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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
 Posted - 06 May 2005 : 15:02:05
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An ok cover, I suppose...
I am pleased to see SKR back working on FR books  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 15:05:38
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This tome doesn't release until October/November, so I'm assuming that the image may still change before that.
Otherwise, it is interesting. It looks like a hippogriff in the background, although I am looking at this image through a fairly poor and archaic monitor...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 00:39:53
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| Hmm... it looks okay, though I prefer the cover for Champions of Ruins. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 01:32:13
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Is that a paladin being crushed in the lower left-hand corner?
*calls on the artist PETP: People for the Ethical Treatment of Paladins* 
Looks pretty interesting, of course since this is only the front cover that doesn't really say all that much, but I like the art.
Oooh... I think I see an aasimar too... I heart the planetouched.
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Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 10:30:19
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Well if there's one thing you have to give WotC credits for, it's the beautiful covers they are presenting to us!  |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 14:42:28
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I wonder if this book will give hints about how to play paladins as something else than lawful stupid?
More seriously, I wonder if it will stat out some epic-level good beings, the way Champions of Ruins will stat the likes of Kezef the Chaos Hound and Ityak-Orteel the Elf-eater. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 16:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
More seriously, I wonder if it will stat out some epic-level good beings, the way Champions of Ruins will stat the likes of Kezef the Chaos Hound and Ityak-Orteel the Elf-eater.
Hmmm... yeah, for symmetry's sake there really ought to be some Elder Eternal Goods. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 19:07:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
I wonder if this book will give hints about how to play paladins as something else than lawful stupid?
That's a good point... LG and CE are the two most misunderstood alignments, I think, followed by CN. I was pleased to see a section in CoR that addresses how to be evil, instead of leaving players with the misconception that CE always equals raving psycho hosebeast that kills people on a whim.
That's why I liked Priam Agrivar in the old FR comic. He was a paladin, but he wasn't Lawful Stupid. He had his own problems (being a recovering alcoholic), and he realized that shades of grey didn't always mean evil. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 May 2005 19:12:53 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 10:46:10
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| He (Priam Agrivar) did need to duel a red dragon and inadvertently cause the death of a deer to realise it though. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 14:43:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
He (Priam Agrivar) did need to duel a red dragon and inadvertently cause the death of a deer to realise it though.
'Tis true. But he did learn, and acted accordingly. A lot of people tend to portray paladins as someone unable to see shades of grey. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 23:24:33
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Hmm... but isn't that the thing about paladins, how they are all just about good and don't notice the "grey"? After all, this is often how paladins stray in their path and become beings of great evil.
For example, Cycillia (sp?) Darkhope, who had been a paladin of Tyr. Then there's archons, devas, and solars who turned evil; like Malkizid who is a fallen solar. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 08:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... but isn't that the thing about paladins, how they are all just about good and don't notice the "grey"? After all, this is often how paladins stray in their path and become beings of great evil.
For example, Cycillia (sp?) Darkhope, who had been a paladin of Tyr. Then there's archons, devas, and solars who turned evil; like Malkizid who is a fallen solar.
Well this only happens to very few paladins. However, players tend to role-play their paladins like those few and that can become really anoying when you're in a party with a CN or even a CG barbarian for example. Somehow there's never a way to argue with paladins... |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 09:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Then there's archons, devas, and solars who turned evil...
Let us not forget one of the most "obvious" examples of high celestial creatures becoming purely evil entities.
The Lord of the Seventh, Baalzebul himself, was once an archon named Triel. But his quest for perfection ultimately led to his downfall. A downfall so far that he would end up as a Lord in the Nine Hells...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 09:13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Then there's archons, devas, and solars who turned evil...
Let us not forget one of the most "obvious" examples of high celestial creatures becoming purely evil entities.
The Lord of the Seventh, Baalzebul himself, was once an archon named Triel. But his quest for perfection ultimately led to his downfall. A downfall so far that he would end up as a Lord in the Nine Hells...
Where can I find more information on this? |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 09:24:29
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The most recent information on Baalzebul can be found in the 3e Book of Vile Darkness. It is written by Monte Cook.
More definitive information concerning the Slug Archduke can be found in the 2e Guide to Hell by Chris Pramas. That tome also elaborates on Baalzebul's role in the Reckoning which led to the Lord of the Seventh's current slug-like appearance and state.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 May 2005 09:30:27 |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 09:45:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The most recent information on Baalzebul can be found in the 3e Book of Vile Darkness. It is written by Monte Cook.
More definitive information concerning the Slug Archduke can be found in the 2e Guide to Hell by Chris Pramas. That tome also elaborates on Baalzebul's role in the Reckoning which led to the Lord of the Seventh's current slug-like appearance and state.
Hehe, I've bought BoVD a couple of weeks ago, but haven't got any time to read it yet. And that other tome you're mentioning...well, maybe I'll try to get a copy it on eBay. I've been collecting 2nd edition FR-stuff for the last year and I thought my collection was almost complete NOT! |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2005 : 14:36:44
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Guide to Hell is not strictly an FR 2e tome. It is specifically an AD&D sourcebook which is based around the 2e Manual of the Planes. In other words, it is not campaign-specific, so I wouldn't worry about not having it as part of your 2e FR sourcebook collection  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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michaelmueller
Acolyte
Canada
21 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 21:06:55
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| Does anyone know who did the cover art for it? It looks kind of like Wayne Reynolds...not sure, though. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 12:01:40
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quote:
Originally posted by michaelmueller
Does anyone know who did the cover art for it? It looks kind of like Wayne Reynolds...not sure, though.
Exactly what I was going to ask and I'm also wondering if they used the same cover artist that did the cover for Champions of Ruins. |
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 23:01:57
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... but isn't that the thing about paladins, how they are all just about good and don't notice the "grey"? After all, this is often how paladins stray in their path and become beings of great evil.
For example, Cycillia (sp?) Darkhope, who had been a paladin of Tyr. Then there's archons, devas, and solars who turned evil; like Malkizid who is a fallen solar.
True. You have to walk a fine line as a paladin but I think walking black and white is just as dangerous as recognizing the grey. Ahem, back to the topic at hand. 
Hopefully we'll get some pointers in this book as to how to play paladins of specific gods of the Realms or even, gods forbid, Paladin Codes for the individual churches.  |
Edited by - Ty on 07 Jun 2005 23:03:02 |
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seankreynolds
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 04:22:38
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{I wonder if this book will give hints about how to play paladins as something else than lawful stupid?}
Yes, it does. It spends a few pages on valorous archetypes for each class and race, then about 4 pages on "Imperfect Champions of Good" -- reasons for valorous heroes to be "flawed" but still be valorous in that context. It also breaks down conflicts between law and chaos or law and law. And other stuff, which I'll get into in the main COV thread (this thread's short so I'm able to finish it quick, I'm composing a bunch of replies in the other thread, as I've been away for a long time). |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 14:49:47
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The cover art is definitely not Wayne Reynolds - it is Tomas Giorello.
And Sean: Awesome book - I like the section on the differences that arise even between two good characters!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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seankreynolds
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 14:52:41
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| Thanks! (Though I have to admit that was something WotC put in the outline, so I didn't think up the _idea_ for including it.) |
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Champions of Valor (Frontcover)
