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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 15:11:19
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Around 2003, one of the PCs in my campaign travelled from Shadowdale south to Mistledale, and then continued to Battledale. Not knowing how eastern Mistledale looked like, I decided to elaborate the dale.
My goal, was to have a better understanding of Mistledale's army and Mistledale's eastern settlements. One of the most important questions that I had, was, where did the folk of Mistledale live. Mistledale, with a population of 27,807 inhabitants has a small town with 1,869 inhabitants. But, where are the rest? And, in what kind of settlements (or communities) do they live? That is, do Mistrans live in farmsteads, thorps, hamlets, villages, and so on. So, I decided how many communities there would exist in Mistledale, how many of them would be found in eastern Mistledale, and then I made detailed maps of eastern Mistledale.
The result of my work was a 3 pages short document about Mistledale, written in Swedish. The maps, they are in paper. So, I would need to scan them. Nevertheless, I am updating my homepage with the information that I wrote, and, will add the maps.
But, how about your Mistledale? How have you elaborated your Mistledale?
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 16:31:23
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Ah a nice read I must say. Also nice to see those swedish names on places. Was a while since I saw/ heard that. All though we had some different translations but some are the same, or rather most of them is. But I never recall we played in Mistledale. The closest would have been, of course, Skuggdalen.(Shadowdale) If one of my Pbem groups ever make it ot Mistledale I sure know where to look for ideas though  |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 17:53:51
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As it stands, my PCs are in Mistledale right now. My take so far has been a little like this. Obviously you know the population of Ashabenford and how it is set up. Glen is a relatively small town with a dwarven population, and while there are some dwarves that live and work along the Low Road, obviously they aren't counted in the population.
I have assumed that the Abbey of the Golden Sheaf has quite a few faithful farming the immediate areas around them. These farms tend to be farmers dedicated to the worship of Chauntea, and so tend to produce a lot of surplus to be stored in the Abbey in case of foul weather, bad production years, etc.
I don't imagine a lot of communities out toward the Beast Lands, and I think Pelden's Helm is only there due to the stream of adventures that come to hunt the monsters. Most of the farms in that area are likely to be smaller one withing sight or easy travel distance of the Moonsea Ride. I would imagine there aren't many to the south of the Ride near the Barrow Fields, though there may be a few since the discriptions of the area mention farmers straying that way every once in a while.
Since Dumic is spoken of as being a rancher, and is noted as being from the Western Glens, I would assume most of the farms in this direction raise livestock, which would make sense since most of them would be nearer to the Moonsea Ride, and thus easier to load up and march down the road.
Targen Holfast is mentioned as the representitive that keeps an eye on the interests of the loggers, trappers, and hunters to the north, so I would guess that along the River Ashaba to the north of Ashabenford you have a few smaller communities, with some ranger lodges thrown in for good measure, and likely very closely watched by the Abbey of Silvanus in the region, most likely forcing them to keep up the "plant two for every one" and "use the deadfalls first" maxims of the Dales. The Mistle Trail likely provides a good deal of clearings for a few clustered cabins and smokehouses here and thare, at it runs parallel with the Ashaba.
Ulwen Sharin is the representitive of the Sharin Freeholds, a large stand of farms that are owned by her family, but farmed by others that are hired by her. Considering the name of the "Freehold" and the nature of the Dales, the farmers here are likely not peasants bound to work the land for the local lord, but rather hirelings hired by "contract" with a landowner, and thus not especially either bound nor protected by their employer, but still "free".
I would also guess that along either side of the Moonsea Ride along this path there are other operations that are similar, with a landowner with more land than competent kin and gold enough to hire some to farm it for them. The Sharin Freehold is likely the largest and most organized, and thus a member of the Sharin Freeholds represents the area.
Back to Pelden's Helm, in my campaign our PC cleric of Helm is thinking of trying to raise an Abbey of the Unblinking Eye near here, both to bolster Helm's worship, and to help guard the town and the road from attacks from the creatures in the Beast Lands, and to possible patrol the southern area across the Ride, into the Barrow Fields.
I would also assume that there are a few way stations established along the Moonsea Ride, the Mistle Trail, and the Holy Road for the Mistledale Lancers to help them while they are on patrol. I would guess the Mistle Trail gets the least attention from them, since its unlikely a good size patrol could follow it.
My own PCs have only truly spend a good deal of time in the Beast Lands, in Ashabenford, and in Glen (as well as taking a trip as a bodyguard to a wizard travelling to Scardale, but they teleported there).
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 18:00:22
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| I appologize for not being able to speak or read your language. I was perusing your site and it seems very well done, in terms of content. It makes me want to post a website for my players to organize some of my notes all in one place. |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2005 : 20:49:29
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Hi KnightErrantJR,
I am translating from Swedish to English the section of Mistledale. At the moment, my whole homepage is a mix of Swedish and English.
Best regards,
Manuel |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 00:50:26
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Back in 2003, I did divide Mistledale in four districts, each 500 square miles big (population in %):
- Western Mistledale (10%)
- Western Middle Mistledale (20%)
- Eastern Middle Mistledale (35%)
- Eastern Mistledale (35%)
Western Mistledale, starts 21 miles west from Ashabenford and stretches 33 miles from Ashabenbord. Western Middle Mistledale starts 12 miles west of Ashabenford and stretches 21 miles from Ashabenford. Eastern Middle Mistledale stretches 12 miles to the west and stretches 6 miles to the east. Eastern Mistledale starts 6 miles east of Ashabenford and stretches 23 miles east from Ashabenford.
Peldan's Helm, yes, sounds as a great place. One PC characters (uthgardt barbarian) wanted to do some hunting there ... but he died in Teshendale, fighting zhentilars ... but that is another story and post. However, how many temples do you think Mistledale can support? And Helm, although I like that god, does not the Dalesfolk have enough gods? In my campaign, Helm was a god that was venerated in the past, but not in modern days, at least to have own temples. Thus, there are no active temples, but ruins of temples of Helm can be found in Daggerdale and Shadowdale. Furthermore, whenever I put a Helm cleric (PC/NPC) in the campaign, then that fellow comes from Cormyr ... a missioner. Now, I like Cormyr, but I have managed make my players and Dalesfolks hate Cormyr  |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 01:15:06
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quote:
Originally posted by webmanus
although I like that god, does not the Dalesfolk have enough gods? In my campaign, Helm was a god that was venerated in the past, but not in modern days, at least to have own temples. Thus, there are no active temples, but ruins of temples of Helm can be found in Daggerdale and Shadowdale.
As for as deities go, I can certainly understand the concern of too many being about, espcially if using a monothiest approuch (something the rules design support) as oposed to polytheism (such as the Norse or other older religions).
As far as your campaign, certainly I can see fewer looking toward him and reaching a point in time when there is no one to maintain temples. What might be interesting would be if Helm still watches over them to any degree at all. They could be a place of some power even now. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 01:22:36
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I have to laugh at that one. My player's cleric of Helm is from Cormyr!
His cleric was serving at the shrine to Helm in Arabel, but during the war the shrine was sacked and burned, and after the war the cleric and the dwarf moved on to the Dalelands.
The cleric has talked to Haresk Malorn about his proposed temple, and Haresk said that when he has the funds for it (which will be a while) he will need to bring it up to the whole council. He can bring in outsiders, but only refugees from Cormyr, not Sembians or Moon Sea natives.
I think you are right about Dalesmen being wary of Cormyr, but I think they may have softened a bit since the war. Cormyr isn't the large strong power that left a garrison in Scardale and annexed Tilverton, they are more like a battered respected rival (rather than an enemy).
So let me know what your take is, and thanks for the discussion! |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2005 : 09:09:35
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After some reading in Races of Faerűn and the The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, I just have to write the following in my homepage:
"In Mistledale lives around 970 Tethyrians. Most of them live isolated in farmsteads, thorps, and hamlets in western and central Mistledale. Few of them have settled down in large numbers in eastern Mistledale to form isolated communities. Most of the Tethyrians in Mistledale are descendants from refugees and settlers from the Western Heartlands.
They venerate the gods of the Dalesfolk, specially Lathander and Oghma, but they venerate also gods from the west such as Deneir and Helm. Kelemvor, however, is most unheard of and does not receive many prayers."
With this written, I can assume that those folks (the ethnic group Tethyrians) would be very happy of having a temple of Helm. However, from my point of view, Helm is not a god of the Dalesfolk. I mean, there are so many gods to venerate, and pray to, that I think Dalesfolk could pray to Chauntea, Lathander, Mielikki, Silvanus, Tempus, and the Triad even in Helm business, that is, for protection. Thus, I think that the Council of Six would have nothing against a person, or community, spending their own money building a temple. However, if the money needed to raise a temple to a foreigner god, has to come from the coffins of Mistledale, then I think that most Mistrans (and then Chondathan Mistrans) would prefer Lathander.
And about "hating" Cormyrians ... Years ago, the adventuring party was in Ashabenford, together with one of lord Mourngrym's men-at-arms, Fessel, in the Ashabenford Arms (I think). There they overheard two travelling Coryrians talk about "Shadowdale as beeing a Cormyrian baron's land", then, the now drunk Fessel draw his blade and was going to attack the "insolent" and "ignorant" Cormyrians
Edited original post: - Corrected some misspellings.
- Changed first sentence to "After some reading in Races of Faerűn and the The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, I ..."
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Edited by - webmanus on 06 May 2005 10:02:07 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 04:08:59
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Its interesting, because in a lot of ways the player knows it will be an uphill climb, and unlike other players I have had, he isn't assuming that the masses will flock to him once the temple is done, which is why he is asking for permission to bring in faithful to help get it started.
He is also thinking of making a provisioning outpost for trips into the Beastlands, and training for local warriors (provided in part by his dwarven partner). The first part, the provisioning, he is assuming might rankle the locals in Peldan's Helm.
Thanks for bringing up that passage in Races of Faerun. I had forgotten about that. |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 07:20:30
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Please note, that what I wrote, I just a mix of canon and noncanon; it is my view of Mistledale.
I assume that, if the PC cleric has high ability scores in Int, Wis, and Cha, then he should be a good leader, or have the potential, and have it easy to "flock masses", at least in the long run. However, if he is just an average person, then people will be interested in continuing their life as they have done, though they could be happy to recieve the additional help of a cleric.
If you would also go for the idea of having many Tethyrians in western Mistledale, then, as I wrote, they should be happy of having a cleric in their community, if they have been laking the oranized form of worship to gos as Helm. Those Tethyrians could be from the Western Heartlands, but, it could also be that Peldan (the founder, see Volo's Guide to the Dalelands) was a Tethyrian Cormyrian, and not a Chondathan Cormyrian, and that many, or some, of the inhabitants of Peldan's Helm are descendants of Tethyrians from Cormyr.
So, having high ability scores and letting, for example, Peldan's Helm be populated by ethnic Tethyrians, could make the uphill climb smoother, form my point of view.
Ehem ... could you elaborate the following?
"He is also thinking of making a provisioning outpost for trips into the Beastlands, and training for local warriors (provided in part by his dwarven partner). The first part, the provisioning, he is assuming might rankle the locals in Peldan's Helm."
I have difficult in understanding  What could be wrong in setting up outposts? At least, the buildings? Provisioning ... for having food stored? Thus, when travelling to the Beastlands, they would go from outpost to outpost. And, the training of locals, thus it mean that the cleric would like to train, for example, Commoners and Warriors from Peldan's Helms? If it is informal, what could be the problem? However, the Mistledale militia, beeing the formal army, has its own training ... problems there? Now, with high Charisma, the cleric could convince some folks to spend some time in other tasks ... tasks such as training ... but, what is the goal and purpose ... off all that training?
Some questions ... When a person wants to build a temple, in Mistledale, must he ask for the permission from the local goverment? How about the local community, such as Peldan's Helm? The more bureaucratic a society, the more paperwork. Thus, I would like to have your view in how things are done in Mistledale.
Maybe, I am "putting my nose too deep" in your campaign. Please forgive me, if you think so. I am just curious. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2005 : 07:42:51
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More published info for Mistledale can be found in Skip Williams Dungeon module Woe to Mistledale.
As for changes, a while ago one of the guys on the WOTC forum said he gave Noristuor the Tielfling Wizard Toreete Syndrome which was why the town folk dont like him. I used this idea in my own campaign, the looks on my players faces where priceless! My only regret was that I didnt have Ed Greenwoods "Swear words of Faerun" response when I ran Noristuor. The only other change I made was to make Noristuor a Conjuror instead of a straight wizard (it plays up his Tiefling heritage better) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 03:26:21
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As to the training, the temple would actually raise money by training commoners as caravan guards and body guards, setting up an employment agency of sorts for such services.
As to the provisioning, the main objection would come from the proprietors of The Man with Fire in His Hands, the local inn, which might suffer from the competition.
As an aside, I really don't see Mistledale as that "uptight" about buildings and the like. Part of why the cleric is being so cautious is that he is also courting Heresk's daughter, and thus is trying to keep from doing anything wrong.
Of course when the brother of a certain catfolk (my replacement for the tabaxi) dancer at the Velvet Veil starts to cause trouble, especially when he whispers to Haresk about a visit that a certain young Helmite made to said establishment . . . well things might get interesting, lol. |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 10:19:36
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Dargoth, could you summarize the content of Woe to Mistledale? Is it Dungeon Magazine that you mean? Which number?
Noristuor ... Noristuor ... Who is that fellow? |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 10:21:34
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| Ok, how about the dwarves of Mistledale ... there are c 1,400 dwarves living is Mistledale. How many of them would be clanless, and how many would have clan associations? Any clan from Tethyamar here? Clan from other kingdoms? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 12:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by webmanus
Dargoth, could you summarize the content of Woe to Mistledale? Is it Dungeon Magazine that you mean? Which number?
It's in Dungeon #100, below is a summary from the publisher:
quote:
“Woe to Mistledale”
By Skip Williams
This sequel to issue #87's "Raiders of Galath's Roost" takes the PCs back to the Dales region of the Forgotten Realms. Someone--whether drow, the local elves, or another force entirely--has taken up residence in the forests near Mistledale, disrupting trade along the Moonsea Ride and slaughtering merchants and taking their goods. The PCs must embark on a convoluted investigation to uncover the mystery behind the attacks. A D&D Forgotten Realms adventure for four 8th-level PCs
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 13:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by webmanus
Ok, how about the dwarves of Mistledale ... there are c 1,400 dwarves living is Mistledale. How many of them would be clanless, and how many would have clan associations? Any clan from Tethyamar here? Clan from other kingdoms?
The Dwarves likely all live in a town called Glen which is part of Mistledale
Glen has 2 secrets
1) It has a route into the Underdark beneath the Dalelands
2) You can buy Dragon Eggs there
Noristuor is a Tiefling Wizard living inside Ashbenford
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 15:31:08
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Glen, according to the FRCS has 701 inhabitants. That lives c 700 dwarves to distribute ...
Now, the Glen dwarves could all be clanless, they could all (or most of them) be members of a Tethyamar clan, members of a Myth Drannor clan, members of a Dwarves Deep clan, or ..?
OK, now, I found Noristuor.
Dungeon Magazine, I have issue #87's with "Raiders of Galath's Roost", but not issue #100. Issue #87 a bit of lore for Mistledale, but, not much. How much could issue #100 have? More, less? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 18:05:52
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| I don't know if I am right about this, but given the concentration and the proximity, I have treated the dwarves in Glen as associated with the clans from Myth Drannor, that the refugees just managed to settle there. |
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Imrahil
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 19:36:23
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First let me state that my mistledale campaign is starting in 1356 DR so my players can be in the dale during Lashan's attack, so the population of the entire dale for me is still less than 10,000 with Ashabenford under 500.
I divided the the dale into four sections also, but I based mine on geographical features. Plow Creek seperates western "beast country" from the rest of the dale. I envisioned the farmers in this area to live in fortified freeholds. I actually used "The Siege of Kratys Freehold" from Dungeon #33 as my template for farms in the area. Also, despite the proximity of this part of the dale to Cormyr, feelings here are generally positive toward Cormyr; I imagine that many of the folk are actually from Cormyr (like the long-dead Peldan) or have close connections with Cormyr. Tarran Kratys in my campaign actually was a retired purple dragon and his wife, Myrs, was a retired war wizard. To cement this connection, his daughter, Llewelyn, is currently a Rider of Mistledale.
The West-Central dale runs from Plow Creek to the Ashaba. The proximity of two major temples makes this a more settled region. I viewed this area as a being divided into clusters of farms located around centralized meeting areas. For example, one cluster of farms may be centered on rural tavern while another cluster of farms may be centered on a general store of some type, etc.
The East-Central dale runs from the Ashaba to Sword Creek. I see this area as the base of power. The wealthiest land-owners live in this area with larger more prosperious farms. I also added a wetlands in this area (the mistledale marsh), that is a low-lying area on the Ashaba. Living on the Mississippi, this small wetlands area was inspired by the region I live in. Plus, I like the idea of an area where a small group of individualists make their own living from the bounty of the marsh.
The last area runs from Sword Creek to the Eastern edge of the dale. I see this as a more independent area; this area's proximity to Myth Drannor and the dangerous cities of the Moonsea makes these folks not as friendly and trusting as others in the dale. I imagine the dwarves of Glen are good citizens of the dale but consider themselves dual citizens of Mistledale and the underdark to which they are connected thus making them more autonomous than other communities in Mistledale. |
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 00:58:29
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| Woe to Mistledale has some events in the Town (including a description of one of the Taverns) a Logging encampment in the forest and a fair bit of detail on the Dale Compact that th humans signed with the elves |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 01:46:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Woe to Mistledale has some events in the Town (including a description of one of the Taverns) a Logging encampment in the forest and a fair bit of detail on the Dale Compact that th humans signed with the elves
Dargoth,
Do you have Dungeon #100 which features “Woe to Mistledale?" If so, what was the force disrputing the trade as mentioned in the summary I posted? |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 15 May 2005 01:46:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 02:38:23
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As I recall, it was the Zhentarim who were responsible for the disruption of trade in the area. It was the Black Network's wish to bring down Ashabenford as the one important trade route to the Moonsea by attacking the passing caravans.
Bring down... or control rather...  .
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 03:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
As I recall, it was the Zhentarim who were responsible for the disruption of trade in the area. It was the Black Network's wish to bring down Ashabenford as the one important trade route to the Moonsea by attacking the passing caravans.
Bring down... or control rather... .
Ah, not as interesting as I thought it would be. Thanks. |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2005 : 04:27:31
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quote:
Originally posted by webmanus
But, how about your Mistledale? How have you elaborated your Mistledale?
I'm not sure how much relevance it has to either the matters at hand or even the 14th century Dale Reckoning, but I thought it was worth noting that the swathe of land claimed by Misteldale was created by a falling meteor. Prior to the meteors fall the legendary elfin kingdom of Uvaeren, aka the Lorelands, occupied this area.
I'd imagine that by-far the majourity of Uvaeren's buildings were destroyed by the meteor. However, subterranean remnants might very well rest beneath the surface. In fact, the increasing Drow prescence that followed Uvaeren's fall would seem to vouchesafe the matter.
I've also thrown old gates (leading to pocket dimensions)into, say, a barely intact archway that still stands amidst overgrown ruins. One such gate was found in the remains of an elfin temple and led to an exactly replica of the temples worship hall.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Elaborating Mistledale
