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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 11 May 2005 : 15:07:48
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Several scribes here, along with myself, have already suggested the likelihood that we won't be picking up Heroes of Battle, in another scroll.
However, I would be curious to read a brief synopsis for each chapter, perhaps detailing the main points of each section. I'm asking specifically, because I'd much rather it be from the perspective of a player or DM, rather than from the advertising staff at WotC Online.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 May 2005 15:08:49 |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 00:16:51
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I bought this particular tome and am very happy with my purchase. It is definitely not for every campaign but since I'm running a Zhentarim campaign the prospect of a large scale battle is very likely.
The sample battlefield encounters (chapter 3) is really cool as are some of the ways to use a battlefield as a "dungeon". Some of the new magic items are also interesting.
I am not a huge fan of the victory point optional rule however.
Overall I think it is an excellent book but not really a "must-have". Very helpful if you use this style of game, pretty useless if you do not. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 05:26:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Several scribes here, along with myself, have already suggested the likelihood that we won't be picking up Heroes of Battle, in another scroll.
However, I would be curious to read a brief synopsis for each chapter, perhaps detailing the main points of each section. I'm asking specifically, because I'd much rather it be from the perspective of a player or DM, rather than from the advertising staff at WotC Online.
Here you go Sage
Chapter 1: The War Campaign: this is a basic overview of how to plan a war campaign, offers suggestions and ideas, not much crunch.
Think Big/Play Small
PC Roles
Pacing
Campaign Planning
Military Organizations: An overview of traditional military organizations, modern, feudal, and tribal.
Chapter 2: Building Adventures- The crunch of how to design and runa war campaign. Offers some good ideas for running large scale campaigns that may not fit on your game map. I've rarely had much of a problem with this, so much of this section may be limited in its use outside of this tome.
Hooks
Designing the Battlefield
Adventure Flowchart
Designing a Fantasy Army
Building Battlefield Encounter Maps
Rewards
When Things Go Off the Chart
Random Encounters
Chapter 3: Battlefield Encounters
Sample Encounters
Specific Units: Tannar'ric Horde, Baatezu Brigade
XP: XP penalties based upon the amount of support the PCs receive, could be used in a regular campaign if the party has a powerful NPC with them.
Chapter 4: Rules of War
Siege Engines: Siege engines are detailed well, may or may not find much use in a normal campaign.
Aerial Bombardment: Probably not too useful for regular encounters
Volley of Arrows: I really like this, basically, make one roll to hit a target area, creatures within the area avoid damage with a reflex save.
Strategic Advantages: This is decent fluff for preparing for battle.
The Morale Check: Morale checks made if creature loses 50% hp or half of their party. This could come into play in a dungeon, if you wanted to bother with it, I think it could add some realism.
Commanders: Commander auras assigned by rank. The rank is assigned by recognition points, but could easily be adapted to a regular game by using Leadership scores. This is a pretty cool concept, it could add some additional benefits to the Leadership feat.
Victory Points: Points awarded for the party's actions, the more points awarded, the better the outcome for their army.
Recognition Points: A way to add rank and medals to PCs
Battlefield Award Summary
Chapter 5: The Military Character
Skills: New ways to apply old skills to material in this tome.
Feats: Some of these feats in general seem to require the use of other material in this tome, but others could find use in the Realms.
PrC: More Prestige Classes, I actually like each of these, they could be used in nearly any campaign.
Teamwork Benefits
Chapter 6: Magic of War
Spells, Magic Items, and Magic Seige Engines. This chapter has some interesting spells, new armor and weapon abilities. But the Heraldic Crests offer a new type of item that can be used by anyone with the Leadership feat.
Just a guess, but I'd say that I could use 50-60% of this material in my current campaign without delving into the war aspect of it. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 06:20:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Specific Units: Tannar'ric Horde, Baatezu Brigade
That's a shame...  . There doesn't look to be any details on yugoloth mercencary units.
What can you briefly tell me about the demon and devil specific unit details?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 11:43:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Specific Units: Tannar'ric Horde, Baatezu Brigade
That's a shame... . There doesn't look to be any details on yugoloth mercencary units.
What can you briefly tell me about the demon and devil specific unit details?
It pretty much gives a sample of each group and what their role/tactics are in warfare.
The Tanar'ric Horde consists of...
A Command Retinue: Marilith (EL 17)
Air Assault: 6 Vrocks (EL 14)
Strike Team: 6 Babaus (EL 11)
Infantry: 10-40 Dretches led by a Hezrou (EL 12-13)
The Baatezu Brigade consists of....
Command Retinue: 2 Horned Devils and an Ice Devil (EL 18)
Scout Troops: An Erinyes and a Barbed Devil (EL 8 or 12)
Shock Troups: 8 Bearded Devils (EL11)
Strike Team: 8 Bearded Devils, 2 Bone Devils, and an Ice Devil (EL 15) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 13:46:38
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This demoniacal war units made me remember of a certain image in a certain Planescape book:
"Welcome to the Glorious Baatezu Army!!!"... and a great amount of nonsense write... That one our game group sincerally think in plot in some t-shirts... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 14:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
The Tanar'ric Horde consists of...
A Command Retinue: Marilith (EL 17)
Air Assault: 6 Vrocks (EL 14)
Strike Team: 6 Babaus (EL 11)
Infantry: 10-40 Dretches led by a Hezrou (EL 12-13)
The Baatezu Brigade consists of....
Command Retinue: 2 Horned Devils and an Ice Devil (EL 18)
Scout Troops: An Erinyes and a Barbed Devil (EL 8 or 12)
Shock Troups: 8 Bearded Devils (EL11)
Strike Team: 8 Bearded Devils, 2 Bone Devils, and an Ice Devil (EL 15)
This is particularly strange, especially when you consider how prominent yugoloths are in many of the standard fiendish formations that participate in conflicts, like the Blood War for example.
I would have expected a few piscoloths and mezzoloths at the very least...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 14:34:07
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Im thinking of running a massed battle in my Banites on the March campaign ie the Nasty events for the Dalelands if City of Spider queen isnt finished "promptly" |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 19:31:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
The Tanar'ric Horde consists of...
A Command Retinue: Marilith (EL 17)
Air Assault: 6 Vrocks (EL 14)
Strike Team: 6 Babaus (EL 11)
Infantry: 10-40 Dretches led by a Hezrou (EL 12-13)
The Baatezu Brigade consists of....
Command Retinue: 2 Horned Devils and an Ice Devil (EL 18)
Scout Troops: An Erinyes and a Barbed Devil (EL 8 or 12)
Shock Troups: 8 Bearded Devils (EL11)
Strike Team: 8 Bearded Devils, 2 Bone Devils, and an Ice Devil (EL 15)
This is particularly strange, especially when you consider how prominent yugoloths are in many of the standard fiendish formations that participate in conflicts, like the Blood War for example.
I would have expected a few piscoloths and mezzoloths at the very least...
Yes, the lack of yugoloths irked me a bit. The other thing that bothered me was the racial breakdown of the sample encounters. Although the sample encounters are very cool, the enemy force is always a collection of bugbears, goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, ogres and gnolls all teamed together.
In my opinion the various evil humanoid races would need some outside force keeping them together. I really don't see an alliance of evil humanoid races as a typical occurance. |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 22:22:30
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quote:
Yes, the lack of yugoloths irked me a bit. The other thing that bothered me was the racial breakdown of the sample encounters. Although the sample encounters are very cool, the enemy force is always a collection of bugbears, goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, ogres and gnolls all teamed together.
In my opinion the various evil humanoid races would need some outside force keeping them together. I really don't see an alliance of evil humanoid races as a typical occurance.
An outside force like say, the desire for power, riches and sweet, sweet carnage? I agree with your complaint to an extent, but I can easily picture that grouping with a big nasty ogre mage with wizard levels leading an army composed of those various races. Mmm... ogre magi... 
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 22:52:33
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Well met
I picked this tome up today and I must say i'm very impressed to date This is one of the best core D&D tomes WotC have done in a long time. The detail and coverage is spendid and i'm finding much of the content of great interest and of good use. I didn't expect much from this tome but it has pleasantly surprised me and it will remain on my reading table for a good time to come.
In addition to the textual content, it was well presented and the accomanying interior artwork is perfect, with a more brutal and darker edge that what is maybe expected. Numerous flowcharts for encounter paths are also given.
A worthy tome indeed |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 23:13:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
Command Retinue: 2 Horned Devils and an Ice Devil (EL 18)
Scout Troops: An Erinyes and a Barbed Devil (EL 8 or 12)
Shock Troups: 8 Bearded Devils (EL11)
Strike Team: 8 Bearded Devils, 2 Bone Devils, and an Ice Devil (EL 15)
Does this include full stat-blocks, or are the encounters simply listed to calculate the Encounter Levels? |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 01:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im thinking of running a massed battle in my Banites on the March campaign ie the Nasty events for the Dalelands if City of Spider queen isnt finished "promptly"
Have you run massed battles using 3ed before?
Nope Im currently thinking of doing it on a strategic level ie the battle will be fought on a Battle map detailing the central Dalelands |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 02:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
The detail and coverage is spendid and i'm finding much of the content of great interest and of good use.
Hmmm... Curious.
Was there any particular aspect of the tome that piqued your interest specifically, Big Al?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 09:00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
The detail and coverage is spendid and i'm finding much of the content of great interest and of good use.
Hmmm... Curious.
Was there any particular aspect of the tome that piqued your interest specifically, Big Al?
Well met
I found it generally very imformative. Details of structures and various military hierarchies and seige engines were of particular interest. I was also happy to see numerous scenario's and battle plans detailed. Basically, chapters 1 - 4 kept me occupied for quite some time. I had to rush through the following chapters a bit more (i'll go back to these later), as I still hadn't opened up Champions of Ruin (I was saving the best 'til last  ) and time was getting on  I'll post more thoughts on both tomes soon. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 11:31:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
I found it generally very imformative. Details of structures and various military hierarchies and seige engines were of particular interest. I was also happy to see numerous scenario's and battle plans detailed. Basically, chapters 1 - 4 kept me occupied for quite some time. I had to rush through the following chapters a bit more (i'll go back to these later), as I still hadn't opened up Champions of Ruin (I was saving the best 'til last ) and time was getting on I'll post more thoughts on both tomes soon.
Wait a second... Given a choice, you read a non-Realms book before a Realms book? Big Al, I'm disappointed with you!   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 12:52:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wait a second... Given a choice, you read a non-Realms book before a Realms book? Big Al, I'm disappointed with you!
Well met
Aye, I wondered if someone would comment on that point As I said though, I was saving the best 'til last I just didn't expect Heroes of Battle to grab me as much as it did. Fear not though, my furry friend, for I have a good few hours set aside over the next couple of days for some quality time with Champions of Ruin |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 17:53:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wait a second... Given a choice, you read a non-Realms book before a Realms book? Big Al, I'm disappointed with you!
Well met
Aye, I wondered if someone would comment on that point As I said though, I was saving the best 'til last I just didn't expect Heroes of Battle to grab me as much as it did. Fear not though, my furry friend, for I have a good few hours set aside over the next couple of days for some quality time with Champions of Ruin
Just keep in mind that I'll remember this one...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 02:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
The detail and coverage is spendid and i'm finding much of the content of great interest and of good use.
Hmmm... Curious.
Was there any particular aspect of the tome that piqued your interest specifically, Big Al?
Well met
I found it generally very imformative. Details of structures and various military hierarchies and seige engines were of particular interest. I was also happy to see numerous scenario's and battle plans detailed. Basically, chapters 1 - 4 kept me occupied for quite some time. I had to rush through the following chapters a bit more (i'll go back to these later), as I still hadn't opened up Champions of Ruin (I was saving the best 'til last ) and time was getting on I'll post more thoughts on both tomes soon.
I know I asked about yugoloths in general earlier, but now I'm curious as to whether they've been specifically mentioned anywhere in the sourcebook?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2005 : 08:10:08
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This product has received an absolute shellacking on the ENWorld Boards. Some not very nice comments, at all.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2005 : 09:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
This product has received an absolute shellacking on the ENWorld Boards. Some not very nice comments, at all.
-- George Krashos
Hmmmm, I tend to avoid ENworld these days, I find it to be quite...well anyway.
I have personally been very impressed by this sourcebook. It's one of the better D&D core books to come out for some time for me and have found much of the content to be of great use and interest. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2005 : 17:34:18
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
This product has received an absolute shellacking on the ENWorld Boards. Some not very nice comments, at all.
-- George Krashos
Out of curiosity, what kind of treatment do new supplements usually receive over there? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2005 : 01:25:49
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The generic ones get a lot of comment and play but the setting-specific stuff, like CoR recently, get little or no comment that I've seen. Also, there is alot more focus on non-WotC products and campaign settings and the impression I get is that it's not 'cool' to still like FR, you have to be into places like Iron Kingdoms (whatever that is! ).
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2005 : 03:28:57
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
the impression I get is that it's not 'cool' to still like FR, you have to be into places like Iron Kingdoms (whatever that is!).
-- George Krashos
Oh Dark Maiden, I'm not part of the cool population of the internet. Whatever shall I do?  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2005 : 05:37:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
the impression I get is that it's not 'cool' to still like FR, you have to be into places like Iron Kingdoms (whatever that is!).
-- George Krashos
Oh Dark Maiden, I'm not part of the cool population of the internet. Whatever shall I do?
I can teach you a little bit of l33t-speak... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Heroes of Battle
