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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2005 : 17:33:59
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What's the current body count?
Are they dead, dead? Or just dead, ready to be revived thru some epic act or worship dead? Where does thier remaining (if any) essence reside, some demiplane, other?
You're thoughts on this are valuable.
Edit: I figure its a good "Ask Ed" question, so I did.
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Edited by - Mystery_Man on 04 Jan 2005 17:43:15
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2005 : 23:12:50
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Hmm, we have the Seven Lost Gods (SFAIK, they've not officially been named), Bhaal, Myrkul (not dead, but no longer a god), Murdane, Mystryl (reincarnated into Mystra I, whose also dead), Iyachtu Xvim (assumably), Leira, Ibrandul, Moander, Boerem (sp?), Auppenser, Eshowe (sp?)... Those are the ones I can recall off the top of my head. You might consider Tyche dead, too, since she's no longer around as a single goddess of luck (she split into Tymora and Beshaba).
The official line is that when a god dies, their body winds up petrified and drifting thru the Astral Plane. It is possibly for them to be revived from there, but it's not easy. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 00:00:34
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| Hmm... wasn't there a Mulhorandi god that was killed by Gruumish? It was supposed to be like the first deicide in the Realms or something. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 03:00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The official line is that when a god dies, their body winds up petrified and drifting thru the Astral Plane. It is possibly for them to be revived from there, but it's not easy.
The wonderful 2e product Faiths and Avatars provides detailed information for this subject. I'd highly recommend it for those interested in the status of dead gods and/or how to bring them back. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 17:18:42
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The official line is that when a god dies, their body winds up petrified and drifting thru the Astral Plane. It is possibly for them to be revived from there, but it's not easy.
The wonderful 2e product Faiths and Avatars provides detailed information for this subject. I'd highly recommend it for those interested in the status of dead gods and/or how to bring them back.
Ah, that one I don't have. I see you can get the pdf, I'll be snagging that one today. Thanks. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 18:11:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Ah, that one I don't have. I see you can get the pdf, I'll be snagging that one today. Thanks.
You're welcome. Be sure to share what you think of that tome. And as an elf friend, I'm sure you have Demihuman Deities, yes?  |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 00:06:54
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Gruumsh killed the Mulhorand god Re in the first deicide in -1071 DR. Following this many members of the Untheric pantheon were likewise slain, including Inanna, Girru, Ki, Marduk, Nanna-Sin, Nergal, and Utu
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 01:44:31
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Also add Gilgeam to this list which in fact kind of "eradicates" the Untheric phanteon from Faerun. Well Tiamat is a part of it but she is kind of a loner anways. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 06:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Well Tiamat is a part of it but she is kind of a loner anways.
And never got her fair share in the Realms, as far as I am concerned . . . 
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 06:41:07
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| Oh, also Valigan Thirdborn, a Jhaamdathan god of Anarchy, slain by Tyr in -247 DR according to Tyr's entry in Faith's & Pantheons. |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 09:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Well Tiamat is a part of it but she is kind of a loner anways.
And never got her fair share in the Realms, as far as I am concerned . . .
Well she's doing her best now in the Faerūnian phanteon, also working closely with the Cult of the Dragon it seems.  |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 01:59:40
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Also Maanzecorian. Maybe Jazirian.
And then you have all those 2E monster gods that were culled in the 3E FRCS.
But then again, a lot of those culled gods are creeping back in to continuity. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 04:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Also Maanzecorian. Maybe Jazirian.
And then you have all those 2E monster gods that were culled in the 3E FRCS.
But then again, a lot of those culled gods are creeping back in to continuity.
I don't think I'd count the culled deities as being dead gods. After all, certain human deities didn't make the cut for Faiths & Pantheons... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 13:27:11
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Ah, that one I don't have. I see you can get the pdf, I'll be snagging that one today. Thanks.
You're welcome. Be sure to share what you think of that tome. And as an elf friend, I'm sure you have Demihuman Deities, yes?
I do have Demihuman Deites...now. Like them both, lots of good content in there. Now I have to compile all this sh..stuff with my 3E campaign into something that resembles..something.  |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Maybe Jazirian.
Wasn't Jazirian just recently mentioned as a deity of worship in one of the recent FR tomes to see publishing? I'll have to check.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:42:30
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i have two things to say
one...
dead gods, please stay DEAD!!!!!!!!!
two...
who killed amaunator? |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 15:21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
one...
dead gods, please stay DEAD!!!!!!!!!
Of course dead gods stay dead...unless there is a new FRCS coming out. In which case... |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 18:06:08
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| Amaunator simply died of neglect. People just stopped worshipping him until he no longer had the energy to maintain his realm The Keep of the Sun. And so he was forced to recede into the Astral. |
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 23:14:51
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| I don't remember this all too clearly, or even whether it occurred during the ToT, but I believe Malar killed Herne the Hunter at some point in time. I don't even remember where I read this but apparently Herne was modeled on the Master of the Hunt from Celtic mythos. Wooly, Kuje, can you confirm or deny my ailing memory? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 01:57:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ty
I don't remember this all too clearly, or even whether it occurred during the ToT, but I believe Malar killed Herne the Hunter at some point in time. I don't even remember where I read this but apparently Herne was modeled on the Master of the Hunt from Celtic mythos. Wooly, Kuje, can you confirm or deny my ailing memory?
Doesn't ring a bell, sorry. :( |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 04:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ty
I don't remember this all too clearly, or even whether it occurred during the ToT, but I believe Malar killed Herne the Hunter at some point in time. I don't even remember where I read this but apparently Herne was modeled on the Master of the Hunt from Celtic mythos. Wooly, Kuje, can you confirm or deny my ailing memory?
That's who Malar killed during the opening page of Elaine Cunningham's novel, Evermeet: Island of Elves. I don't recally any time being given as to when it took place. |
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 04:59:00
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| Thank you Sirius. I am curious as to how Herne the Hunter, a human deity of ancient Britain representing the Wild Hunt, ancestral worship, and war, came to be revered by the Orcish pantheon in Faerun. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 05:07:41
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As Eric Boyd would tell you there is no one-to-one correspondence between godly mythic events and the worldly timeline of Toril. Eric has described this notion as sort of a Mythic Theory of Relativity that destroys the concepts of "simultaneity" and "cause and effect" that relate godly events to the prime material plane. Eric even suggests that real world events can cause godly events to happen that precede the real world events.
However, in the context of the book the death of Herne at the claws of Malar occured just after Corellon put Gruumsh's eye out and right before the civil war between the Seldarine.
If the Seldarine schism occured just prior to or contemporaneously with the elven Crown Wars, then that could possibly date the death of herne betweeen -12,000 DR and as late as -10,000 DR with the Descent of the Drow.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 14:37:35
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| I recalled another one, I think. Spellbound, as I recall, mentions some former deities of the Yuirwood. One forgotten one held a time-related portfolio that Labelas Enoreth picked up. This deity's name is still around, though... It seems a certain wild-haired queen of Aglarond has taken that name, The Simbul, for herself. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 14:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ty
Thank you Sirius. I am curious as to how Herne the Hunter, a human deity of ancient Britain representing the Wild Hunt, ancestral worship, and war, came to be revered by the Orcish pantheon in Faerun.
You're welcome. You could try addressing a query to the author in her thread. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 16:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hmm, we have the Seven Lost Gods (SFAIK, they've not officially been named), Bhaal, Myrkul (not dead, but no longer a god), Murdane, Mystryl (reincarnated into Mystra I, whose also dead), Iyachtu Xvim (assumably), Leira, Ibrandul, Moander, Boerem (sp?), Auppenser, Eshowe (sp?)... Those are the ones I can recall off the top of my head. You might consider Tyche dead, too, since she's no longer around as a single goddess of luck (she split into Tymora and Beshaba).
Here's some interpretations I found on this...
I've tinkered with a listing of the possible Seven Lost Gods from time to time. Here's my latest thinking on the possibilities:-
Tyranthraxus(1) - LE, DP of magical fire, domination (Gehenna?)
Maram - unknown
Haask - unknown
Borem(2) - DP of anger
Camnod - unknown
The Dark God(3) - NE, LP of eternal darkness, cold, decay, enfeeblement, paralysis (Astral Plane/dying)
Ghaunadaur(3) - CE, LP of ooze, rebels (Plane of Ooze/Cauldron of Slime)
(1)Destroyed in the Year of Shadows, 1358 DR, by persons controlling three artifacts: the Gauntlets of Moander, the Blade of Lathander, and the Helm of Dragons.
(2)Killed by Myrkhul, Bhaal, and Bane, his heart pierced by the Jathimian Dagger, a weapon forged by a Netherese god-hating cult.
(3)Possibly an aspect of Tharizdun.
Let me note that only the first five (Tyranthraxus, Maram, Haask, Borem, and Camnod) were forced to bow before Bane when he became a greater god. My source for this is the Forgotten Realms Mailing List FAQ page.
Borem's death isn't necessarily permanent. If the dagger were removed from his heart, he could be returned to life, and Bane might lose the concept of Hatred from his portfolio.
It's interesting that many of the Lost Gods have elemental natures: Tyranthraxus is associated with fire, Ghaunadaur with ooze, and Borem with boiling mud. Camnod the Unseen might be a power representing void, while Haask, a living voice, might represent air, though I'd prefer to associate Haask with Michael Moorcock's Lizard Lord, Haaashaastaak.
It might be that you could deduce the portfolios of the others by figuring out which elements of the portfolios of the Dead Three were not passed down from Jergal or others.
I found the original references to these entities in the Pool of Radiance computer game's booklet.
quote:
Journal Entry 19: A black bound tome written in a strange halting hand. ...and settled foremost in the half of Minor Courtiers were the lesser powers: Maram of the Great Spear; Haask, Voice of Hargut; Tyranthraxus the Flamed One; Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud; and Camnod the Unseen. These too fell down and became servants of the great lord Bane.
and this
quote:
Journal Entry 36: Carefully prepared notes: Note 4: He has fooled me. All this time he has called himself Tyranthraxus the Flamed One. He exhibited his flame, and spoke of deeds attributed to Tyranthraxus. But today, while he did not know I was around, he revealed his true identity. He spoke into the great pool in his lair, I think he spoke to lord Bane himself. And he referred to himself as Maram. Maram, he of the great spear, is also a servant of Bane. Why would my leader use a false name? He hides his true identity from the world, so that they do not research his past and discover his weaknesses. What if he also hides his identity from his closest advisors, so that they also cannot know his true abilities and weaknesses. Anyone who attacked him, thinking to utilize the weaknesses of Tyranthraxus, would be destroyed by the different powers Maram of the Great Spear. My research into Tyranthraxus is now useless. I must scour my records for details concerning Maram of the Great Spear. I have much work to do.
And the second one muddies the waters considerably. And, upon googling more thoroughly, I find that my earlier quote about Maram was fan-created and thus non-canonical. So I've removed my association of Maram with the Abyss.
Also, one of the seven hills of lost gods in the novel "azure bonds" was firmly associated with Moander, according to Eric L. Boyd in the FAQ. To be canonical, we should probably replace the Dark God with Moander instead.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 22:38:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I found the original references to these entities in the Pool of Radiance computer game's booklet.
quote:
Journal Entry 36: Carefully prepared notes: Note 4: He has fooled me. All this time he has called himself Tyranthraxus the Flamed One. He exhibited his flame, and spoke of deeds attributed to Tyranthraxus. But today, while he did not know I was around, he revealed his true identity. He spoke into the great pool in his lair, I think he spoke to lord Bane himself. And he referred to himself as Maram. Maram, he of the great spear, is also a servant of Bane. Why would my leader use a false name? He hides his true identity from the world, so that they do not research his past and discover his weaknesses. What if he also hides his identity from his closest advisors, so that they also cannot know his true abilities and weaknesses. Anyone who attacked him, thinking to utilize the weaknesses of Tyranthraxus, would be destroyed by the different powers Maram of the Great Spear. My research into Tyranthraxus is now useless. I must scour my records for details concerning Maram of the Great Spear. I have much work to do.
And the second one muddies the waters considerably.
Sage,
You may not realize this, but a number of the entries in the adventure journal for this game are false. They even warn players about this in the "What is the Adventure Journal all about?" page. Apparently, SSI felt this was necessary to keep folks from reading ahead in the adventure journal - they wanted folks not to be able to trust everything they read.
The problem is, as far as I know, there never was a list indicating which entries were false and which were not. SSI specifically says that, "When you've finished the game, you can read through the whole journal and spot the false entries."
I've played through the game several times and never actually been given Journal Entry #38 during the course of the game. That combined with the fact that the villin really does turn out to be Tyranthraxus in the end tells me that #38 is a false clue and that it shouldn't muddy your waters at all.
just my two coppers worth. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2005 : 07:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
Sage,
You may not realize this, but a number of the entries in the adventure journal for this game are false. They even warn players about this in the "What is the Adventure Journal all about?" page. Apparently, SSI felt this was necessary to keep folks from reading ahead in the adventure journal - they wanted folks not to be able to trust everything they read.
The problem is, as far as I know, there never was a list indicating which entries were false and which were not. SSI specifically says that, "When you've finished the game, you can read through the whole journal and spot the false entries."
I've played through the game several times and never actually been given Journal Entry #38 during the course of the game. That combined with the fact that the villin really does turn out to be Tyranthraxus in the end tells me that #38 is a false clue and that it shouldn't muddy your waters at all.
just my two coppers worth.
As I stated at the beginning of my post, this was something I found through Google. It is not my work. However, you are correct about some of the journal entries. Still, I thought it was an interesting interpretation nonetheless...
It was merely an attempt to generate some possible alternate theories on the Seven Lost Gods.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2018 : 14:03:20
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Senior Scribe Mystery_Man,
Here is a great list of deities, and a dead god list as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Forgotten_Realms_deities#Dead_deities
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery_Man
What's the current body count?
Are they dead, dead? Or just dead, ready to be revived thru some epic act or worship dead? Where does thier remaining (if any) essence reside, some demiplane, other?
You're thoughts on this are valuable.
Edit: I figure its a good "Ask Ed" question, so I did.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Dead Gods
