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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 06:47:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As for the other books, yeah, the lack of development and impact is rather difficult to get passed. It's hard to continue to be concerned about characters when you know that nothing will ever happen to them, and that they will be the same people a trilogy from now that they were a trilogy ago...
To this date, the only RAS series that I've completely enjoyed, was the Cleric Quintet. Thankfully, Cadderly has yet to suffer the same fate that Drizzt is suffering through now.
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TylerXKJ
Acolyte
27 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 06:11:55
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first post - yea!
The second Forgotten realms novel I ever read was RAS's The Two Swords. I liked the book so much I went and bought all the earlier Drizzt and co. books. I liked those books so much I went and bought every single realms novel I could afford. While it is true that I always know that Drizzt is gonna walk away alive at the end of the novel I know that things also always change a little.
It's the experiencs that Drizzt and Company go through and the characters they meet that make the stories good for me. Where's Drizzt from? What's Bruenor's lost Kingdom like? What's with Artemis and Jarlaxle? What if orcs get some divine backing? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2005 : 16:27:32
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Thats something that can be forgotten when its been . . . more than 15 years since I first read the series. I may have some critism of the characters and the character development over the course of the book series, but if youngsters get to love Silverymoon and Waterdeep, or wonder at a sea voyage to Calimshan, then we have a new scribe here at Candlekeep that loves the Realms.
Although I still don't like the fact that certain area then get tied up or rewritten due to the fact that every other author seems to have to go through editorial wrangling to change anything major, but one of them pretty much can do as he wishes . . . but such is the power of sales. |
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Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 21:52:31
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Ok well let me clarify it a little and I will also address something brought up by others.
What bugs me about Drizzt is not just the fact he doesn’t change in any major or minor way, honestly since the beginning I haven’t seen him evolve all that much. It is the same character in book one as it was in book 11. like Knight Errant I started reading him over a decade ago, that is a long time to be reading a series and see the same thing done time and again. Only one book changed the norm and that was Spine of the World, then he got blasted for that and went back to the same stuff.
My problem with him is this, he doesn’t write anything that doesn’t have to do with Drizzt and company or Cadderly, but as he said he won’t be touching those characters ever again. It has just grown stale, and the few short stories I have read by him have always featured Drizzt or someone related to him. to me it wouldn’t be so bad if we saw at least a new character in a short story never tied in with Drizzt or Entreri. I think Salvatore is a great writer, but come on no new characters outside of the Drizzt books not even in short stories?
That plus in all honesty Drizzt is starting to remind me of Goku, ug after the first two seasons of Dragonball Z I stopped watching it because it was the same old recycled story lines. Bad guy rises up threatens the realms, they fight, the hero is hurt but wins and saves the day. Plus inner suffering and self doubt, oyi.
And yes he is very popular, some of that is a self fulfilling prophecy. Because he is popular some books stores will only put his books on the shelves if they carry FR. My local waldens literally has two shelves of Forgotten Realms books, one and a half of that is Salvatore, and I am not kidding either. Right now I can’t even find any of the priest series, at least the first ones. But god knows they have ten copies of The Crystal Shard. If a boom store stocks only Salvatore of course that will be the first book most people read, like I said a self fulfilling prophecy.
As I asked before I just wonder if the Two Swords series, or whatever the name of the trilogy is, is worth reading or not. Does it deviate from the same plot lines in the other series, is there anything new in it that I can’t get from a source book? Is it different from all the other trilogies that is what I am wondering. did he find that old spark in this new series or not?
If not then it really isn’t worth the time, I got such a back log to read right now it isn’t even funny. So more then likely I will just skip tem till I am caught up years from now. To me the series are the same things told over again with new details replacing the old, when I read I want something new to tickle my imagination, not the same old stuff. Maybe that might help explain where I am coming from with this.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 22:03:33
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Yeah, I guess this is one thing that I always feel like I have to clarify whenever I critisize RAS. I wouldn't critisize him now if I didn't think he had great potential and if I didn't really enjoy his first few books. Homeland was an excellent book, and it introduced a wide range of characters as well as setting up how the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms was handled. It was great.
The only problem seems to be that while authors like Elaine Cunningham are specifically told not to use their old characters, and thus, even if by force, they branch out, just the opposite is true of RAS. Elaine has come up with some great new characters and has greatly developed existing ones (c'mon, tell me Elaith isn't a complex SOB), but it almost seems like RAS has to fight to keep his characters from moving forward. There are times it seems like the engine is revving full steam, so to keep the "vehicle" in place we tie a 2 ton block to the axle.
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Smyther
Learned Scribe
Canada
121 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2005 : 00:52:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Davids
If not then it really isn’t worth the time, I got such a back log to read right now it isn’t even funny. So more then likely I will just skip tem till I am caught up years from now. To me the series are the same things told over again with new details replacing the old, when I read I want something new to tickle my imagination, not the same old stuff. Maybe that might help explain where I am coming from with this.
'The Thousand Orcs' is all right, but still more of the same. 'The Lone Drow' lagged on and on for me, worst one RAS has written for Drizzt. 'The Two Swords' was the best of the three, going quickly, with more action and plot, but came to an abrupt end and left things hanging despite the fact that RAS has said he isn't going back to Drizzt. All in all, if you have the money and come to the choice between these three and another three FR books, ditch the Hunter's Blades Trilogy. I'd only reccomend them if you really want to see what Drizzt does or what happens to him, or if you're trying to read all the realms books out there (an original goal of mine that I now know I will never fulfill).
On topic, the Homeland/Exile/Sojourn books were excellent, but still not matching the original Icewind Dale trilogy. Excellent books with a solid plot (less so in Exile), and definately worth it. Homeland will remain in my high regards, but still not among the top ten. |
So sayeth the Smyther, the Dark Bard of Amn. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 21:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Smyther
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Davids
If not then it really isn’t worth the time, I got such a back log to read right now it isn’t even funny. So more then likely I will just skip tem till I am caught up years from now. To me the series are the same things told over again with new details replacing the old, when I read I want something new to tickle my imagination, not the same old stuff. Maybe that might help explain where I am coming from with this.
'The Thousand Orcs' is all right, but still more of the same. 'The Lone Drow' lagged on and on for me, worst one RAS has written for Drizzt. 'The Two Swords' was the best of the three, going quickly, with more action and plot, but came to an abrupt end and left things hanging despite the fact that RAS has said he isn't going back to Drizzt. All in all, if you have the money and come to the choice between these three and another three FR books, ditch the Hunter's Blades Trilogy. I'd only reccomend them if you really want to see what Drizzt does or what happens to him, or if you're trying to read all the realms books out there (an original goal of mine that I now know I will never fulfill).
On topic, the Homeland/Exile/Sojourn books were excellent, but still not matching the original Icewind Dale trilogy. Excellent books with a solid plot (less so in Exile), and definately worth it. Homeland will remain in my high regards, but still not among the top ten.
Yes, the two swords was the best of the lot, and a big reason is that "the bad guy" king Obould Many-Arrows comes out on top. Books where "the bad guys" don`t get completely thrashed are the best IMO. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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jmf
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 19:13:41
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| i just got done reading starless night and it was pretty cool, can't wait to start siege of darkness. |
new too forgotten realms help me |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 21:59:54
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| *remains silent, cuz he said his piece on Wolverine...err Drizzt (and even Wolvie had his adamantium ripped out by Magneto)* |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 16:27:11
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Well, like some people said, he tried out a new formula with Spine of the World and it caught more flak from the fans than a german air bombardment over London during WW2. That is probably the reason things are static. He tried to develop and got punched in the face. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 14 Aug 2006 16:28:37 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Well, like some people said, he tried out a new formula with Spine of the World and it caught more flak from the fans than a german air bombardment over London during WW2. That is probably the reason things are static. He tried to develop and got punched in the face.
Yeap. And I agree too with the fact that the two first trilogies (Icewind Dale and Dark Elf are real good reads! 
My first contact with the Realms nove was the Avatar trilogy, and the second was the Icewind Dale (the first Forgotten Realms novels released in brazilian portuguese - The Halflings Gem hit the shelves last month)  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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jmf
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:53:18
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| ummmmmmmmmmmm may i ask what he tried in spine of the world and got punched for it? |
new too forgotten realms help me |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 02:49:35
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quote:
Originally posted by jmf
ummmmmmmmmmmm may i ask what he tried in spine of the world and got punched for it?
I got the impression people didn't like:
--The focus on Wulfgar rather than Drizzt (the impression I've gotten over the years is that die-hard Drizzt fans aren't nearly as enthusiastic about Wulfgar).
--The "romance novel" elements, featuring a peasant girl, her not-so-stable lover, the lord trying to woo her, her rivalry with the lord's shrewish sister, and the pregnancy she tries to keep hidden. All this traditionally "girly" stuff in a series greatly loved by action loving young males? You connect the dots. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 04:23:52
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| I didn't have a problem with that book, myself. It didn't particularly impress me, but I can't recall disliking anything at all about it. As I recall, I did enjoy it more than I enjoyed the Hunter's Blade trilogy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 05:16:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I didn't have a problem with that book, myself. It didn't particularly impress me, but I can't recall disliking anything at all about it. As I recall, I did enjoy it more than I enjoyed the Hunter's Blade trilogy.
I enjoyed it, too (as I've mentioned here before), but apparently we were in the minority, or the perceived minority. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Aug 2006 05:17:01 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 09:21:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Oops, this appears to be a "Homeland" discussion  
A rather old Homeland discussion I just noticed
Spine of the World caused the same reaction from me when I first read it. I was wondering what the bloody hell the Mekale (if that was her name?) storyline had to do with Wulfgar.
In all honesty that single novel had IMO more character development than any novel after the 2nd trilogy. Why people complained is still confusing me... oh well I prolly cannot get into the mind of anyone who prefers combat scenes so detailed they could almost be pornographic... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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jmf
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2006 : 20:06:59
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| i have another question about in the hunters blade trilogy does gerti get her wish by getting the marchions head and shoudras? just wandering |
new too forgotten realms help me |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 01:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by jmf
i have another question about in the hunters blade trilogy does gerti get her wish by getting the marchions head and shoudras? just wandering
Highlight to read spoiler:
No. I don't think The Two Swords even mentions the marchion. Shoudra does die in battle, but there's no mention of Gerti getting her head.
Wait, didn't Gerti say she wanted Alustriel's head? In that case, the answer is obviously no.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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jmf
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2006 : 21:19:53
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| ok thanks. |
new too forgotten realms help me |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 00:22:54
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| I loved the Icewind Dale trilogy, it was my first FR book. The I read Homeland, and the rest of the Dark Elf Trilogy, and liked those as well. As for the rest, I'll just have to agree with Wooly. You can only beat an old horse so many times before it gets tiring. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2007 : 23:09:14
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I think my biggest problem right now is not the unchanging nature of the stories but the fact that there is change and its frozen in mid step. Drizzt and Cattie Brie is unresolved while Wulgar has still his quest to go after his Alu-Fiend children. That's a pretty big set of plotlines there sidelined for an attack of a bunch of orcs.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Book discussion:Homeland
