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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 10:51:58
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Ed, this question comes from Eltargrim, over at the WotC boards -
quote:
I have been looking on materials for rules and laws in Cormyr. The most just country in Faerûn.
Can anybody help me out here?
Some basics about the court system would be nice.
Maybe some basic Laws in case of murder, kidnaping, steeling and so on.
If not about Cormyrian do any one have some Law system they use in diferent countries of FR please post them to.
I already suggested the possibility that some possible answers from you regarding these questions might be tied up by an NDA, still...
Also, Garen, if you feel you have anything to share here on this, I can relay it to El back at WotC.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 22 Oct 2005 10:53:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 16:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Vendui Hooded One!
Some years back, Elminster received a visitor to his tower in Shadowdale, presumably Volo, interested in drow lore. He met the sage near that little pool, talking to a drow female. The latter was introduced as one Susprina Arkhenneld, a former apprentice of Elminster. Well, I know of a wizard of some power going by the same surname and hailing from the city of Sshamath. Is this Calimar Arkhenneld in any way related to Susprina and does Ed know what became of her after her visit to Shadowdale?
I'd love to give her some more detail than just a name in my collection* ...
http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=420
... of all the dark elves of Faerûn.
(*Last updated in 8/2005.)
PS: That meeting happened in the introduction of The Drow of the Underdark, not that I write this, of course.
Some time last year, Ed offered up this info on Susprina:
quote:
Regarding Susprina Arkhenneld: we’ve not seen the last of this proud, wary, dangerous lady, but I can say she fled from the Underdark to the surface as a young woman, and is both a sorceress and has training as a mage, making her -- well, let’s say a ‘formidable opponent.’ I’ll add this much more: she’s passed 7th level in one of her classes, but I’ll not be more specific now because of some future plans.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 16:08:32
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Sage, I know one of the answers Ed is about to send me is about the laws of Secomber, for Verghityax. It was delayed because Ed had to do the laws of Crimmor for his recent DRAGON article. Comparing those two with the laws of Waterdeep (that Ed expanded for the 2nd Edition City of Splendors boxed set) should give a DM something to work with. For now. And that’s all I can say. For now (hint hint).
Thysl, Ed invented the abbreviated 2nd Ed stats line when he started passing chunks of draft text to Jeff Grubb for the FR Adventures hardcover. Without those abbreviations, he explained, we would have lost about three cities, just form the extra space writing everything out in full would have taken. Ed is, after all, a game designer who’s co-written at least four 3e sourceworks that I can think of, plus DRAGON articles, so he’s quite used to writing 3e “simple rules.” He HATES spending half a day or more doing a “full” stat block for a non-human character with, say, three classes plus modifications due to psionics or magic, because he’s always afraid he’ll miss something, and get one modifier wrong by a point. (But then, that just means the editors are needed for the first time.)
Zanan, I can confirm that Susprina and Calimar are related, but I’ll leave a proper reply to Ed. Who is busier than I’ve ever seen him right now.
love,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 16:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Sage, I know one of the answers Ed is about to send me is about the laws of Secomber, for Verghityax. It was delayed because Ed had to do the laws of Crimmor for his recent DRAGON article. Comparing those two with the laws of Waterdeep (that Ed expanded for the 2nd Edition City of Splendors boxed set) should give a DM something to work with. For now. And that’s all I can say. For now (hint hint).
My thanks to Ed, once again... and to you as well THO for such a speedy reply  .
I'll pass the info along to El at WotC.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 18:20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Thysl, Ed invented the abbreviated 2nd Ed stats line when he started passing chunks of draft text to Jeff Grubb for the FR Adventures hardcover. Without those abbreviations, he explained, we would have lost about three cities, just form the extra space writing everything out in full would have taken. Ed is, after all, a game designer who’s co-written at least four 3e sourceworks that I can think of, plus DRAGON articles, so he’s quite used to writing 3e “simple rules.” He HATES spending half a day or more doing a “full” stat block for a non-human character with, say, three classes plus modifications due to psionics or magic, because he’s always afraid he’ll miss something, and get one modifier wrong by a point. (But then, that just means the editors are needed for the first time.)
I didn't realize that Ed was the originator of the abbreviated stat blocks... I've always preferred those, though. It provides more wiggle room for DMs, allowing them to tweak the NPCs as necessary for their purposes.
And, as I pointed out in a (fruitless) argument on a non-Realms forum, in the absence of full and complete official crunch, anything that conforms to what is known is thus valid. (The person I was arguing with was of the opinion that in the absence of official crunch, nothing, even if it conforms fully to what is known, is correct. Even if the positioning of something has no bearing whatsoever on game balance, if it's not officially stated where it goes, it's all wrong to him.) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 20:31:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Okay, that sort of problem always arises from a "character set" mismatch between browser and site. I wonder if it was my end? Or at Candlekeep? Or in the aether between?
This last post (Ed's Ammath clan reply) is okay. isn't it? Both posts displayed just fine on my machine, while posting.
love,
THO
Well met, M'lady.
On neither the antiquated Dell OptiPlex GX110 I am currently using nor on the barely obsolete Mac G4 I favor do the line breaks in your posts appear when I save them to disk. Unless you double-shift (do I date myself?) your posts sometimes save as continuous blocks of text for me. This sometimes creates some eccentric contexts, although justifying the text and changing the text size a couple of times usually reveals where the breaks should occur. This is not unique to your posts, nor unique to Candlekeep -- it happens elsewhere in cyberspace. Personally, I blame the problem on gremlins. Or Bill Gates. Same diff....
"Character set" problems can be avoided by having 955 fonts on one's computer and a powerful word processor. That is not, however, a solution I recommend to most people. Comparatively few people have need of Tsolyani, Dethek, Jurchen, and Ugaritic on the same machine. (Actually, I don't need Jurchen -- wasting five megs of disk space on that one is just a conspicuous consumptive thing. Tsolyani and Dethek have come in handy a few times, though. ) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2005 : 21:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Zanan, I can confirm that Susprina and Calimar are related, but I’ll leave a proper reply to Ed. Who is busier than I’ve ever seen him right now.
love,
THO
Thanks for the quick reply, Lady Herald. I'll bide my time then and wait until Ed finds a bit of breathing space. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 00:18:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Zanan, I can confirm that Susprina and Calimar are related, but I’ll leave a proper reply to Ed. Who is busier than I’ve ever seen him right now.
love,
THO
Thanks for the quick reply, Lady Herald. I'll bide my time then and wait until Ed finds a bit of breathing space.
Just a heads up, I used Susprina in my next laborers article but that doesn't come out till a month or two. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 02:53:24
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Hello, all. Ed makes reply to Verghityax in the matter of written legal codes for Baldur’s Gate and Secomber:
Yes, both have written legal codes. No, I can’t tell you a single thing about the one used in Baldur’s Gate (as I’ve said several times, NDAs apply here), but I’m quite free to talk about Secomber, so here we go:
The laws of Secomber are modeled on Waterdeep’s Code Legal (which can be found on pages 77 through 81 of the Campaign Guide booklet in the 2nd Edition City of Splendors boxed set), with the following modifications:
There are no “crimes against Lords” in Secomber.
All references to the “City” should of course change to Secomber. All references to “Magisters” change to “Rods of Justice” (“Rods” for short).
The ‘A through J’ sentences survive, with the following modifications: “light work in Castle compound” should be changed to “manual work at the direction of the presiding Rod of Justice” (this usually means repairing walls or bridges, filling in potholes and washouts on roads, mending roofs or chimneys of private citizens, shovelling or ploughing snow in winter, or - - the old fallback - - cutting, splitting, and stacking firewood) and the addition of another sentence: K: public flogging and then shackling (miscreant is stripped, chained in public, flogged, and then left chained until the next sunrise; citizens can ridicule miscreant, but face justice if they strike or cast hostile magic him or her in any way, and citizens are free to feed, tend, comfort, give medical aid, and try to warm miscreant with fires, cloaks, et cetera, but may not unchain him or her or entirely clothe him or her)
Rather than black-robed Magisters, Secomber has Rods of Justice as its judges. These are respected elders, nominated and voted into office for four-summer terms by the populace, and their numbers vary from six to nine (as illness and crime-load necessitate). A Rod can be dismissed by a majority vote of the other Rods, can resign freely, and can recuse themselves from specific cases if they have a personal interest in the outcome (though they can’t be COMPELLED to recuse themselves, even when a conflict of interest or bias is obvious). All cases are heard by juries of nine land-owners of Secomber, chosen randomly by a blindfolded local child (randomly chosen by any priest who’s handy, or failing that by the Rod) choosing name-bearing chits out of a cauldron (chits are discarded if they bear the name of someone who’s served on a jury within the previous year, and other chits drawn as replacements). All trials are public, and often serve as ‘turn out the idle folk in town’ entertainments. Accused parties are allowed to speak freely, though Rods can and do order them gagged if they spit obscenities or offer tirades or threats. Spellcasting in court (without express permission of the presiding Rod) is a severe crime; if done by an accused, they’ll be struck unconscious, bound and gagged, and justice will proceed with them left thus confined (with sentencing for their spellcasting added to whatever sentence they may be given for their crime). Attacking a Rod at any time is treated as both Aiding An Attack Upon Secomber AND Assault upon a Citizen, and the sentences for both will apply.
Trials are immediate (usually held within half a day), though Rods can order a stay of proceedings if there’s a wait to gain witnesses or evidence. Like Waterdeep’s Code Legal, these laws aren’t absolute rules, but guidelines; Rods and juries are completely free to determine guilt or innocence, or set any sentence they want if guilt is determined. Inability to pay fines or damages is mitigated by seizure of property and then E until work value satisfies court debt.
Here, then, is Secomber’s Code of Justice (which is VERY typical of local legal codes throughout the Heartlands, by the way):
GODSFROWNS (Crimes Against The Gods)
Aiding An Attack Upon Secomber (knowingly providing information or assistance to outlander parties desiring to damage or steal property from Secomber, foul any well or pond in Secomber, or attack or kidnap or mutilate or maim any citizen of Secomber): I and E, then H and C
Attacking Secomber (invading Secomber with intent to do murder, pillage, or set fires, and the act of deliberately poisoning or fouling any food, water or drinkable in Secomber, casting spells to cause building collapses or effects reasonably expected to cause multiple deaths, damage to city gates): A if observed in the act by a Rod or Watch member, otherwise B
Arson: B or E, then D (branding), then C
Defiling Holy Places or Temple Theft: I and E and J, often followed by C
Public Blasphemy: F (half a day, or overnight if trial held in the evening)
Rape: I then K, D, and F
Spellcasting In Court (except with express prior permission of a Rod): K and then F (a tenday) and H
Theft: H and I, then K
Tomb-Robbing: D, H, and I
Violation of any Edict: G and H (plus new trial if violation involves new offenses against Code)
DEATHSEEKINGS (Crimes That Seek Or Make Likely Death)
Assault upon a Citizen (citizens must own land, pay rent, or have resided in Secomber or within view of its walls for at least a season) Resulting In Injury: I and E or K
Assault upon an Outlander Resulting In Injury: I and/or G or H
Harmful Public Spellcasting (includes unleashing of magic items, damage to persons or property, or through fear or removal of support [chain holding sign up, bridge under mule’s hooves, etc.] causes immediate accident [e.g. spooked horse runs down street, spilling wagon or damaging wares on it, and perhaps runs into or tramples something or someone] or suicide [of a person who for example believes themselves afflicted with something they can’t undo, or a painful and inescapable condition, as a result of the magic; if all the magic does is reveal or cause them to reveal their own wrongdoing, a charge is usually brought but no conviction occurs]): H and I, plus G (tenday maximum) and then C (one full year)
Murder: B or K and C (if judged unintentional) or D (branding) if judged “justified” (defense of self, spouse, children) [note that killings done in attempts to prevent any crime in the code receive lesser sentences, typically H, or none at all - - and adventurers or mercenaries hired to defend Secomber or keep the peace cannot receive sentences higher than H; acquittals usual in cases of murder done to a someone who has just themselves publicly done murder, and then attacks person charged with a weapon]
DECEITS, MALICES, AND THREATENINGS (Lesser Crimes)
Bribery (includes Attempted Bribery): G, H, and J
Dealing In Stolen Goods: H and I (Rod’s estimation of value of stolen goods, in both cases)
Forgery of Currency or any Legal Document or Posted Notice: E or F and I
Fraud: D (branding), H, and I
Hampering Justice (refusing to testify, hiding from Watch, preventing Watch from entry or hampering their chasing someone or seizure of something): H and E
Impersonating a Rod of Justice, member of the Watch, or any Ordained Priest: C and H
Intimidation (includes what we would call blackmail): H and I, then K
Obstruction (parking a wagon or conveyance against any doorway or across any alley or route, so that it can’t easily be traversed): H and J, plus F (one full day and night) if city gate was blocked
Resisting Arrest: F (usually 1 day), then K or H (depending on physical condition of accused)
Vandalism: H and I, then K (usually only I if damage is to garden or is merely cosmetic)
So saith Ed. As for Scornubel and Iriaebor, he added: “I’ll get to them. When I can. Swords of Eveningstar is the priority right now.”
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - The Hooded One on 23 Oct 2005 02:55:01 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 12:30:04
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Hello. I have a few questions for Mr. Greenwood.
1)Could we hear some lore involving the Class known as Favored Souls in the Realms. How they relate to the gods, the clergies and the people of the realms?
2) You have left many plot hooks that have been picked up by others. Like the Seventh sister or the city of Shade. My question is what is your favourite plot hook that has been fleshed out? What has been the most surprising?
Thanks |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 14:30:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Hello. I have a few questions for Mr. Greenwood.
1)Could we hear some lore involving the Class known as Favored Souls in the Realms. How they relate to the gods, the clergies and the people of the realms?
2) You have left many plot hooks that have been picked up by others. Like the Seventh sister or the city of Shade. My question is what is your favourite plot hook that has been fleshed out? What has been the most surprising?
Thanks
Where are favored souls mentioned? I know next to nothing about them. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 15:00:30
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In the Minatures Handbook and Complete Divine. They are to Clerics what Sorcerers are to Wizards. They are spontanous casters who cast from the cleric list. They can't turn or turn spells into cure/inflict spells. But they gain fighters skills with the diety's divine weapon, elemental resistance, wings and DR. The last are alignment linked.
I hope that helps. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Verghityax
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2005 : 17:30:23
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Dear Ed, thank You for this extent reply on Secomber laws. It was very interesting  |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 01:36:57
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Well met again, all. Ed of the Greenwood replies to Jindael’s question about specific churches of Faerûn and their use (or not) of crypts for the dead (Kuje, this touches on some of your long-awaited rituals “wants,” too), and here’s Ed’s reply:
Hi. Lack of time and not wanting to tread on the toes of Realms fiction writers describing burials (as Elaine and I did in CITY OF SPLENDORS recently) keep me from delving into detailed burial or death-commemoration rituals, but let’s run down your list:
Chauntea: no crypts. Bodies aren’t cremated, but rather ploughed into fallow fields, to enrich the soil (some temples so treat bodies of the faithful only; and for priests, sites are marked and skulls retrieved later, for veneration; other temples don’t do this), such fields being left fallow for at least the same growing season as the burial takes place in, and preferably three seasons; in cities, the dead taken out to countryside; where fields can’t be spared, burials are done in orchards, woodlots, or forest
Helm: Embalming, buried in full, sealed (with pitch and other substances) stone casket, buried with weapons and holy symbols to prevent becoming undead spontaneously, but to preserve them for use as “guardians” if a priest of Helm needs to animate them “for a holy purpose” (this almost never occurs, as the animation is frowned upon, but would be done to create temple defenders if a mad ruler or breakdown of all law and order or arrival of an orc horde endangered the consecrated ground)
Kelemvor: no crypts, but in-ground burial, in simple muslin or “found cloth” (used clothing, such as deceased’s own cloak, tunic, and breeches, sewn together) shroud (with holy symbols to prevent spontaneous rising as undead) of faithful and of all “common dead” not brought to other clergy, or refused by other clergy. If disease, mummy rot, or other dnger to the living exists, bodies are sewn into a shroud (temples keep some “large bag” shrouds ready for this purpose) and burned in a pyre without delay. Intent is to “keep the dead dead” and return their bodies to the earth for “the Endless Cycle”
Lathander: no crypts. In solemn temple ritual, with loved ones present if they want to be, bodies are transformed into other organic substances at random (Will of Lathander ritual akin to the “wild” effects of a wand of wonder), for use (as compost or material components or raw building materials or whatever) in “new beginnings”
Lliira: no crypts. Dance of Death spell cast in a consecrated (bare-earth and private place shielded from public view, deep in temple grounds [often ringed by gardens] or in the cellar of an in-city temple) bower, that animates corpse to dance endlessly until it collapses, the various pieces continuing to try to move until all joints fail and what’s left is allowed to rot on site; many corpses may be dancing in the same bower at the same time; rotted remains cremated and the ashes cast into the air by dancing clergy of the goddess, while participating in certain festivals (most of the major ones, throughout the year)
Selune: no crypts or embalming. Naked skyburial (on high platform, to be picked clean and scattered by scavengers and storms) if far from sea, otherwise laid naked on a raft and set out to sea (released when well out from shore; land should be “just visible” on the horizon) in moonlit conditions, to “voyage at the Lady’s bidding”
Sharess: no crypts or embalming. Priests embrace the dead in a ‘last intimacy’ (that need not be more intimate than a kiss while the living cleric’s arms are wrapped around the corpse), and the corpses are then animated in a Firedance spell, to cavort in air above a pyre, which is then lit to consume them (so they dance as they crumble into ash, “dancing on air” no matter how much they’ve crumbled, rather than collapsing as a Dance of Death spell allows)
Tempus: Embalming, with blood and fluids being drawn off for use (with transforming spells) into oil for armor worn by others into battle; prepared corpses are borne into shared crypts on a “bed of swords” (swordblades held flat, between priests on either side of corpse, to form a horizontal latticework), and laid to rest on stone shelves, holding weapons (their own, whenever possible) if the body is intact enough to allow such holding, and with a stone graven with their name, death date, and abbreviated deeds (“Murtar, died 1273 DR. Warrior of skill, fought at Eskryn, 1211; Horn’s Call, 1214; Mornar’s Bridge, 1216; much armed service guarding Secomber; fell fighting orcs valiantly”); fragmentary bodies are placed with tablet and any salvaged weapons or relics (piece of helm or armor); crypts typically hold hundreds, and are guarded by armed priests day and night to “honour the Valiant Fallen”
Tymora: crypts for some, embalming for some, resurrection for some, cremation for some, dicing and rotting for some: “Last Gamble” ritual involves dice (cast by loved ones if they want to be part of this, otherwise by the Lady’s clergy) that determine fate of the deceased; in above list, “crypts” means full magical preservation spells and sealing in luxurious but small crypt (like a canopied bed made of stone); embalming means body is preserved by physical means rather than magic, and placed reverently in a shared crypt; resurrection means clergy (for free) use all the magic they can muster to restore the corpse to whole and hale life, under no obligation whatsoever to the church of Tymora; cremation means burning on a shared pyre; and “dicing and rotting” means bodies are chopped up and scattered in a charnel (compost) heap to rot down, and eventually be spread on farm fields
And there you have it. Individual temples vary, especially in the amount of time they keep bodies in “cold crypt” storage (deep in stone-lined or solid stone chambers, to slow decay and prevent rats or other scavengers getting at bodies) for possible resurrections (if requested by family, adventuring colleagues, or civil authorities investigating crimes.
So saith Ed. There you have it indeed. I knew about three of these from our Realmsplay, but the others are very interesting.
love to all,
THO |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 03:58:53
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Hey Ed & THO
One of my abiding passions in life (other than the Realms) is wine. I'm wondering whether the Realms has wine grape varieties identical to our world (i.e. shiraz, cabernet, chardonnay, etc.) or has solely unique varieties, or a mixture of the two?
Also, a while back Ed gave us some more dwarven words for 'stuff'. I'm wondering whether he'd be able to come up with dwarven words for the following:
fire/heat
forge
anvil
cloak/mantle
belt
boot(s)
horse
wings
fly (flight)
gauntlet(s)/gloves
They seem to be the most pressing of the 'gaps' in my lexicon. Thanks in advance.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 24 Oct 2005 03:59:51 |
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Thysl
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 06:31:12
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| I'm going to add an annendum to Mr. Krashos wine quiry: What fruits - if any - are commonly added to grape wine? Is mead in the Realms always 100% honey, or mixed with apple (cyser), ginger, orange (Ethiopian), etc? |
There are as many nights as days, and the one is just as long as the other in the year's course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word 'happy' would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.
--Carl Jung |
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thom
Seeker
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 19:41:17
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a great "Thank You!" for your timely reply to my tavern-crawling questions, oh gracious THO! And more thanks for answering things I hadn't even thought to consider. My group plans to check out several taverns of all stripes this weekend, and now I'll be ready to give them the low-down! I apologize for sounding pushy - I know that's Wooly's job! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 23:43:43
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Greetings again, Ed and the Lady Hooded One!
Today I'm curious about hurricanes in the Realms... I just came thru yet another one, and it got me to thinking about these storms in the Realms...
So, do parts of the Realms see hurricanes? What parts? How often? Do certain mages or priests get any kind of warning? Have been any particularly destructive ones? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 23:58:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Greetings again, Ed and the Lady Hooded One!
Today I'm curious about hurricanes in the Realms... I just came thru yet another one, and it got me to thinking about these storms in the Realms...
So, do parts of the Realms see hurricanes? What parts? How often? Do certain mages or priests get any kind of warning? Have been any particularly destructive ones?
And if Ed wants, he could add tornados to that. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 01:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Greetings again, Ed and the Lady Hooded One!
Today I'm curious about hurricanes in the Realms... I just came thru yet another one, and it got me to thinking about these storms in the Realms...
So, do parts of the Realms see hurricanes? What parts? How often? Do certain mages or priests get any kind of warning? Have been any particularly destructive ones?
And if Ed wants, he could add tornados to that. :)
Actually, I'd like to add on to this request as well.
I'd like to know about earthquakes in the Realms... Specifically, their occurences, any important or destructive quakes that have happened in the past which may not have been mentioned in the canon material?
I'm assuming there may have been the odd one which wasn't caused by geological instability...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Oct 2005 01:52:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 02:09:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, I'd like to add on to this request as well.
I'd like to know about earthquakes in the Realms... Specifically, their occurences, any important or destructive quakes that have happened in the past which may not have been mentioned in the canon material?
I'm assuming there may have been the odd one which wasn't caused by geological instability...
Some time last year, I asked Ed about seismic activity (I was at that time inspired by a Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser story). The answer I got then:
quote:
About seismic activity in the Realms: SHHHH! Holy Mystra, man, don’t you realize WotC editors read this forum?
By Her Sacred Silver Tears, don’t give them any MORE ideas for RSEs! I’ve spent years building this world, and am getting more than tired of seeing bits of it torn down! :} Couldn’t you bring up the pronounced lack of scenes of characters reading books, or playing games, instead? Tiddleywinks, even? :}
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 02:17:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some time last year, I asked Ed about seismic activity (I was at that time inspired by a Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser story). The answer I got then:
[quote]About seismic activity in the Realms: SHHHH! Holy Mystra, man, don’t you realize WotC editors read this forum?
By Her Sacred Silver Tears, don’t give them any MORE ideas for RSEs! I’ve spent years building this world, and am getting more than tired of seeing bits of it torn down! :} Couldn’t you bring up the pronounced lack of scenes of characters reading books, or playing games, instead? Tiddleywinks, even? :}
Yeah, I re-read any particular references just to be sure I hadn't missed anything from last year.
Still, that was a while ago, so perhaps Ed has had some time for new thinking on this.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Oct 2005 02:21:24 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 03:53:16
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Hi again, scribes. Ed replies to KnightErrantJR’s question: “In Elminster's Daughter you mentioned Noumea Cardellith's husband as needing to get an annulment to get remarried in his new faith, and in one of your recent answers you mention celibate priests. I was wondering what churches might have these particular rules in place, and if those strictures are faith wide, or only in place for the church in certain regions. For example, I have always thought that some monasteries of Ilmater might have oaths of celibacy, but not necessarily every cleric or monk of Ilmater would be celibate.”
Ed speaks about celibacy this time (and annulments tomorrow):
KnightErrantJR, you’re quite correct in thinking that celibacy and annulments are only required by certain high priests (or sects), and in no case that I’m aware of, are strict, Realms-wide requirements of any human faith.
The reverse, BTW, IS true: clergy of Sharess and Sune must have some sort of sexual contact with other clergy AND with lay worshippers (which double requirement almost certainly means that the sex will be with beings they aren’t married to, in at least one of those two cases).
Celibacy is practised (on the orders of high clergy) for two reasons: to increase dedication to the deity and do away with worldly obligations and distractions (Helm, Oghma, and Torm), and as a means of punishment through deprivation (Ilmater, Loviatar). Most faiths require celibacy only of clergy, though they may “decree” (as punishment or for initiation) periods of celibacy (a tenday, a month, a season, or even a full year) for specific lay worshippers. Clerical celibacy is also usually limited to specific time periods (as punishment, or while preparing oneself - - often with fasting - - or a task or visions from the god, or as part of a specific ritual) or place (while assigned to a hermitage or on a quest or journey, or while at a particular monastery). Individual priests may privately and personally dedicate themselves to the deity through celibacy (and hair shirts, and self-scourging, and other sacrifices), and this is usually respected by superiors when discovered, so long as it doesn’t impair their holy duties. Certain faiths (Loviatar, Malar) even invite self-wounding or mutilation by beasts that one offers onself to, and heal the priests who willingly undergo it (sometimes so they can undergo it again, soon) as part of worship.
What you WON’T find in the Realms (among sane clergy) is an attitude that speaks of the persons the priest is avoiding sexual contact with as “unclean” or “evil” or “unworthy.” A Faerûnian male priest never refrains from sex with women because “women are unclean,” or sex with other males because that’s “unnatural.” He refrains from sex because “the god wants it,” or “to make himself more worthy to receive the blessing of the god,” NOT because of the status of anyone else.
So saith Ed, who’ll return to discuss annulments next time.
love to all,
THO
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 04:20:38
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Thanks Ed, and I'll be looking forward to the next reply as well. Pretty much as I though. For example, a paladin of Torm that decides that he cannot be distracted from his duty to his god might take a vow of celibacy, but a cleric of Torm from the same temple might be married and have a mess of children of his own.
And thank you THO for relaying this particular missive from the Bearded One . . . I'm sorry to have you dwell on the the topic of celibacy for so long |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 21:04:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Westgate no longer regularly mints its own coins, but coinage of many lands is accepted there - - and valued as currency is in most places: by condition, metal (purity), size (amount of metal), and origin.
While Kuje's question might have been answered, Ed's reply prompted a follow-up question: The answer above implies that Westgate did have its own mint. For those od treasure troves buried everywhere in the Realms, what would those ancient Westgate coins look like and what would be their names (official/slang)? [The detail in LOI was good, but limited to that area only.]
While on the topic - and in no rush for an answer - it would be good to see a list of coins of the empires and kingdoms of yore. After all, with all these nosy adventurers digging up every trove that can be found, several of such would see the daylight again. Probably to be melted for their material value, but for some there could be a collectors value... |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 21:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some time last year, I asked Ed about seismic activity (I was at that time inspired by a Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser story). The answer I got then:
[quote]About seismic activity in the Realms: SHHHH! Holy Mystra, man, don’t you realize WotC editors read this forum?
By Her Sacred Silver Tears, don’t give them any MORE ideas for RSEs! I’ve spent years building this world, and am getting more than tired of seeing bits of it torn down! :} Couldn’t you bring up the pronounced lack of scenes of characters reading books, or playing games, instead? Tiddleywinks, even? :}
Yeah, I re-read any particular references just to be sure I hadn't missed anything from last year.
Still, that was a while ago, so perhaps Ed has had some time for new thinking on this.
From reading Underdark and related tomes, one could glean that there is much less tectonic activity in the Realms compared to Earth - although there is still enough morphing taking place... |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 01:14:40
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Hi again. Ed returns, as promised, to answer KnightErrantJR about annulments:
As for divorce, witnessed and recorded marriage, and annulments, I’ve posted here before, long ago, that in the Realms divorces and annulments are primarily important to nobles and land-heirs, to avoid messy battles over inheritances of property. So in Waterdeep, Amn, and Sembia, things are very “legal” and kept track of no matter what the faith of the persons involved. The faith of Waukeen fervently insists on such clear record-keeping, and in charging handsome temple fees for witnessing and recording everything. Note that they do NOT place any moral disapproval whatsoever on divorce or annulment, just a heavy financial price.
This is the general attitude towards such matters, across most faiths, although priesthoods tend to attract gossips and moral judgers, and specific high priests have from time to time (and continue to do so) spoken disapprovingly and put in place discouraging rules around such matters, to keep divorces and annulments to a minimum. Please remember that aside from clerics themselves, the Realms is largely free of monotheism; most individuals “believe in” all the gods and worship an array of “daily useful” gods, so churches don’t have much power to put behind forbidding a particular divorce or refusing a particular annulment (the parties involved can just go to another church, or to the Heralds if they want to avoid priests altogether; the actual legal force of a divorce or an annulment is a state rather than a religious one, vested in local bureaucrats or courtiers rather than in any priest - - except, of course, in the few communities where the church IS the state, such as monasteries situated outside any realm).
In general, persons seeking no-contest divorces or annulments can go to any faith or appropriate civic official, and the latter are usually cheaper and spread the news more widely.
The churches of Waukeen, Oghma, and Tyr are swift and efficient about such matters, and those of Torm (because it’s abandoning the stance of “being true” to one’s promises and pacts) and Bane (because it’s a chance to treat worshippers with some tyranny) are the most reluctant - - and will usually impose “holy tasks” in order to win their approval. The church of Sar welcomes divorce and annulment as “marks of loss,” and grants them freely and speedily.
Those of Sune and Sharess treat divorce and annulments as part of romantic nature to be dwelt with quietly and quickly so as to get back to the fun, and many faiths (Lliira, Loviatar, Milil) treat it as an excuse to make participants undergo some sort of penance that’s really just another offering of worship to the god (dance to collapse in a revel for Lliira, be chased and whipped by a priest while bare-backed for Loviatar, and compose a lament for the lost love or the parting itself for Milil).
So saith Ed. Great stuff, although I can quite understand his sighed comment to me: “Gods. They always want to know about the gods. Writing about the gods and faiths is an endless pit into which every last remaining second of my life could be tossed - - and still not answer half the questions, or settle many of the disputes, either.”
Hmmm. Sorta like life. Or the endless debates about the relative merits of Realms novels or their writers . . .
love to all,
THO
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 01:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Thysl
I'm going to add an annendum to Mr. Krashos wine quiry: What fruits - if any - are commonly added to grape wine? Is mead in the Realms always 100% honey, or mixed with apple (cyser), ginger, orange (Ethiopian), etc?
Wine, wine, wonderful wine!
My sub-query is: from what is drow "green wine" made? |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 01:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So saith Ed. Great stuff, although I can quite understand his sighed comment to me: “Gods. They always want to know about the gods. Writing about the gods and faiths is an endless pit into which every last remaining second of my life could be tossed - - and still not answer half the questions, or settle many of the disputes, either.”
Hmmm. Sorta like life. Or the endless debates about the relative merits of Realms novels or their writers . . .
love to all,
THO
I know I ask about them because it's a side of FR that has been sadly neglected. TSR wouldn't touch it and WOTC.... well who knows why they won't. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 01:38:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some time last year, I asked Ed about seismic activity (I was at that time inspired by a Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser story). The answer I got then:
[quote]About seismic activity in the Realms: SHHHH! Holy Mystra, man, don’t you realize WotC editors read this forum?
By Her Sacred Silver Tears, don’t give them any MORE ideas for RSEs! I’ve spent years building this world, and am getting more than tired of seeing bits of it torn down! :} Couldn’t you bring up the pronounced lack of scenes of characters reading books, or playing games, instead? Tiddleywinks, even? :}
Yeah, I re-read any particular references just to be sure I hadn't missed anything from last year.
Still, that was a while ago, so perhaps Ed has had some time for new thinking on this.
From reading Underdark and related tomes, one could glean that there is much less tectonic activity in the Realms compared to Earth - although there is still enough morphing taking place...
Indeed, that is true Mumadar.
Additionally, I also recall reading something about past Realms geologic activiy in some of the novels... the odd reference to earth-shaking as I remember it -- obviously not enough to warrant an "earthquake".
Still, I'd like to know what Ed has to say on this.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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