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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 01:29:19
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Im still hoping WOTC will eventually do a Manual of the Planes for the FR, but if the Novel side are willing to detail on the new cosmology then Im more than willing to let them do it.
Heres an idea for a future novel how about a Realms of Planes Anthology where each author writes a story some how related to the Planes either set their or dealing with the gods or featuring a Planetouch or Half Celestial/Fiend Hero or Villian
Failing that how about a Realms of the Faithful an anthology which features a Cleric of different deity in each story it would tie in with the Cleric series of Novels.....
Hmm maybe something to mention to Ed  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 01:38:13
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Gray,
I'm saying that the Great Tree cosmology diagram in the PGtF indicates that Realmsian cosmology contemplates alternate Prime Planes. It seems to me a reasonable assumption that the plane Faerunians call the Blood Rift touches on at least some, if not all, of those alternate Primes. It seems to me just as reasonable to assume that most if not all of those Primes have inhabitants who do not share and are not bound by the Faerunian view of the afterlife and that some of the souls of the inhabitants of those Alternate Primes could find themselves condemned at death to be petitioners in the Lower Planes, including the Blood Rift.
Edited to correct misstatement relating to claim of single Astral. |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 28 Mar 2005 02:22:42 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 01:47:22
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| I have to disagree with Paul on the Astrals. The Player's Guide makes it clear that there are many different and seperate Astral Planes connected to Toril and that each is based on the geographical locations of the pantheons. Faerun's includes the demihumans and Mulhorandi pantheons. However, Kara-tur, Maztica, and Zakhara all have different Astrals. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 28 Mar 2005 01:53:30 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 02:01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I have to disagree with Paul on the Astrals. The Player's Guide makes it clear that there are many different and seperate Astral Planes connected to Toril and that each is based on the geographical locations of the pantheons. Faerun's includes the demihumans and Mulhorandi pantheons. However, Kara-tur, Maztica, and Zakhara all have different Astrals.
Kuje,
I'm prepared to be wrong.  I read PGtF as indicating that there is one Torillian Astral, not various Astrals associated with Maztica, Kara Tur, etc. Page 139 of PGtF twice mentions "Toril's Astral Plane," as though it was a single plane (which is how I read the reference). I can't find anything in the FRCS to support a multiple Astral theory either. Can you give me a reference?
Edit: I found the refernence myself, on page 164 et seq. of the PGtF. I stand corrected. |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 28 Mar 2005 02:10:59 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 02:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
Kuje,
I'm prepared to be wrong. I read PGtF as indicating that there is one Torillian Astral, not various Astrals associated with Maztica, Kara Tur, etc. Page 139 of PGtF twice mentions "Toril's Astral Plane," as though it was a single plane (which is how I read the reference). Can you give me a reference for the multiple Astral theory?
They snuck it in the back, page 164, "Toril actually connects to several different Astral Planes, each one linking Toril's Material Plane to the outer planar homes of a different group of deities. These Astral Planes are based on the geographical areas of control held by the different pantheons. The Astral Plane kwown to characters in Faerun leads to the..."
Ao is thought to supervise the seperate Astral Planes..."
"The Astral Plane of Zakhara...."
The Spirit World described in... but only in Kara-Tur..."
The Astral Plane of Maztica..." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 28 Mar 2005 02:11:25 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 02:16:51
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
They snuck it in the back, page 164,
Hey, you were answering at the same time I was editing to acknowledge that you were correct. That is an unfortunate choice of words by the editors on page 139 though. Rather than "Toril's Astral," it would be more appropriate to write "Faerun's Astral."
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 02:19:57
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
Hey, you were answering at the same time I was editing to acknowledge that you were correct. That is an unfortunate choice of words by the editors on page 139 though. Rather than "Toril's Astral," it would be more appropriate to write "Faerun's Astral."
Aye, I agree with you there and I hope there's no harm done with me disagreeing with you. As you might be aware, I'm very vocal when something doesn't add up. :) I don't want to chase you off and get you annoyed with me and I try not to get into heated disagreements with authors/game designers but sometimes it just happens. :)
Now I dragged this partly off topic long enough so with that semi-apology to Paul, I'll let the others get back to the sample chapter. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 28 Mar 2005 02:23:04 |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 02:41:24
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Gray,
If you're uncomfortable with the idea of petitioners in the Blood Rift coming from alternate Primes rather than Toril, consider this:
There are lots and lots of pantheons, races, cultures, etc. on Toril, all of which have different beliefs about the afterlife (i.e., they have nothing to do with the City of Judgment and the Fugue Plane). As Kuje pointed out, at least some of these have separate Astral Planes that lead to discreet sets of planes unique to that pantheon/culture/race. Others, no doubt, do not.
In any event, something other than movement to the Fugue Plane happens to all those souls at death, and the relationship of the yugoloths of the Blood Rift (and the demons of the Abyss, or devils of the Hells) to that something is, by and large, unknown. It may be true, for example, that the souls of "evil" people in a particular culture are cast into the Lower Planes at death, some to the Abyss, some to the Hells, some to the Barrens and Blood Rift, where they are collected by fiends.
Just food for thought.
I'm getting a little far afield of my areas of expertise. Understand that the designers ultimately speak with authority on this issue. I'm just offering my view of how things might work, based on my reading of the materials. |
Edited by - PaulSKemp on 28 Mar 2005 02:41:55 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 04:06:54
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I want to thank you Paul for taking the time to think on and try and reconcile the mystery for me. I agree it's a stumper.
Your last post rings true for me. The observed phenomenon is that there are larvae in the Blood Rift, and even though there are no gods or divine realms to bring them there, the souls had to have come from somewhere.
Since it is the FR cosmology, my preference is that the souls come from the Realms in some fashion, I just don't understand yet the mechanism that brings the larvae to the Blood Rift. However, I am willing to live with whatever answer the designers come up with if they ever address this issue. I am even willing to let it remain an intriguing mystery for now.
Thanks again for being so cool about it. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 05:03:36
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I'll admit, I'm still partial to the 'core' / Planescape continuity that had the yugoloths as predating both the Tanar'ri and Baatezu and, rather than enlarging their race through larvae/petitioners they emerged from the raw essence of their native planes as something a bit more raw and closely connected to a single alignment/ethos than their younger CE and LE counterparts/puppets.
But then we just get into the Baernaloth creation myths and that's neither here nor there, though there's no reason to think that it still wouldn't apply despite the retconning of FR out of the Great Wheel.
You could also spin a tale about the fiends having all migrated from elsewhere/another cosmology originally and being different from their original race in any way due to the influence of the migration. The 'loths tended to utterly reflect the nature of their home plane(s) and so if the substance of the plane, or the substance of the raw essence of evil were to change, they would reflect it in their nature. Though I can see the absolute revulsion on the face of a Yugoloth from the Gray Waste that happened to enter the FR unique planes by way of Sigil (given that Sigil of the Great Wheel still directly connects to FR). |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 13:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
But then we just get into the Baernaloth creation myths and that's neither here nor there, though there's no reason to think that it still wouldn't apply despite the retconning of FR out of the Great Wheel.
Indeed. I've often wondered what the 3e FR interpretation for the baern would be like...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 20:19:21
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I just finished the sample chapter and I have to say that I am utterly impressed. I am even more excited about the conclusion to this epic than I was before. Interestingly enough, Vhaerun's comments in the opening chapter seem to clarify a few things about what role it is exactly that the Yor'thae play. It also raises some questions. Vhaerun said that any of three drow could be the Yor'thae, Hallisstra, Danifae, or Quenthel. So what exactly does that mean about Halisstra? Is she still a pawn of Lolth despite being a follower of Eilistraee or was Vhaerun simply mistaken. I look forward to the answer to that mystery as I have always thought Halisstra's "mission" was a little bit of a reach.
I really hope this book is out by no later than mid April as I don't know if I can wait much longer than that. One thing I wanted to ask as a sort of teaser if Mr. Kemp feels so inclined is does Ryld play any role in the final book or have we seen the last of the Weapons Master. Obviously I don't want any major plot elements given away, but I have been wondering if Ryld is done now or if he has a final part to play. Thanks for the sample Chapter Paul and I can't wait to get the book. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 20:53:37
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Spoiler Note for the series and those who haven't read the sample chapter yet
quote:
Originally posted by Freakboy
Vhaerun said that any of three drow could be the Yor'thae, Hallisstra, Danifae, or Quenthel. So what exactly does that mean about Halisstra? Is she still a pawn of Lolth despite being a follower of Eilistraee or was Vhaerun simply mistaken.
Vhaeraun being mistaken? Never happen.
I think it shows that for some reason, the God feels Halisstra is still vulnerable to being turned back to Lolth. Why this would happen is a subject for debate.
And it would be interesting if the Yor'thae ends up being none of those listed.
And as for who the Yor'thae might be....wasn't there once a prophecy about everyone in the party betraying the mission save for one. Obviously Halisstra has betrayed the group. But, who else has so far? And who has remained true?
quote:
I look forward to the answer to that mystery as I have always thought Halisstra's "mission" was a little bit of a reach.
Killing Lolth? Never going to happen. I'll be damn shocked if WOTC and R.A. Salvatore allow the Spider Queen to perish. In my opinion, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than this event taking place in Book VI.
quote:
One thing I wanted to ask as a sort of teaser if Mr. Kemp feels so inclined is does Ryld play any role in the final book or have we seen the last of the Weapons Master. Obviously I don't want any major plot elements given away, but I have been wondering if Ryld is done now or if he has a final part to play. Thanks for the sample Chapter Paul and I can't wait to get the book.
I always love how an author becomes Mr. Kemp or Mr./Mrs. XXXX whenever a reader wishes unrevealed information. Any other time it's, "Thanks for the sample chapter Paul!" 
And I take it you are a Ryld fan who took his loss hard?
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2005 : 21:39:16
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| Lesse...Pharaun and Quenthel have double crossed one another...though, in Pharaun's case that's debateable...Ryld and Halisstra betrayed the others, Danifae commits betrayal like noone's business, Jeggred's betrayed Quenthel and Ryld...Valas? If he didn't turn back, he's remained fully loyal...and Pharaun, like I said...it's not for sure he comitted any betrayals..I have the feeling the little aboleth thing was his master plan all along |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 09:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Indeed. I've often wondered what the 3e FR interpretation for the baern would be like...
This is really off topic at this point, but The Sage mentioned it and it got me thinking: http://www.planewalker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7379#7379 My interpretation of that idea, about a page worth of fiction or so. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2005 : 14:28:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Indeed. I've often wondered what the 3e FR interpretation for the baern would be like...
This is really off topic at this point, but The Sage mentioned it and it got me thinking: http://www.planewalker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7379#7379 My interpretation of that idea, about a page worth of fiction or so.
An interesting interpretation  .
I'll leave further discussion for PW.com, in this linked thread.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 29 Mar 2005 14:29:17 |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 10:31:21
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Thank you for the sample chapter Paul.
Some guys and me can`t wait to read the whole book and get the answers to many questions.
Go on with your great work and never stop writing. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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Weiser_Cain
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 07:29:46
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| Hey paul, who do I scream at to get an annotated version of this? |
I'm always the Wizard! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 08:16:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Hey paul, who do I scream at to get an annotated version of this?
Annotated version of what? |
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Weiser_Cain
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 09:15:41
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| Resurrection (WotSQ VI) and idealy the rest of the series. |
I'm always the Wizard! |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 15:14:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Resurrection (WotSQ VI) and idealy the rest of the series.
Weiser_Cain, do you mean a summary? An annotation would be quite an undertaking, since it would consist of the entirety of each book along with notes and cross-references relating to the text (see Weis and Hickman's Annotated Dragonlance Chronicles, for an example).
In any event, I'm not aware of any summaries (or annotations) of WotSQ. I'll bet a fan has put together a summary somewhere, though.
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 15:15:57
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I understand from WotC that "Resurrection" will be in stores and available starting next week (i.e., the week of April 4). FYI. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 17:07:48
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
I understand from WotC that "Resurrection" will be in stores and available starting next week (i.e., the week of April 4). FYI.
From your lips to vendors' ears. |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 18:11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
I understand from WotC that "Resurrection" will be in stores and available starting next week (i.e., the week of April 4). FYI.
That's great, but OMG, I've got a lot of reading to do. I'm only halfway through Insurrection! |
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Weiser_Cain
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 19:38:48
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| No I was asking about an annotation. I was actually thinking of the annotated Dragonlance book when I asked this question. I may be getting ahead of myself though as I don't know if I'll like what you've done to my spider queen*crosses fingers*... |
I'm always the Wizard! |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2005 : 22:43:57
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
I understand from WotC that "Resurrection" will be in stores and available starting next week (i.e., the week of April 4). FYI.
Darn you Paul, there goes my money :)
Cannot wait to read it. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Sorenna_Melruth
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 21:34:34
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Oh!
One of my favorite Deities right next to Mask!
I see I will be needing to hit the store here soon as well. Excellent chapter and I can't wait for the rest. |
History is written by those who survive such terriable times,and every person is a hero, and every person is a villan it depends on who's telling the tale. |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2005 : 21:28:56
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
I understand from WotC that "Resurrection" will be in stores and available starting next week (i.e., the week of April 4). FYI.
Since I already went out on a limb with this, I figured I might as well offer the most current information. I have heard from my editor that "Resurrection" will ship today or tomorrow, which means that it will find its way into stores next week. Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience.
Paul |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2005 : 22:10:09
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YAY!
Thanks Paul !!!
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We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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Resurrection (WotSQ VI) Sample Chapter
