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shoonvii
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 23:54:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by shoonvii
Hello Steven!
Just wanted to say I just finished Blackstaff Tower and now I have a glimmer of hope for the 4E Realms. I've had a Waterdeep campaign running for some 7-8 years now, so I was literally taking notes as I read!
Anyway, the noble houses feature prominently in our campaign and I was trying to get a handle on which ones were still around in 4E and which were not. Below is the list and any changes I found in the novel; any chance you could elaborate on some that weren't mentioned? Anything you can share would be appreciated!
I can't give you all the info in my notes, as some fall under NDAs and other stuff just might step on future authors' toes. Still, in terms of stuff already hinted at or mentioned in my novel, I will add or append your notes where I can.
Steven
Wow! Thanks so much Steven! I figured there may be some NDAs going on, but I was hoping that enough of this info would be minor enough that it wouldn't matter over much - looks like I was right. Thanks again, this helps a lot!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 05:20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
And the unwritten rule of comics is: If there's no body, the character's not necessarily dead.
And sometimes, even when there is a body, the character's not necessarily dead.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 11:37:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
o Thunderstaff--dead house
I must have missed the reference or hint to the Thunderstaff family. Can you elaborate or direct me to the chapter/page?
Can't elaborate at the moment, other than to say that reference may or may not have survived editing (in which case I've made an error in noting it here). Chances are the references to noble houses were made either in discussions with Lord Wands or as notes and asides when Weskur and "Blackstaff" are in the City of the Dead.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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shoonvii
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 19:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
o Thunderstaff--dead house
I must have missed the reference or hint to the Thunderstaff family. Can you elaborate or direct me to the chapter/page?
Can't elaborate at the moment, other than to say that reference may or may not have survived editing (in which case I've made an error in noting it here). Chances are the references to noble houses were made either in discussions with Lord Wands or as notes and asides when Weskur and "Blackstaff" are in the City of the Dead.
Steven
I couldn't find it on my second pass, so I think it didn't survive editing - thanks! |
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shoonvii
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 20:06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
[quote]Originally posted by shoonvii
o Anteos - dissolved; some property to House Ralnarth
o Belabranta--is now House Belbrundel
o Bladesemmer--House Gralleth controls all property/interests
o Brokengulf--Is now House Gundgulf
o Brossfeather--dead House
o Cassalanter--Very influential since Caladorn's Open Lordhip
o Eltorchul--is now House Belbrundel
o Estelmer - dissolved; some property to House Ralnarth
o Gralhund--House Gralleth controls all property/interests
o Gundwynd - dissolved; is now House Gundgulf
o Hunabar � still exists; House Ralnarth controls interests
o Kothont � still exists, mutated into Korthornt (I assume)
o Melshimber - dissolved
o Phull--now exists as House Phulbrinter
o Phylund--now exists as House Belbrundel
o Raventree � still exists; not as powerful
o Tesper � still exists
o Thann � still exists
o Thongolir � still exists
o Thorp--exists as House Kothornt (merged by marriage)
o Thunderstaff--dead house
o Ulbrinter--now exists as House Phulbrinter
o Urmbrusk
o Wands � still exists (though the House is reduced to only the two characters met in Blackstaff Tower, at least its Waterdhavian family members)
Steven
Going over this some more, I have some more questions:
1) In the situations of Houses Bladesemmer, Gundulf and Hunabar, how does the arrangement with House Gralleth work? Are there any members of these old clans still alive or are the Houses effectively defunct? I could imagine a scenario in which there are just a few members left with no business acumen and so they therefore trust another with thier business dealings, but I was just wondering if this was the case or if they are completely gone.
2)I saw you included Urmbrusk but put no note next it - did you mean to? Anything to add? :)
3) How did you (and others I presume) come up with what Houses survived and which one didn't? Did some of it have to do with names that some felt "didn't fit" or something or was it deeper than that?
The only House I didn't want to see go that did was Melshimber, as I thought the little bit of info we did have on them from the old Waterdeep boxed set was pretty inspiring (very evil and conniving, led by a powerful woman)and they featured prominently in our campaign. They would have certainly fit in today's darker Waterdeep, but I can see how after 100 years any family can diminsih or disappear outright.
Thanks again Steven! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 14:36:32
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quote:
Originally posted by shoonvii
Going over this some more, I have some more questions:
1) In the situations of Houses Bladesemmer, Gundulf and Hunabar, how does the arrangement with House Gralleth work? Are there any members of these old clans still alive or are the Houses effectively defunct? I could imagine a scenario in which there are just a few members left with no business acumen and so they therefore trust another with thier business dealings, but I was just wondering if this was the case or if they are completely gone.
2)I saw you included Urmbrusk but put no note next it - did you mean to? Anything to add? :)
3) How did you (and others I presume) come up with what Houses survived and which one didn't? Did some of it have to do with names that some felt "didn't fit" or something or was it deeper than that?
The only House I didn't want to see go that did was Melshimber, as I thought the little bit of info we did have on them from the old Waterdeep boxed set was pretty inspiring (very evil and conniving, led by a powerful woman)and they featured prominently in our campaign. They would have certainly fit in today's darker Waterdeep, but I can see how after 100 years any family can diminsih or disappear outright.
Thanks again Steven!
1) All three houses lost their noble status within Waterdeep some time during the 100 year gap, though I don't know the details of how or why or when (and those I do know fall under NDA). House Gralleth simply took over their business interests, trades, and/or properties. They may or may not be exploiting all those properties to the best of their abilities (as they may not know all of what they have, which is why Torlyn Wands can buy away whole libraries from other noble houses who don't know what they've bought when they took over a family's villa). Still, in my opinion, House Gralleth is one of the more powerful houses now in terms of money and social position in Waterdeep.
There may yet be family members with those names either in Waterdeep or outside of it, but none can claim Waterdhavian nobility, as that went defunct with the main family in the city. Think of it like Meloon Wardragon in Blackstaff Tower--he has a great name that has ties to Waterdeep's history, but his family is all in Loudwater, not Waterdeep.
2) Screw up on my part and I didn't delete them. Nothing to say about them, alas.
3) There is some thought put to which families fell and which survived (the easiest clue was which ones used/over-used magic and might have suffered major disruptions from the Spellplague and/or loss of life). Also, there are a few names that I knew had to survive. It wouldn't be Waterdeep without House Wands, even one as depleted as it is now. As for more details, I have to stick to the NDA for now and hope we can talk more later.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 15:23:05
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| Thanks Steven and thanks shoonvii for bringing the 4E Waterdhavian nobles situation together. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 20:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
well i wont send one to try and get you to sign, with a kink in its spine, it wont be worth as much later...
dragon tower??? you mean the tower of that ummm for lack of better word jerm 100 years ago that killed his master, and stole his stuff???
didnt notice
Aha. Now it's clear. When you have your new copy, let me know and I'll send along an address (to which you should send the book and a self-addressed stamped envelope with the return mail stamp on it). There's padded envelopes that are just the right size for mailing paperbacks at most office supply stores and at the post office.
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so noted, oh and i bought it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 21:53:49
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Yikes. I found this nearly 10 year old interview of me on the web today. Man it's scary how much life has changed around me in this amount of time...
http://www.defragsrealms.com/times/ftinterview.html
Pretty naive in some places, but there's still some amusing things I'd forgotten I'd ever mentioned publicly....
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:24:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Yikes. I found this nearly 10 year old interview of me on the web today. Man it's scary how much life has changed around me in this amount of time...
http://www.defragsrealms.com/times/ftinterview.html
Pretty naive in some places, but there's still some amusing things I'd forgotten I'd ever mentioned publicly....
SES
I remember this interview. Mostly because of the brief bits you mentioned about comic influences in your work.
And it's funny that I should read this now. Because I only just started re-re-re-re-reading my ancient copies of one of Jack Kirby's greatest Marvel works -- The Eternals.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 21:09:32
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No question, but a commentary...
When I have a cosmic question... one about the grander 'multiverse' that stands outside of any setting, I always turn to Marvel.
Just about ALL of their cosmic entitites exist in my version of D&D... in case anyone missed the reference to "the Tribunal" in my piece about Monkey. 
Comics (and even their lesser 'cousin', cartoons) have always greatly influenced my running of D&D, since the very beginnning. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2008 : 01:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
No question, but a commentary...
When I have a cosmic question... one about the grander 'multiverse' that stands outside of any setting, I always turn to Marvel.
Just about ALL of their cosmic entitites exist in my version of D&D... in case anyone missed the reference to "the Tribunal" in my piece about Monkey.
Heh. Indeed. One of my best SPELLJAMMER campaigns featured a brief exchange with the entities of Eternity and Infinity.
quote:
Comics (and even their lesser 'cousin', cartoons) have always greatly influenced my running of D&D, since the very beginnning.
Aye. That's the same for me as well. But then, I don't just limit myself to comics and cartoons. Practically everything I have an interest in will eventually find some small way to influence my campaigns. And that's something my players have always loved about my games. You just never know what you'll see or learn next. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2008 : 04:25:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Practically everything I have an interest in will eventually find some small way to influence my campaigns.
How did you work SageOS in? Or the ever-growing and nigh infinite To Do List? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2008 : 06:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Practically everything I have an interest in will eventually find some small way to influence my campaigns.
How did you work SageOS in? Or the ever-growing and nigh infinite To Do List?
Actually, I did manage to sneak a reference about SageOS into a MechWarrior campaign I once ran. A ComStar acolyte was sorting through some old electronic files when she noticed a folder containing an old OS designed by a "programmer from before the time of Blake."
Additionally, SageOS has also made an appearance in two of my Shadowrun campaigns. But in those adventures... it's actually a kind of artificial intelligence that functions very much like a "sage," only in the virtual world of the Matrix.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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shoonvii
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2008 : 03:02:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
quote:
Originally posted by shoonvii
Shoonvii,
would you agree to share your notes ?
I ask you that to be part of the 4E index project :here.
Thanks a lot.
Sure! I don't have a lot, but I'll paste them in that thread.
Cheers! |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 13:57:40
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I have two questions, after re-reading 'The Fall of Myth Drannor'.
It was stated that some of the Eternal Srinnala survived the Fall. I assume that they were there when it was retaken. When the Srinshee returned, what did they do? They were based on her teachings... so did dhe become the leader? Or is it that with her around, there was no need for them anymore, and they disbanded?
Second, what really killed Aravae Irithyl? Or is that NDA? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 15:27:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
I have two questions, after re-reading 'The Fall of Myth Drannor'.
It was stated that some of the Eternal Srinnala survived the Fall. I assume that they were there when it was retaken. When the Srinshee returned, what did they do? They were based on her teachings... so did dhe become the leader? Or is it that with her around, there was no need for them anymore, and they disbanded?
Second, what really killed Aravae Irithyl? Or is that NDA?
I'm afraid both of those questions' answers are blocked by NDAs at present, Menelvagor. I have my opinions, but with respect for my former coworkers at WotC who're in the drivers' seat, I'll not step on toes and muddy the waters here.
Just curious, but how do you want to handle both of those situations in your campaign?
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 23:31:32
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The killer of Aravae Irithyl was revealed to be (surprise, surprise) the Starym. In LEoF I think. The coverage and discussion on this revelation was ... brief.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 18:16:37
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Well, the campaign I'm currently planning for my players deals mostly with the retaking of Myth Drannor, and what happens afterward. One of the players is a Harper, and has been instructed to try to get the Srinshee's aid for a mission the Harpers need to do. I wanted to present him the choice of using the Eternal Srinnala to do this.
This was also the reason for the previous question regarding Syrumstar.
By the way, did the Srinshee do anyhting in the years between the fall and the re-taking of Myth Drannor? And what does she generally do? Guard the Vault of Ages? Do mysterious stuff? Research magic? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 18:52:28
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She spent a few months to a year or two helping El rebuild himself after he was sent to Hell in 1372ish. See El in Hell and also Ed's Best of Ed Greenwood anthology because she also is in one of those short stories.
quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
By the way, did the Srinshee do anyhting in the years between the fall and the re-taking of Myth Drannor? And what does she generally do? Guard the Vault of Ages? Do mysterious stuff? Research magic?
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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narnra08
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 21:27:42
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Mr Schend,
I love your books but I was wondering the name of Kelben and Laurel's Daughter? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 23:00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by narnra08
Mr Schend,
I love your books but I was wondering the name of Kelben and Laurel's Daughter?
that might be under the NDA you know. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2008 : 07:00:26
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Maybe, but you could make an educated guess ... 
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2008 : 14:42:10
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| Kelrel! (Based on the fact that in DL, the children of Characters named Usha and Palin were, predictably, Linsha and Ulin) |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2008 : 23:44:49
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 That might work - if the Realms were DL. But they're not. I'd suggest looking along familial lines.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2008 : 09:16:34
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| I don't know. I mean, it depends if you believe the whole mess about 'Khelben messed with Laeral's brain - she doesn't really love him - she hates him'. If this is true, the names would probably be one-sided - that is, chosen by only parent. If they aren't, the names are two -sided (agreed upon by both Laeral and Khelben). |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2008 : 16:32:32
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The killer of Aravae Irithyl was revealed to be (surprise, surprise) the Starym. In LEoF I think. The coverage and discussion on this revelation was ... brief.
-- George Krashos
Heh. Saying that the Starym did something awful is about as shocking as hearing "the butler did it" in a murder novel. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 13 Oct 2008 16:37:05 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 14:55:51
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quote:
Originally posted by narnra08
Mr Schend,
I love your books but I was wondering the name of Kelben and Laurel's Daughter?
Alas, the name and life/fate of Khelben and Laeral's daughter (and Krehlan's twin) is yet under an NDA at present (as sfdragon guessed), but I'll check with my editor to see if it's okay to mention her. I suspect another author may beat me to it, though.....
As for her naming, only her mother was alive by the time of her birth. While she might have talked about possibilities with Khelben, the events in BLACKSTAFF note why and how he was occupied for the last few days. Thus, the naming of the children was done by Laeral (with perhaps some input from her mother).
Steven
who'd love to share more ideas about the twins but doesn't want to step on other writers' toes and force them into telling his stories (any more than he'd want someone to do that to him) |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 14:58:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
I don't know. I mean, it depends if you believe the whole mess about 'Khelben messed with Laeral's brain - she doesn't really love him - she hates him'. If this is true, the names would probably be one-sided - that is, chosen by only parent. If they aren't, the names are two -sided (agreed upon by both Laeral and Khelben).
Where'd this theory of Khelben-mind-messing come from, Menelvagor? I know I've heard bits and pieces of similar ideas in the past, but wondered where folks got that idea....
Steven
who's a firm believer that these two truly loved each other for centuries... but then, he's a romantic at heart (with no patience for modern romances) |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Questions for Steven Schend
