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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 21:27:21
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Poll Question:
How much do you care about the accuracy of character stat blocks in Forgotten Realms sourcebooks, for instance characters having the correct number of skill points, or meeting all the prerequisites of a prestige class?
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Edited by - Faraer on 02 Apr 2005 21:29:40
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 21:32:31
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| For some reason I can't vote. But I don't care for accurate stat blocks, except when a npc, for some reason, changes level, race, gender, or all three. Usually these are errors and I've found many in TSR's sourcebooks. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 21:35:46
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| I do care. I just feel it's sloppy for the game designers to make a mess of stat blocks. I rarely use a published stat block as is, but why bother printing them up it they're not going to be correct? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36831 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 22:08:29
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| I think they should go back to the stat blocks a lot of NPCs in 2E had: Name, race, gender, class and level, and any scores of 16 or higher. That's all I need, unless an NPC is integral to an adventure -- and even then, I can wing it, if I need to. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 01:29:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
I do care. I just feel it's sloppy for the game designers to make a mess of stat blocks. I rarely use a published stat block as is, but why bother printing them up it they're not going to be correct?
I picked somewhat and Mareka summed up the reasons I made the choice in the poll. I'm much more concerned if errors are made in the background/personality write ups for a character. That being said, I do think since it is a professional publication, errors in stat blocks shouldn't be found that often. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6673 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 01:59:22
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I'm in the somewhat category also. If it's an NPC that the player characters are going to 'fight', then yes, they should have a full (and correct) stat block.
That said, for some of the 'powerful' NPCs of the Realms, I think that they should all have the one-line stat block, allowing individual DMs to feat and skill them out to suit their own purposes.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 06:26:06
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| I see "Not Much," is leading the way. For those scribes that voted in that manner, is it you don't care that much if there are errors? Or would it be more accurate that you don't care that much at all when it comes to stat blocks be they error filled or entirely spot free? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36831 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 16:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I see "Not Much," is leading the way. For those scribes that voted in that manner, is it you don't care that much if there are errors? Or would it be more accurate that you don't care that much at all when it comes to stat blocks be they error filled or entirely spot free?
Granted, I don't DM... But I simply don't pay attention to stat blocks. I just skip right past them.
Remember the "Alustriel's Consort" series of Realmslore articles? Right after they published the guy's stats, everyone attacked it for its inaccuracy. I hadn't even noticed.
I'll grant that if they're going to waste space on a stat block, then they should make sure it matches the character's backstory and concept. But I'm not going to lose sleep over it if the stat's don't match, because I won't know until someone else points it out.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: anyone can come up with numbers. That's easy. Character concept and backstory, that's the part that's difficult, and that's the part I'm interested in. |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 16:12:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I see "Not Much," is leading the way. For those scribes that voted in that manner, is it you don't care that much if there are errors? Or would it be more accurate that you don't care that much at all when it comes to stat blocks be they error filled or entirely spot free?
I voted for "Not Much" because I don't use the stat blocks anyway. I guess I really have two answers though. If it's in a published module or adventure than they should be accurate. But if it's Elminster's stats thrown into the campaign setting than I really don't care at all.
Like others have said, I would prefer the one line stat entry.
The last published adventure I ran was City of the Spider Queen and I ended up re-statting any significant NPC anyway so I guess my votes would be:
In adventures = Somewhat
In sourcebooks = Not much
As others have mentioned, I feel the backstory is much more important. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 17:20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Character concept and backstory, that's the part that's difficult, and that's the part I'm interested in.
I think the new format for Prestige Classes in LEOF might be a sign that WOTC is starting to understand some scribes' strong interest in character concept and backstory. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36831 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 17:54:05
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Character concept and backstory, that's the part that's difficult, and that's the part I'm interested in.
I think the new format for Prestige Classes in LEOF might be a sign that WOTC is starting to understand some scribes' strong interest in character concept and backstory.
I certainly hope so... |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 18:27:41
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I responded «somewhat» because i use DM Genie at the gaming table and when i enter an NPC in the program, i appreciate the fact that there are no errors in it. The other reason is simply one of professionalism i'd say.
If the NPC is not there to be involved in any kind of combat, i don't care about stat blocks, but as others have stated, i need a good background of the NPCs. Those are always appreciated when well developped.
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 18:33:45
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Somewhat. Drooling over Drizzt's stats gives me some comfort, and could gives me ideas on characters and npc design. In adventures stats are a must, unless it is possible to refer to the MM stats.
In sourcebooks I prefer the one-liners, unless we're talking about ready-to-use villains or mini-adventures. |
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Kiralari
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 01:54:52
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I fell into the "somewhat" category unfortunately. It really depends on why I'm looking and what it's in.
If it's in a published book, I think, professionally, they should care and know enough to at least get it right. I mean, these people that write our books and rules should damn well know how they work well enough to stat block a character!
Now, when I'm DMing or something, I really just skip past the stat black area and flesh out the npc how I need them. It's really just more productive and much more correct that way. |
Always be prepared. If it rains, be prepared. If a bear chases you, be prepared. If you get attacked by drunken Hoosiers, be prepared.
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 02:17:44
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Fred the Miserable, Wiz 12/Ftr 2. Unique possessions: Glass eyeball of See invisibility, Wooden Leg of Speed, hand replacement hook +2, keen. Wis: 6, Dex 17.
*insert lots of text as to who Fred is, and why he is important, who his contacts are, who he works for, who he hates, etc etc.*
The above is all the stat block I will ever need. ^_^
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36831 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 05:33:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Fred the Miserable, Wiz 12/Ftr 2. Unique possessions: Glass eyeball of See invisibility, Wooden Leg of Speed, hand replacement hook +2, keen. Wis: 6, Dex 17.
*insert lots of text as to who Fred is, and why he is important, who his contacts are, who he works for, who he hates, etc etc.*
The above is all the stat block I will ever need. ^_^
Works for me. 
Really, that's what I'm used to. I came to the Realms right when the change to 2E was being made, and I got used to seeing the abbreviated stat blocks. We did sometimes get the full one, but usually, the sourcebooks had the brief ones.
Part of why I prefer the brief ones is because that makes it easier for you to make the character into who you need them to be. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 05:46:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Works for me.
Really, that's what I'm used to. I came to the Realms right when the change to 2E was being made, and I got used to seeing the abbreviated stat blocks. We did sometimes get the full one, but usually, the sourcebooks had the brief ones.
Part of why I prefer the brief ones is because that makes it easier for you to make the character into who you need them to be.
Exactly.
To take matters further, a small line drawing of the character would be far more usefull to me than knowing they have Knowledge (earwax) +11. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 06:02:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Part of why I prefer the brief ones is because that makes it easier for you to make the character into who you need them to be.
That's always how I've looked at it. And also why I prefer shortened stat blocks.
In fact, I've got plenty of notepads full of one-line stat blocks of various PCs and NPCs that can be used to generate immediate characters within a few minutes.
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 06:47:09
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| To me, stat blocks should be as accurate as possible, for gaming purposes and because there has been way too many occasions where I had to pull out the stats of an NPC to argue with people about "X is better than Y". Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 07:47:54
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If I need to make prolonged use of published NPC's, I make up my own stats. Why? Because then the players can't know them
I mean, honestly... What player DOESN'T know that trolls are vulnerable to fire? Same applies to official npc's on some scale... "Oh, its NPC Xyz the Magnificent - cast Dominate Person, he has a weak will save." |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 10:56:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I see "Not Much," is leading the way. For those scribes that voted in that manner, is it you don't care that much if there are errors? Or would it be more accurate that you don't care that much at all when it comes to stat blocks be they error filled or entirely spot free?
Good point you got there. I voted 'not much', but in fact I don't care about stat blocks at all. What I want to know about a NPC is what he does and why he does it. So character background is much more important to me. |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
Edited by - Rudar Dimble on 28 Apr 2005 10:56:41 |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 10:58:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
If I need to make prolonged use of published NPC's, I make up my own stats. Why? Because then the players can't know them
I mean, honestly... What player DOESN'T know that trolls are vulnerable to fire? Same applies to official npc's on some scale... "Oh, its NPC Xyz the Magnificent - cast Dominate Person, he has a weak will save."
It's just a matter of good role-playing whether the players use this meta-game information. |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36831 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 11:29:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
What I want to know about a NPC is what he does and why he does it. So character background is much more important to me.
Thank you! As I've said more than once before (and will likely say again in the future): anyone can come up with numbers. The concept is the part that interests me. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 11:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
To take matters further, a small line drawing of the character would be far more usefull to me than knowing they have Knowledge (earwax) +11.
One of the last D20 tomes I purchased, well over a year ago, had a small B&W sketch at the start of each NPC's description. I liked that style and wouldn't mind seeing something like that in Realms products. |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 12:01:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
[snip] I voted 'not much', but in fact I don't care about stat blocks at all. What I want to know about a NPC is what he does and why he does it. So character background is much more important to me.
i see it like Rudar: "stats are nothing", so "not at all" was my first impulse. but then again, i care at least for some stats:
- basic abilities (strength, dexterity, intelligence, etc...) because they tell me some basic and very important facts about the npc: does (s)he has bulging muscles, is (s)he clever, wise, etc. that´s important for roleplaying, not for ability-checks (something i mostly like to decide for myself instead of letting the dice do decide where the story goes).
- known (and memorised) spells, because they define the means available to a npc. the same goes for magic items and other important equipment.
- skills & proficiencies: it´s important to know what someone is able to do, or what (s)he does for a living. i don´t need an exact (i.e. numeric) value for proficiencies though. a rough classification like "novice, learned, expert, master, etc..." would be nice though.
- tactics: in 3.x, there are often descriptions about what a npc would do in combat. even more important to me would be what (s)he would do in other relevant (non-combat-)situations. ...don´t know whether or not this still belongs to "stats"...
well, it looks like stat´s aren´t so irrelevant for me after all...
stats can be a good and efficient way to tell you important details about a npc, but i´d prefer a more ...well... verbal description, even if takes up more place than the stat block. what i miss most (in 3.x more than in 2e) are a characters motives and feelings, his or her soul, so to speak.
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Edited by - tauster on 28 Apr 2005 12:08:40 |
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Rudar Dimble
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2005 : 13:00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by tauster
quote:
Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
[snip] I voted 'not much', but in fact I don't care about stat blocks at all. What I want to know about a NPC is what he does and why he does it. So character background is much more important to me.
i see it like Rudar: "stats are nothing", so "not at all" was my first impulse. but then again, i care at least for some stats:
- basic abilities (strength, dexterity, intelligence, etc...) because they tell me some basic and very important facts about the npc: does (s)he has bulging muscles, is (s)he clever, wise, etc. that´s important for roleplaying, not for ability-checks (something i mostly like to decide for myself instead of letting the dice do decide where the story goes).
Those are the only stats I care about. Just a basic lay-out of the NPC's abilities. |
Jesus saves... and takes ½ damage |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 14:42:09
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| Somewhat I say. An example is that I don't mind that Drizzt sword Twinkle isn't statted the way it should, but if they gave him a level of Cleric for instance, then it would annoy me. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 16:52:23
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| well, as I don't play 3ed. they don't interest me at all. Stats didn't interest me in the earlier editions either, the short version from 2ed. (name, class, level, at times alignment and high/low scores) was more than enough for me. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 17:02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
the short version from 2ed. (name, class, level, at times alignment and high/low scores) was more than enough for me.
Ditto for me. This is all I usually want to know, which is why this is all I use on my NPC files for the Compendium. It allows me to change them around without wondering if I missed something. The large stat blocks in the current books make my eyes glaze over and so I only skim them, if I look at them at all. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36831 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 17:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
the short version from 2ed. (name, class, level, at times alignment and high/low scores) was more than enough for me.
Ditto for me. This is all I usually want to know, which is why this is all I use on my NPC files for the Compendium. It allows me to change them around without wondering if I missed something. The large stat blocks in the current books make my eyes glaze over and so I only skim them, if I look at them at all.
Ditto. I don't pay any attention to the stat blocks, and consider them a waste of space. I've seen a couple of folks suggest that the stat blocks could be web enhancements, and that's something I'd not mind -- it'd be more room for Realmslore. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 18:05:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
the short version from 2ed. (name, class, level, at times alignment and high/low scores) was more than enough for me.
Ditto for me. This is all I usually want to know, which is why this is all I use on my NPC files for the Compendium. It allows me to change them around without wondering if I missed something. The large stat blocks in the current books make my eyes glaze over and so I only skim them, if I look at them at all.
Ditto. I don't pay any attention to the stat blocks, and consider them a waste of space. I've seen a couple of folks suggest that the stat blocks could be web enhancements, and that's something I'd not mind -- it'd be more room for Realmslore.
And this dwarf here belong to your ranks: the old edition stat blocks are too much better (as Jorkens said). I think that npcs fully stated need to appear only in adventures, or when this is completely necessary.
Beyond that, it´s waste of space, that could be filled with more lore, (realmslore, in Forgotten Realms books; generic lore in core books, and so on. ) |
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Accuracy of stat blocks
