experience. When I wrote the brothers, Liam in particular, I wanted to create situations where the reader could see him or herself making the same choices. Liam gets pushed into a lot of things that he never thought he would have to deal with, yet they happen, and he makes the best choices he can given the knowledge he has. It's tough. I wouldn't want to be Liam. But those sorts of situations create good conflict. In truth, the more pain you cause your characters, the more interesting the story becomes.
This is a fascinating conversation. Thanks for bringing it up.
-Jess
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2005 : 23:43:58
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Hey Jess,
You already know what I think of Master, so I won't talk your ear off with more praise.
I wanted to let you know I was getting a copy of it for my dad for Christmas. He's a big fantasy fan, and I think he'll enjoy it mightily.
Happy Holidays!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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J D Dunsany
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
180 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 12:33:04
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Cheers, Jess. Thanks for replying.
(I should warn people that there are fairly major plot spoilers in this post, so, if you've not read the book, it might be as well to avoid this post.)
Just to let you know, I've finished 'Master of Chains' and thoroughly enjoyed it. I've got one or two (very minor) gripes which I'll get to in a minute, but overall I found it fast-paced, well written, with just the right mix of characterisation and action. The strongest part of the book for me remains Ryder's imprisonment and subsequent treatment at the hands of Phinneous and Cobblepot - dark stuff but tremendously powerful. That's not to say that the rest of the book isn't good either, but it was here that I thought you'd struck a particularly rich vein of inspiration.
The ending was fun - the potential for a chaotic anti-climax for the book was there, but you kept things clear and reasonably tight. I'm not going to comment on the plausability or not of the various factions and groups converging on Zerith Hold all at the same time, because I think we're all familiar with that type of 'coincidence' in fantasy fiction - the main thing is it was done with flair and excitement and, at the end of the day, it worked - largely because, by that point, you care about all the characters - including Purdun, Beetlestone, Giselle and Curtis (who's a fab character, btw!).
The confrontation between Ryder and Liam is portrayed well and resolves that conflict of interest we were talking about earlier without compromising the essence of either character. The arrival of the cavalry in the shape of King Korox and his magistrates was also terribly effective - but then I'm a sucker for precisely that kind of moment. (A tear came to my eye and a lump to my throat when the elves arrived at Helm's Deep even as my mind was screaming that it was wrong!)
My minor gripes are largely to do with pacing, which, to be fair, isn't something you could have done much about. (I'm assuming you had some kind of limit on page count.) The relationship between Liam and Samira develops over a period of months, I know, but it feels considerably shorter, and the way Purdun 'presents' her to Liam made my stomach turn a little - largely because it appeared to be a transparent and fairly low ploy at manipulation by Purdun, who I'd begun to warm to, and I thought it diminished the character of Samira a little to have her appear to be complicit in it, given that she had seemed so supportive of Ryder's anti-Purdun stance at the start of the novel. (That said, desire and love don't always think about that kind of thing, do they?)
The actual death of Ryder seemed a little muted in terms of the way it's described (I don't have the book to hand so I'm going by memory here) and it actually shocked me that he was being buried in the Epilogue. This leads me onto the final 'gripe' which is the fact you've left us with one heck of a tease... There's got to be a follow-up to this novel, hasn't there? Even if it's just a short(ish) story in an athology. You can't leave your characters (and readers) hanging like that... (Well, obviously you can, but you really shouldn't...)
Please don't get me wrong. I loved this book and want to read more. The above observations are intended just as that - observations - rather than out and out criticism. Your cast of characters is diverse and well-drawn and the novel is the kind of quintessential page-turner that Forgotten Realms authors as a whole generally do very well. As I've mentioned earlier, there is a more thoughtful aspect to the novel that I found as intriguing in its own way as all the high-octane action sequences. (I still haven't posted on the way issues of imprisonment/responsiblity are portrayed in the novel, but, without the book in front of me, I don't think I'd be able to do it justice.) In short, this is a great story and I'd like to thank you for sharing it with the rest of us.
Yours,
JDD |
"How content that young woman looks, don't you think? How content, and yet how flammable." - Lemony Snicket, The Unauthorized Autobiography |
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Zeb
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2006 : 10:33:45
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| Just finished reading this. Some of the character interaction was the best I've seen in any Realms novel so far. The description of Liam chained up and his parents visiting him, amazing stuff. Also, Jess, do you by any chance have younger siblings? The part about a younger brother being able to push their older sibling into the point of blinding rage faster than anyone else could etc was only one of the parts where I could very much identify with the brothers. |
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Jess Lebow
Forgotten Realms Author
43 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2006 : 20:44:51
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Hey, Zeb,
That's very astute of you. Yes, I do have a younger brother, and yes, he was quite good at tormenting me. :)
-Jess
(Sorry for the late answer. I just started a new job as the Lead Writer and Content Designer for Pirates of the Burning Seas, and I'm pretty swamped.) |
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Master of Chains (Spoilers)
