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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 03:25:59
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Hello everyone!
First befroe i say anything else i want to mention I know there has been some other thread on waht happens after death but there were so many diffrent opinions materila from diferent editions and just plain misunderstanding. So my qwestions are waht happens when you die. I remember it says in the 3e FRCS you go to the fugue plane wher you wait and your gods followers come and take you(unless your a faithless or a false wich i understand all about) And you serve your deity. Is this right? And if it is do they just serve them doing errands and missions forever. Or do they merely live on the plane. Can you die again and finaly i heard mention of proxies somwhere what are they? waht do they have to do with being dead?
Thats all.
Thanks!
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Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 19:22:57
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The spirits of the dead are drawn to the God of the Dead, who of course lives in the center of the Fugue Plane. As a side note, when the gods were banished to Toril, the dead were not specifically drawn to the Fugue Plane and just wandered.
Once they are there, if they are faithful, they send an appropriate representitive to take them to their deities home plane. For example, good deities might send celestials, neutral deities might send inevitables or rilmani, and evil deities might even send fiends, or whatever planar creatures serve them.
What they do at their new home plane depends on the deity. They may end up travelling the planes helping others out or defending the deities portfolio.
Demons occaisionally raid the fugue plane, so the longer you are there the worse your chances that a raid my snatch you up, but generally only for the faithless or the false.
Devils are allowed to bargain with anyone on the Fugue Plane, so long as they spell out fairly truthfully what the bargain may entail (i.e. if they will become a lemure, if they will become undead, return to life, etc).
Once the dead reach the city of the Dead, their souls are judged by Kelemvor, the god of the Dead. The faithless, those who held no beleifs in life, cannot be raised from the dead and generally end up in the Wall of the Faithless, a wall the circles the city of the dead, and eventually they break down and cease to exist as the individual that they were. The False are judged according to their crimes in life and may be tortured, may have a boring, sedintary life inside the City of Judgement, or whatever else Kelemvor comes up with.
The False may be raised, but only with a wish or miracle spell and the sponsorship of a god that is willing to speak with them (the later condition of which is completely up to the god in question). |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 19:24:42
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I almost forgot, you may want to look up on the Manual of the Planes the entry on Petitioner, which would cover a faithful servant taken to their new home plane, and even the Book of Exalted deeds for the entry on saints.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 19:52:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I almost forgot, you may want to look up on the Manual of the Planes the entry on Petitioner, which would cover a faithful servant taken to their new home plane, and even the Book of Exalted deeds for the entry on saints.
FR's specific petitioner's are in the Player's Guide also. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 22:05:12
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I find it fascinating that being "False" and untrue to a specific religion gets a more lenient punishment than being honest with oneself and not worshiping a god. And before someone says, "But everyone knows the gods exist!" let me say: "Yes--but knowing that they exist won't necessarily equal desire to worship them."
And before someone else says, "This is a fantasy world, those are the rules, if you don't like it too bad--" let me say: "Yes, but this forum is for stating one's opinion."
And just because you don't worship a god doesn't mean you don't have beliefs.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 02:33:55
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Alright I get it now thanks for clearing that up I heard so many opinions I was getting confused. Only one more thing so when they reach their deties they do diffrent things depending on the deity plane etc... but they arent slaves right toiling and running errands forever cause that dosent seem appealing to me. But then a good deity wouldn't do it like that would they? Also wahts a proxie and can a yopu die in the afterlife?
As for the faithless it isin't any less lenient for some of the false get horrendeus painful punishments. But wiping out someones existence does seem harsh for admitting in no beliefs ehile the false are betraying one. But where else would they go?(the faithless) |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 03:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
As for the faithless it isin't any less lenient for some of the false get horrendeus painful punishments. But wiping out someones existence does seem harsh for admitting in no beliefs ehile the false are betraying one.
Precisely.
quote:
But where else would they go?(the faithless)
I like the old rule that stated a person without a god went to the plane of their alignment. That seems more fair and simply more fitting to me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 03:42:15
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| I suppose the difference is that the Faithless at least have a hope for oblivion... It make take millenia, but their suffering will eventually end. The False, on the other hand, have no such hope. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 04:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I suppose the difference is that the Faithless at least have a hope for oblivion... It make take millenia, but their suffering will eventually end. The False, on the other hand, have no such hope.
I see your point, I just don't see why oblivion is necessary if the "faithless" can just go to the plane of their alignment and live out their afterlives there. *shrug* There are other creatures on the planes, after all, besides just deities and their petitioners. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 05:33:48
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*shrugs* Maybe it's just to emphasize how important the gods are?
I can somewhat agree with you, though. I think if a person doesn't actively ignore the gods, then they should go to the realm of whichever deity most closely matches their personality and beliefs. Maybe they'd be of lesser status there -- they weren't believers, after all -- but it would be more fair than half of eternity in the Wall. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 06:56:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*shrugs* Maybe it's just to emphasize how important the gods are?
I can somewhat agree with you, though. I think if a person doesn't actively ignore the gods, then they should go to the realm of whichever deity most closely matches their personality and beliefs. Maybe they'd be of lesser status there -- they weren't believers, after all -- but it would be more fair than half of eternity in the Wall.
I would have to agree with that as well, if only because it would allow some rather expansive roleplaying when "special" PCs eventually pass on. I would imagine it would be difficult, and yet also highly entertaining to roleplay a petitioner whose alignment isn't squarely defined, especially with the status and ranking of spirits in the Fugue Plane before they pass on.
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 13:26:10
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There are some great descriptions of the fugue plain and how death works etc in the avatars trilogy (yes 5 of them) novels.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 01:27:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*shrugs* Maybe it's just to emphasize how important the gods are?
I can somewhat agree with you, though. I think if a person doesn't actively ignore the gods, then they should go to the realm of whichever deity most closely matches their personality and beliefs. Maybe they'd be of lesser status there -- they weren't believers, after all -- but it would be more fair than half of eternity in the Wall.
I wonder, though. The common rule about being a petitioner (which I HATE but I won't get into that) is that after you die, you forget everything you knew about your previous life. Wouldn't it also follow that no matter how faithful you were in life to a specific deity, you would have forgotten about the many heights and nuances of your faith? I could be wrong, but if it is true that you forget everything, forgetting even one's faith would be a logical effect.
This is just a personal bias of mine--yes, it's a game, and yes, it's a fantasy world, but I think it's immoral for people to be punished specifically because they were non-religious when they were alive. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 11 Mar 2005 01:29:16 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 01:50:16
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That may be true, but further prodding into the nature of a "petitioner" suggests that he or she retains the mannerisms, speech, even general interests of his or her former self. As is common fact, and what you mentioned above, all the character's past memories are completely lost. It is said that for the most part, a petitioner has but a shadowy recollection of its previous life.
The one main point of petitionerhood that we must all remember though, is that at their core, all petitioners still maintain some desire to attain an ultimate union with the power of their aligned plane.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 02:09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That may be true, but further prodding into the nature of a "petitioner" suggests that he or she retains the mannerisms, speech, even general interests of his or her former self. As is common fact, and what you mentioned above, all the character's past memories are completely lost. It is said that for the most part, a petitioner has but a shadowy recollection of its previous life.
The one main point of petitionerhood that we must all remember though, is that at their core, all petitioners still maintain some desire to attain an ultimate union with the power of their aligned plane.
See, I just don't see why a non-religious character cannot attain an ultimate union with the power of their aligned plane rather than be stuck in a wall for all eternity. After all, no FR deity is all powerful--I don't see why a character who desires an ultimate union with whatever plane best fits them needs a god, necessarily, to do so. Maybe the character cares more about the plane (or at least, their beliefs and alignment) as a whole rather than any specific deity who lives on said plane.
Thanks for the infomation about petitioners, as well.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 11:16:49
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| Part of the problem with this in the current cosmology is that there are few planes that are "aligned". |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 22:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I wonder, though. The common rule about being a petitioner (which I HATE but I won't get into that) is that after you die, you forget everything you knew about your previous life. Wouldn't it also follow that no matter how faithful you were in life to a specific deity, you would have forgotten about the many heights and nuances of your faith? I could be wrong, but if it is true that you forget everything, forgetting even one's faith would be a logical effect.
This is just a personal bias of mine--yes, it's a game, and yes, it's a fantasy world, but I think it's immoral for people to be punished specifically because they were non-religious when they were alive.
The punishment for the faithless is absolutely horrific and would seem to be more fitting an end for true crimes against the gods. Perhaps for trying to steal their power (a la the Ur-priest prestige class) or flouting one's own power in the face of the gods, actively denying them as the Netherese arcanists did. But just not choosing a patron--what about young people who are unsure of an appropriate patron yet, for instance, and children certainly wouldn't know enough about the gods to be faithful. |
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Microchips
Acolyte
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 23:09:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I wonder, though. The common rule about being a petitioner (which I HATE but I won't get into that) is that after you die, you forget everything you knew about your previous life. Wouldn't it also follow that no matter how faithful you were in life to a specific deity, you would have forgotten about the many heights and nuances of your faith? I could be wrong, but if it is true that you forget everything, forgetting even one's faith would be a logical effect.
This is just a personal bias of mine--yes, it's a game, and yes, it's a fantasy world, but I think it's immoral for people to be punished specifically because they were non-religious when they were alive.
The punishment for the faithless is absolutely horrific and would seem to be more fitting an end for true crimes against the gods. Perhaps for trying to steal their power (a la the Ur-priest prestige class) or flouting one's own power in the face of the gods, actively denying them as the Netherese arcanists did. But just not choosing a patron--what about young people who are unsure of an appropriate patron yet, for instance, and children certainly wouldn't know enough about the gods to be faithful.
Speaking of which what happens to children when they die before they have a faith??
Is there a giant nursery on some far-away plane for them?? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 23:46:37
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| I asked a similar question, myself. I don't recall if I asked of Ed over here, or of Rich Baker on that forum I was wrongfully banned from. Either way, the result was that children who die before being able to select a patron deity go to the realm of their parents' patron deity. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I asked a similar question, myself. I don't recall if I asked of Ed over here, or of Rich Baker on that forum I was wrongfully banned from. Either way, the result was that children who die before being able to select a patron deity go to the realm of their parents' patron deity.
You asked it of Rich because I bugged him also for a answer. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:37:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
The punishment for the faithless is absolutely horrific and would seem to be more fitting an end for true crimes against the gods. Perhaps for trying to steal their power (a la the Ur-priest prestige class) or flouting one's own power in the face of the gods, actively denying them as the Netherese arcanists did. But just not choosing a patron--what about young people who are unsure of an appropriate patron yet, for instance, and children certainly wouldn't know enough about the gods to be faithful.
Agreed--the rules regarding the "Faithless" (as if that in itself is a bad thing, even worse than being "False") are an example of where the punishment just doesn't fit the crime--not that I consider being non-religious a crime, but even if it is in the context of the FR world, I think sticking someone in a wall for all eternity is far more egregious than simply deciding not to follow any deity.
quote:
I asked a similar question, myself. I don't recall if I asked of Ed over here, or of Rich Baker on that forum I was wrongfully banned from. Either way, the result was that children who die before being able to select a patron deity go to the realm of their parents' patron deity.
Which parent, though, if the parents had two different deities?
I'll also mention that I think the whole "patron deity" idea is rather silly in a polytheistic world. Some say that "it's because only one god can have a special place in your heart", but what is that statement based on? Who says that must be the case in a world with hundreds of gods, where no god is all powerful, or controls every important domain? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 12 Mar 2005 00:38:04 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:54:52
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I'm tired and suffering the ravages and aftereffects of a flu and cold in close proximity and thus I cannot as clearly and eloquently elaborate my thoughts on this matter, but I can at least throw out this thought of mine . . . (talk amongst yourselves . . .)
We are all assuming that souls would naturally stick around and stay cohesive after death without the gods interveneing . . . what if they naturally disapate without the body and life force to bind them, meaning that after a few thousand years they would fade just as they do in the wall of the faithless . . . would that change your view on this punishment, since in that case the wall only consolidates them in one place? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 01:05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm tired and suffering the ravages and aftereffects of a flu and cold in close proximity and thus I cannot as clearly and eloquently elaborate my thoughts on this matter, but I can at least throw out this thought of mine . . . (talk amongst yourselves . . .)
We are all assuming that souls would naturally stick around and stay cohesive after death without the gods interveneing . . . what if they naturally disapate without the body and life force to bind them, meaning that after a few thousand years they would fade just as they do in the wall of the faithless . . . would that change your view on this punishment, since in that case the wall only consolidates them in one place?
Good question, and good points, but my answer would be "no". My answer is partly because I don't recall ever reading that souls need gods to stay intact, but also because the planes themselves are powerful even through they aren't gods. Perhaps simply being on a plane can keep you intact if you are dead, and the plane you are in is appropriate for your alignment?
Also, I still believe that even 1000 years of being stuck in a wall for no reason other than being non-religious is unfair. I don't think what I'm writing here is going to have any effect on what gets published in any future sourcebooks. But like I said I'm giving my opinion about a rule that I find to be morally reprehensible, especially in comparision with the other D&D rules regarding morality. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 12 Mar 2005 01:06:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 03:49:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'll also mention that I think the whole "patron deity" idea is rather silly in a polytheistic world. Some say that "it's because only one god can have a special place in your heart", but what is that statement based on? Who says that must be the case in a world with hundreds of gods, where no god is all powerful, or controls every important domain?
Ed has pointed out more than once that everyone worships multiple deities... It's not that people only worship one god, they worship -- or at least venerate -- whichever one is appropriate to the situation.
But, there's usually one that people identify with most strongly. It's a thing of choosing as a patron deity the one that most closely matches your own morals, attitude, and mindset. So I, for example, would certainly toss gold Tymora's way, and ditto for Deneir, but Lurue would be my patron deity. I might invoke others more in my daily life, but in personality, I'm most like Lurue -- hence, she would be my patron deity, so long as I recognized this and worshipped her. |
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Mareka
Learned Scribe
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 06:43:04
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Petitioners are of the outsider type. That means they cannot be killed if they have been summoned, but they can be killed otherwise, as far as I understand. I would think they would then be absorbed into the plane itself. The Petitioner Template from (Manual of the Planes) gives some different options as to how to handle souls, which ones become petitioners, and how long a petitioner remains on the plane he materializes on.
Does anyone know what a proxie is? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 16:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ed has pointed out more than once that everyone worships multiple deities... It's not that people only worship one god, they worship -- or at least venerate -- whichever one is appropriate to the situation.
But, there's usually one that people identify with most strongly. It's a thing of choosing as a patron deity the one that most closely matches your own morals, attitude, and mindset. So I, for example, would certainly toss gold Tymora's way, and ditto for Deneir, but Lurue would be my patron deity. I might invoke others more in my daily life, but in personality, I'm most like Lurue -- hence, she would be my patron deity, so long as I recognized this and worshipped her.
Oh, I am well aware that everyone (who is religious) will worship more than one god. However, as I said I'm rather against the idea that you have to choose one above all the others. I've brought this topic up before, on different boards, and the most common rebuttal is "There can only be one god that truly means something to you, the rest you just pay lip service to." That is what I find to be silly. By worshiping more than one god, I'm *not* just talking about tossing some gold in the god's direction or paying them lip service. I mean real worship, not ersatz worship--in a polytheistic world I don't see why this would be a huge problem for either people or gods--gods who aren't all-powerful.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 18:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
Petitioners are of the outsider type. That means they cannot be killed if they have been summoned, but they can be killed otherwise, as far as I understand. I would think they would then be absorbed into the plane itself. The Petitioner Template from (Manual of the Planes) gives some different options as to how to handle souls, which ones become petitioners, and how long a petitioner remains on the plane he materializes on.
Does anyone know what a proxie is?
In 2e a proxy was a higher servent of a deity that had different granted powers depending on the deity. It was created to serve that deities needs or to defend that deity, in Sigil for instance since deities were not allowed into Sigil because the Lady of Pain, not to be confused with Loviatar, kept them out. A proxy could have been a petitioner or a mortal or even a different race depending on what the deity wanted.
Now in 3/3.5e it is almost the same but it's given part of the deities divine rank and thus its considered partly a deity. So as the rules as written it can't go into Sigil because of that divine rank.
The best write ups are 2e's On Hallowed Ground for Planescape and some of the 3/3.5e planar lore. Manual of the PLanes or Deities & Demigods. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 18:32:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Oh, I am well aware that everyone (who is religious) will worship more than one god. However, as I said I'm rather against the idea that you have to choose one above all the others. I've brought this topic up before, on different boards, and the most common rebuttal is "There can only be one god that truly means something to you, the rest you just pay lip service to." That is what I find to be silly. By worshiping more than one god, I'm *not* just talking about tossing some gold in the god's direction or paying them lip service. I mean real worship, not ersatz worship--in a polytheistic world I don't see why this would be a huge problem for either people or gods--gods who aren't all-powerful.
I agree with you 100%. Ever since the ToT's changed the world FR has become more of a semi monothestic society, at least it's afterlife has. Look through the old lore, and I'm sure you and I were part of this debate before, and you can see even clerics who worship more then 1 deity and they get spells from both!
A polytheistic world worships all the deities but in FR if someone does that they would be screwed in the afterlife. This is why I never cared for the whole wall concept. It didn't exist until the ToT's and it still makes more sense, to me, that if you follow the whole pantheon then you go to the plane of your alignments. Or you are taken by the deity that cared for you the most.
I know in my setting I've tossed the wall and the False/Faithless because it doesn't fit a polytheistic setting. But then I also kept the Wheel/Ring because that whole multiverse made more sense to me. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 19:58:47
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I agree with you 100%. Ever since the ToT's changed the world FR has become more of a semi monothestic society, at least it's afterlife has. Look through the old lore, and I'm sure you and I were part of this debate before, and you can see even clerics who worship more then 1 deity and they get spells from both!
Yes, I remember very clearly you and I being on the same side in a certain ongoing debate: we both felt that clerics should be allowed to serve more than one deity, and there are plenty of clerics in official FR lore who *do* serve more than one deity. However, the new 3E rule states that a cleric may only be a servant of his patron deity, and a character can have only one patron deity. The argument I've seen in favor of the "one god only" rule is basically what I mentioned before: "A cleric can only truly be faithful to one god above all the rest". Those who made such statements have never explained why characters must be semi-monotheistic--I wonder if it has to do with the fact that most of us posters come from and/or have been influenced by monotheistic (especially Christian) culture. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 20:14:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yes, I remember very clearly you and I being on the same side in a certain ongoing debate: we both felt that clerics should be allowed to serve more than one deity, and there are plenty of clerics in official FR lore who *do* serve more than one deity. However, the new 3E rule states that a cleric may only be a servant of his patron deity, and a character can have only one patron deity. The argument I've seen in favor of the "one god only" rule is basically what I mentioned before: "A cleric can only truly be faithful to one god above all the rest". Those who made such statements have never explained why characters must be semi-monotheistic--I wonder if it has to do with the fact that most of us posters come from and/or have been influenced by monotheistic (especially Christian) culture.
I can agree with you with the last part. Maybe that's why I have a different perspective since I'm pagan and follow a polyhedistic(sp?) religion. :) I think it's harder for people who haven't researched that type of religion to run that type of religion properly when they are used to having one god..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 12 Mar 2005 20:15:26 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 05:28:07
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I can agree with you with the last part. Maybe that's why I have a different perspective since I'm pagan and follow a polyhedistic(sp?) religion. :) I think it's harder for people who haven't researched that type of religion to run that type of religion properly when they are used to having one god.....
Interesting in that the two people I consider the best players I have ever gamed with were both raised in homes with strong traditional relgions. But, by the time I met and gamed with them, both were into non-traditional (not my phrase, so no offense intended) religions. And they are also two of the most open minded people I have ever met in my life. |
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Beyond Death
