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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 02:41:46
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Hi!
When is "Moonrise over Myth Drannor" set?
How famous is Elminster of Shadowdale in Faerûn? |
Edited by - Faraer on 09 Aug 2005 02:44:49 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 03:58:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, all. Wooly: I understand. Sigh. How politically correct we’ve all become.
Now, Ed seeks to kill two birds with one stone, as the old saying goes, by tackling Erik Scott de Bie’s questions . . . and Arlenion’s question “Could you share a glimpse of the sort of intrigues that were in your campaign at one specific instant or another? I am more curious about the number of such plots and the organizations involved in them rather than the details of the plots.”
Erik, quickly: yes this has all been asked before, but that’s fine, and yes I was involved in some of the adventures Ed will be fictionally covering in the Knights trilogy, HOWEVER: see his reply below. 
Ed speaks:
...
Many thanks!
In my own campaigns, the players and their characters have been not at ALL alike. The nicest, kindest chaps end up as blood-thirsty destroyers, and the most shy, conservative type becomes an outspoken, flirt-with-everyone rake.
Such is the nature of the game in general, and the Realms in particular (with its versatility, per my comments in the General Discussion forum), I've found: it's rather liberating -- no matter what kind of character you want to play, you can make him/her come alive.
Cheers!
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 00:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
2. The Realms Unfolding: I kept a constant flow of “current events” (and rumors) flowing past my players’ ears, to make the Realms seem alive, to hand the players a rich selection of adventuring and roleplaying opportunities,.and to continually introduce new NPCs (that “cast of thousands” so many of my editors loved to hate).
Thanks for answering me. My previous campaigns have all been about combat more than role-playing and since I am starting a new campaign I hope to change that. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 01:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
2. The Realms Unfolding: I kept a constant flow of “current events” (and rumors) flowing past my players’ ears, to make the Realms seem alive, to hand the players a rich selection of adventuring and roleplaying opportunities,.and to continually introduce new NPCs (that “cast of thousands” so many of my editors loved to hate).
Thanks for answering me. My previous campaigns have all been about combat more than role-playing and since I am starting a new campaign I hope to change that.
Wooly's and my article for the Compendium might be of some use to you. You could use those as current events. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 10 Aug 2005 01:10:23 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 03:17:33
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Hi again, fellow scribes. Here’s the second half of Ed’s reply (the subplots examples), and words from him to Asgetrion, too.
As the Bearded Creator mentioned in his last post, he’s going to fall silent for a few days (though I’m guessing he’ll sneak one more reply to me, on the proverbial way out the door), travelling, and then of course promptly fall silent again for GenCon Indy (followed swiftly by the Canadian National Gaming Expo in Toronto). Ah, well, we can’t have him ALL to ourselves!
Here’s Ed:
Asgetrion, I’m glad you liked SILVERFALL. It was great to read your post and “hear” your sheer delight. That book was another of my “Eddie runs out of room to wind things up properly” learning process experiments, and I fretted at the editorial “baton-passing” restriction, too, that kept me having to hand the narrative on to the next Sister and not let the earlier ones stay in the picture - - but boy, did I have FUN writing it, and it sounds like you had fun reading it, too! (Lady Shar notwithstanding! Which reminds me: I was once invited to a convention in Hannover, and there met a local prostitute who wore black ankle-length cloaks, called herself “Lady Shar,” and was a big Realms fan who wanted to, ahem, “thank” me; too bad the tattered remnants of gentlemanship yet cling to me).
Ahem again.
[THO note: Aren’t you going to tell them all about the Ladies of Loviatar, at GenCon? THAT raised even my eyebrows, and when two of them kissed each other while whipping each other I thought that cop was going to, um, have a moment of extreme personal release! No? You’re not? Well, then, I’ll just have to go ahead and post the second bit of your answer from yesterday, that I so cruelly chopped off.  ]
For example, to select a time at random, let’s pick a particular play session not long after the Knights are settled in Shadowdale, and the senior Knights have foisted the lordship onto Mourngrym. (Cormyr hasn’t yet sent Shaerl Rowanmantle to Shadowdale.) A quick glance at my notes tells me the following subplots were unfolding at the beginning of that play session (which began with my players roleplaying a Knights’ council-of-war, in which they sat down together to decide what they wanted to do):
Three envoys to the Tower of Ashaba:
1. Merchant coster from Hillsfar wants free land to establish waystables with warehousing (walled compound), pointing out employment and tax income Shadowdale will get; Maalthiir intends to use it for spying, of course, subverting local youths and oldsters with drugs (but doesn’t know one of his envoys is a Zhent agent).
2. Envoy from the Church of Torm (sent from the temple in Tantras), asking for free dale land and perpetual immunity from taxes, in return for establishing a large temple on the granted land, and agreeing to provide therein shelter (with granaries), arms, and training in vigilance and war to all folk of Shadowdale, and establishing temple patrols to watch for attacking forces approaching Shadowdale. Will further offer to provide caravans with armed escorts from Shadowdale to next settlement on every route, if Mourngrym seems unwilling.
3. Envoy from the Crown of Cormyr to Mourngrym, asking permission to establish an official trade factor (agent) of Cormyr in the dale (office and residence), entirely at Cormyr’s own expense (staffed in part by War Wizards; envoys also War Wizards). Legitimate offer, but trading office would also become local spying base for Cormyr; envoys making same offer to Mistledale at same time.
Lanseril seeking senior druid dwelling somewhere nigh Semberholme, for guidance, training, and to share information about spreading monsters.
Individual merchants coming to town to buy some of the empty cottages of folk killed in the last Zhent attack, and establish themselves away from the feuds and expense of Sembia; are really sponsored spies of ambitious Sembian merchants seeking to establish way-caches for drugs, stolen goods, and kidnapped rivals well outside Sembia yet within reach of Sembia.
One of these (Imbur Taerazalan) works for the Gemfingers merchant cabal of Ordulin, who intend to covertly conquer the Dales one by one, establishing their own “shadow territories” that can be “sold off” to Sembia (surrendered to become officially part of Sembia, in return for large cash payments).
Jhessail trying to decipher the coded pages of the Dark Tome without Elminster discovering she has it (assisted by Islif and the Harper mage Aundas [a War Wizard spy], who are trying to keep her alive; some of the runes are magical traps, others are gates to strongholds all across the Realms, now disused and dangerous monster- and undead-roamed “dungeons”).
The cabal of local Shadowdale merchants running the mill (since the Knights uncovered and slew the Zhent agents who formerly ran it) have begun to die, one after another, under mysterious circumstances. The Knights are trying to protect them and discover who’s doing the killings. The Zhents, of course, but: by means of magic from afar? Agents hidden in Shadowdale or [planted years ago] among the folk of Shadowdale, attacking the merchants by stealth, when they can catch one alone? Or is one of the cabal of merchants doing the killings? [yes!] If so, just to gain control of the mill himself, or become the senior and dominant member if Mounrgrym “appoints” replacement merchants? [no] Or is the killer an undercover Zhent agent? [yes]
The mysterious “noble lady of Tethyr” who’s just arrived in town with large entourage and tried to rent the disused farm north of Fox Ridge for “a tenday of relaxation” (and came to Mourngrym’s attention because of her steward’s attempts to arrange this accommodation, and so got invited to evenfeast at the Tower so he could give her the once-over) isn’t a noble lady of Tethyr at all, but rather a noblewoman of Waterdeep AND a former flame of Mourngrym’s, sent here by her parents to learn if Mourngrym is the Amcathra who knows where the best friend of his youth [this lady’s oldest brother] hid the family magic before he died (he died in Mourngrym’s arms, while off on an “adventure”). She’ll try to seduce Mourngrym, and if she likes it in Shadowdale, ride the situation for all she’s worth, sending the information she gains back to her kin via her steward.
The visiting dancer Florin sought to seduce so as to get alone to (with Jhessail’s help) mind-ream, thinking her a Zhent agent, who turned out instead to be a doppelganger or some other sort of tentacled shapechanger (ere she got away), has openly returned to the dale with her troupe. But is this the “real” dancer, having nothing to do with the shapechanger? [yes] Or the shapechanger back again, for a rematch? [no: the shapechanger has already returned to Shadowdale as short-coin farmworker, and is watching the Knights from afar, awaiting the right chance to slay and impersonate a Tower guard. Shapechanger is an agent for Tharltan, the wizard of Saerloon who wants to take over Shadowdale, and has orders to slay and impersonate Mourngrym, and then begin manipulating the Knights, singly, into situations where they can be killed]. This “real” dancer is a spy for a Witch of Rashemen, and will flee the Knights in a suspicious manner (fearing they’ll discover her secret), perhaps leading them into the clutches of the Fang.
The Fang [band of six assassins who always work together] are lurking in Shadowdale, posing as painters and roofers (slate shingles; they do good work, are pricing themselves very cheaply, and so are winning work up and down the dale roads, fixing too-long-neglected cottages) as they await a good chance to fulfill their commission from Rauthur of the Cult of the Dragon to kill Florin Falconhand. [Remember: all magically protected against farscrying and thought-reading.] One of them will ask audience with Mourngrym, boldly trying to get a commission to work on the Tower of Ashaba - - really to see as much as he can of its layout, even if work offer rejected. Will try to befriend chambermaids, just to try to get an eventual ‘in’ at the Tower.
Jonczer of Scardale will make another appeal to Shadowdale to use the Knights to establish regular ‘swift and silent’ trade runs between the two dales. He wants to have a way to spirit his wealth out of the dale without trying to carry it himself, to have a reason for entry into the Tower of Ashaba, and (eventually) to frame the Knights for the murders he’s going to try to accomplish, to weaken all outlander agents in Scardale except the Zhents.
Phaerlarra [fat old Tower maidservant, suggested by Jhaele when the Knights first arrived] will make another play for Doust, hinting that she’s of noble birth (the Troehands are actually descended from two bastard royal heirs who married commoners, though a female Huntsilver did marry into the family much later) and her “family secrets” could enrich all of the Knights, if they learn everything. She knows she really has nothing to offer, but the royal connection (though not its precise nature) has always been a deep family secret, and she’d love to somehow get the Knights to track down the truth. Why can’t they see her true worth?
Merith’s investments in Sembia are turning sour - - and someone is trying to trace him through them! He’ll get the second “bad news” note this week, from a Harper telling him it was found after Dathjathra was found murdered, and her murderer was interrupted (but managed to escape) while busily copying out all of her missives! Who’s trying to track down elves investing in Sembian trade, and why?
Jhessail’s tracing spell will find just one thing out of all that was stolen from Jhaele’s office: stashed in a hollow tree at the east end of Fox Ridge is a single sheet of her parchment, rolled into a bone tube and with fresh writing on it (Jhaele’s stolen ink, but very recent writing - - and the ink and quills are gone, along with everything else, carried far beyond the range of Jhessail’s spell, well out of the dale), listing sixteen villagers [“the Mirrorman list”]. Why are these Dalefolk listed (what’s the link between them)? Who wrote the list, and why was it stashed in the tree? Who was intended to find and presumably act on it, and why? Questions for the Knights to ponder . . .
So saith Ed. Looking at this, I’d say he’s chosen a “quiet time” (in terms of subplots): relatively quiet probably because we Knights weren’t yet generating much in the way of subplots of our own, by pursuing our own interests and agendas. Once we started doing that, life became a whirlwind of “not enough time” and “let’s DO it!” and “Now - - strike now, before they - -” and Ed sitting there grinning while we took over and truly became the heroes, imposing our wills on the Realms rather than reacting to what he threw at us.
Ed probably chose this quiet moment purely for reasons of brevity.
Erik, can you see why this would make fascinating episodic soap opera but an “impossible” FR novel? Arlenion, these are rather simple subplots, so they should be readily adaptable for any campaign. I noticed none of them is one of Ed’s trademark “big, ongoing mysteries,” so be sure to concoct one of those, too.
love to all,
THO
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 10:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, fellow scribes. Here’s the second half of Ed’s reply (the subplots examples), and words from him to Asgetrion, too.
As the Bearded Creator mentioned in his last post, he’s going to fall silent for a few days (though I’m guessing he’ll sneak one more reply to me, on the proverbial way out the door), travelling, and then of course promptly fall silent again for GenCon Indy (followed swiftly by the Canadian National Gaming Expo in Toronto). Ah, well, we can’t have him ALL to ourselves!
Here’s Ed:
[...]
love to all,
THO
This is simple? I won`t even try to imagine what it`s like when Ed REALLY goes for it.
EDIT: To save scroll space, I've removed the majority of THO's quoted post.
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Aug 2005 14:30:42 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 14:36:26
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Fellow scribes, please note the changes I just made to Khorne's post above.
It is not necessary to quote a lengthy reply from Ed when your reply immediately follows it. This fills the scroll with repetitive chatter which can prove quite distracting for those reading this scroll. Keeping this practice in mind will help to keep this scroll neat and tidy.
Happy posting  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Aug 2005 14:38:37 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 15:27:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Fellow scribes, please note the changes I just made to Khorne's post above.
It is not necessary to quote a lengthy reply from Ed when your reply immediately follows it. This fills the scroll with repetitive chatter which can prove quite distracting for those reading this scroll. Keeping this practice in mind will help to keep this scroll neat and tidy.
Happy posting .
I hear and obey. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 19:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Awww, Wooly, you edited out the stirring library stuff before Ed (the librarian, remember?) could see it! (Sniff)  
I'm desolated . . .
love?
THO
I think I can avoid Wolly's wrath by justing posting "the stirring library stuff." As I recall, the climax of the post was something on the order of, "Fight on ye librarians! Defend us from the manxome villains. Be ye one with Giles and Cadderly and Ed in warding us from the foemen!" Or something to that effect.
I have a question regarding The Simbul's Synostrodweomer (sp?) Was that a player-researched spell originally? (Which leads to the related question of how many, if any, of the Seven Sisters were originally PCs?) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 00:45:41
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None of the Seven Sisters or Elminster or Khelben or anyone other than members of the Knights of Myth Drannor or the Company of Crazed Venturers (and not even some of them - Dove and Islif to name but two), were ever PCs. Ever.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 01:47:04
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Thank you for the plots, they were exactly what I was looking for!  |
Edited by - Arlenion on 11 Aug 2005 01:48:56 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 03:35:11
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Hello all. I bring Ed’s last reply for a couple of days (probably until Saturday night), this one only the beginnings of a reply to Jamallo Kreen about “the classics” of Torilian literature:
Ah, a truly wonderful question. And one that will take me some time to answer properly. I’ll begin with a proverbial “librarian’s answer.”
What’s considered “classic” literature varies widely from time to time (once Bulwer-Lytton and Kipling were both considered towering writers in the English canon; both have faded, poor old B-L to laughingstock status) and place to place (sf fans revere writers “mainstream” critics have never even heard of, or dismiss as genre hacks churning out that “spaceship robot raygun stuff,” and conversely, an sf fan who tackles a “serious,” critically-acclaimed mainstream book is often incredulous at the self-indulgent, largely plotless “writing about nothing” that the latter tome contains).
So remember, as my father used to triple pun: “One man’s Mede is another man’s poisson.” :}
This holds true in the Realms as in real life.
There are “popular” books of lasting appeal, popular books that are fads that fade, and books and writers esteemed on the Sword Coast north of the Calimshan - Tethyr border that are unknown around the Shining Sea, and vice versa.
With that said, it’s important to remember that sages’ histories are revered as journals of record, and witty or poetic prose is highly valued in fiction books, because “the power of the plain tale” (the good snappy story told in a real-world bar or at a party or around a campfire) is practised and polished daily (or rather nightly) by minstrels and bards in taverns and clubs and inns across Faerûn.
Yes, yes, Ed, get on with it (I hear you snarl :}).
Right. So bearing in mind that what I say here is dated the moment I say it, and that this is an incomplete answer largely valid only for the Heartlands, among “the wide weal” (i.e. I’m not restricting myself to readers of a particular faith, or class such as the nobility), I’ll begin by listing just a few of the most highly-regarded tomes:
SEVENTY STIRRING STORIES by Russtur Malivar (many editions, often retold and abridged; a compilation of tavern-tales of romance, monster-fighting, high adventure, and revenge from the Sword Coast North).
THE TARGE by Lady Sarandra Shaelewinter (several editions; the author’s name is a pseudonym for a now-dead noblewoman of Waterdeep; romantic, uplifting tales - - mainly intended for a female audience, but beloved by those who love romance and lovingly-described dalliance - - that all drive home moral points: good always gets its just reward, wickedness and folly are aptly “rewarded,” and so on; “improving” literature for young ladies, but rescued from being pedantic and dull by the romantic writing).
TAL TESSORAN, Or: A LIFE WELL LIVED by Roadrante Haltivur (scandalously explicit [yes, we would call it pornographic] and considered far too “naughty” for polite discussion and being read in public, either aloud or to oneself but where others can identify its title; female author now living in hiding under an assumed name after being badgered with offers of marriage and love affairs and priests offering to “redeem” her, to say nothing of men wanting to “properly chastise” her; a stirring epic of a devastatingly handsome, well-meaning swordsman-hero who wenches his way across Faerûn while defeating evil wizards and growling monsters; powerfully written and VERY popular, although most folk keep their copies hidden under their pillows for private reading; even if the sexual passages are skipped, the writing is colourful and the adventures dashing).
SHIELDS AFLAME: A HISTORY OF KINGS AND BATTLES OF THE NORTH by Murtrosz Ondibran (small, thick, often split in its bindings and put into a box or tied together with cord, to keep it all together; often reprinted in identical format to its original edition, by one printer in Athkatla who claims (on the flyleaf) to bring down a “dark curse” on anyone else who makes copies of it; the most authoritative and interestingly-written of many sagely histories of the Sword Coast North, much consulted in the way we would consult a “dictionary of royalty and battles.” Its brief entries are entertainingly written, and the book can serve in the way many religious texts are: as “dip into” reading, one or two entries per evening, for discussion or reflection or just day-dreaming.
ARAUNTRIL: LADY DEATH, LADY FLAME by Sarkoarvhan Dhurr (a tremendously-popular epic of a sword-wielding sorceress, telling the fictional career of a beautiful, wanton, evil-hearted, sharp-tongued wily lass who sleeps and tricks and boldly fights and acrobatically tumbles her way from lover to lover and fortune to fortune; neither explicit nor particularly leering, mentioning sex in a matter-of-fact or humorous way; very popular because Arauntril’s dupes and victims are caricatures of mankind everywhere, and she exploits their foibles in amusing ways that can win fresh guffaws when read aloud in kitchens to folk who’ve heard all the scenes before. Arauntril has a caustic wit - - which she uses on herself when she makes mistakes or does stupid things - - and the author, a mild-mannered and shy clerk of Tethyr, poured out all his frustrations at cruel and pompous masters and clients when depicting the men Arauntril bests. Someone else [anonymous] wrote a hard-to-find (and so very expensive) sequel, ARAUNTRIL SCOURGED, which does delve into the pornographic. On every page. Although Dhurr was very upset by its publication, he’s said to have loved it when he read it, and most folk who’ve managed to do so are unwilling to part with their copies: not only are its sex scenes highly memorable, it makes sharp and explicit comment on real rulers, realms, customs, and other writers, in ways dubbed “wincingly accurate” by Alaphondar of Cormyr).
These are by no means all of the “classics,” nor is my answer complete. I’ll try to return to this topic before GenCon, but if not, will revisit it later (no new hours are being poured into any given day of my life, I’m afraid).
Oh, and Arlenion: you’re very welcome. My pleasure. I forgot to mention one thing: all ambitious and / or adventurer NPCs should be generating subplots of their own, so you know what they’re up to while the PCs are busy (inevitably the PCs will find out about some of these, sometimes misinterpreting them and jumping in, with wild results).
So saith Ed. Who will return when he can; he’s one exhausted puppy right now, believe me.
love to all,
THO
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 13:24:14
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First a thank you to Ed for answering my question about his views on the level of magic in Faerun some pages back. Extremely helpful. :)
I've another question for Ed. This one regards the pace of cognitive/emotional/ego development for the elves of the Forgotten Realms.
The question is: How mature (i.e., in terms of reasoning ability, emotionally, and ego functioning) would a 20 year old elf be compared with a 20 year old human?
I realize there some variation according to subraces, but let's take your garden variety elf from Coarmanthyr as an example.
According to The Complete Book of Elves, youthful elves tend to behave impulsively, and elves will continue to behave childishly until approx. 65-75 years of age. That source also states that elves typically do not exceed 4 ft in height by that age. Then around the age of 75 they experience a adolescent growth spurt and reach a height of 5 to 5 1/2 feet.
So according to that core source a 20 year old elf would be comparatively 'delayed' in contrast with a 20 year old human. By this standard a 40 year old elf, for example, would be in an adult body but behave in a childlike manner compared with a human.
Yet in Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves, there is a section called "Teaching" which to me suggests that the rate at which elves mature in the Forgotten Realms may be more of a cultural matter. That source states that elves are regarded (by their elders) as children untl the age of 60, and that they are considered "impressionable" by their elders until the age of 50. Until around 50 the focus is almost entirely on education. At the age of 50 they may begin pursuing a profession.
But by the same token, they are are typically reading and writing before the age of 10. So according to that standard elves mature at least cognitively at a pace on par with humans. Whether they do so emotionally and in terms of their ability to control their impulses, and reflect before they act, etc., it does not say.
I'm wondering if the relatively 'sheltered' existence of an elf of Cormanthyr for the first six decades of life is mostly an elven cultural thing, and perhaps not as much matter of maturing at a slower rate biologically, or developing at a slower rate cognitively and emotionally as the Complete Book of Elves has it. By the standards of their longevity, the elves of Semberholme do not consider their kind to be adults until around 60 (? or at least finished with their basic education about the world and elven history and ready to pursue a sort of apprenticeship their chosen profession). But that is because they enjoy a far longer time in which to educate their young. Elves have a different standard, culturally, by which to measure wisdom. "Impressionable" has a rather different meaning for someone who lives for 900 years compared with someone with a lifespan of 90 years. Here "impressionable" is not equivalent to a forty year old elf thinking and behaving like a twelve year old human.
Apologies for writing such a lonwinded question. To restate: Is a 20 year old elf from Cormanthyr roughly on par with a 20 year old human in terms of his basic adult functioning, i.e., powers of logic and reasoning, emotional maturity, capacity for reflection, ability to control impulses, etc.? Or would that elf behave like a five year old human?
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 20:15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Erik, can you see why this would make fascinating episodic soap opera but an “impossible” FR novel? Arlenion, these are rather simple subplots, so they should be readily adaptable for any campaign. I noticed none of them is one of Ed’s trademark “big, ongoing mysteries,” so be sure to concoct one of those, too.
love to all,
THO
Oh aye. My head started to ache just reading it. Much like one of my own campaigns, but containing MUCH more.
My campaigns often turned into "intrigue for an hour or so, then kill everything in sight, damn the consequences!" fests -- much against my will, mind.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Scarabeus
Acolyte
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2005 : 04:43:24
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Hi Everyone! My first post on this forum. I don't usually like forums but this one is an amazing vault of knowledge wich is well worth the old dusty tome that gave at the entry gate.
Greetings mr Greenwood, I would like to have further details about the original spellsinger character class you made for the Realms.
Knowing about your fondness for music and the rich amount of details that you put in your work, none of the published spellsigner classes seem to be near of what you created. I once worked on a legendary Elven Spellsinger character class (a la Elfsong) but it does not seem to be the original spellsinger. I've read your post about spellsingers in 2004 and it stirred within me the desire to learn more. Code of Harpers, Deities & Demigods (Eilistraee), Wizard & Rogues and Races of Faerun have some bits of information as well as a Mintiper (sp?) article in Dragon Magazine. I'm wondering now, how does all of that fit together ?
Call you tell us more about how the original spellsingers used to cast spells, or spellsongs ?
I would also like to know more about the valantra life style and whereabouts. Thanks in advance. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 16:34:09
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Greetings, Ed and the Hooded One.
Someone (Tremaine) asked on another thread here at Candlekeep about a card game being played by Giogi Wyvernspur in The Wyvern's Spur novel, entitled Elemental Empire. I was wondering if Ed could shed some more light on what is involved in this game, and more importantly, what other Realms-specific board games, dice games and card games are played throughout the Realms. This is a particular area of interest to me as I often like to use such activities within my campaign (not only for the players, but also for those poor lonely guards and soldiers who have to while away the hours ) |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 13 Aug 2005 16:34:39 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 17:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Greetings, Ed and the Hooded One.
Someone (Tremaine) asked on another thread here at Candlekeep about a card game being played by Giogi Wyvernspur in The Wyvern's Spur novel, entitled Elemental Empire. I was wondering if Ed could shed some more light on what is involved in this game, and more importantly, what other Realms-specific board games, dice games and card games are played throughout the Realms. This is a particular area of interest to me as I often like to use such activities within my campaign (not only for the players, but also for those poor lonely guards and soldiers who have to while away the hours )
Aurora's catalog has some. Ed has also given us some in last years replies, which can be found in my sig. Ya'll have to do a find/search for them. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 17:31:31
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As I recall, the second edition boxed set Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting had some info on games. I can't recall if Elemental Empires was in there or not, though.
Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog also has some Realms games, though there's no real details on them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 20:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
None of the Seven Sisters or Elminster or Khelben or anyone other than members of the Knights of Myth Drannor or the Company of Crazed Venturers (and not even some of them - Dove and Islif to name but two), were ever PCs. Ever.
-- George Krashos
Thank you. A decades-old query has been answered!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 20:48:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello all. I bring Ed’s last reply for a couple of days (probably until Saturday night), this one only the beginnings of a reply to Jamallo Kreen about “the classics” of Torilian literature:
(snip)
There are “popular” books of lasting appeal, popular books that are fads that fade, and books and writers esteemed on the Sword Coast north of the Calimshan - Tethyr border that are unknown around the Shining Sea, and vice versa.
With that said, it’s important to remember that sages’ histories are revered as journals of record, and witty or poetic prose is highly valued in fiction books, because “the power of the plain tale” (the good snappy story told in a real-world bar or at a party or around a campfire) is practised and polished daily (or rather nightly) by minstrels and bards in taverns and clubs and inns across Faerûn.
Yes, yes, Ed, get on with it (I hear you snarl :}).
Right. So bearing in mind that what I say here is dated the moment I say it, and that this is an incomplete answer largely valid only for the Heartlands, among “the wide weal” (i.e. I’m not restricting myself to readers of a particular faith, or class such as the nobility), I’ll begin by listing just a few of the most highly-regarded tomes:
(snip)
THE TARGE by Lady Sarandra Shaelewinter (several editions; the author’s name is a pseudonym for a now-dead noblewoman of Waterdeep...).
TAL TESSORAN, Or: A LIFE WELL LIVED by Roadrante Haltivur
(snip)
So saith Ed. Who will return when he can; he’s one exhausted puppy right now, believe me.
love to all,
THO
Oh, thank you both! I think I could have a lot of fun running a couple of side adventures with a bard or two trying to track down the identities of those two authors! 
Are there any works of "natural philosophy" or of "geography" (Torilography?) of the Aristotelian, Ptolemic, or Mandevillian variety which are consdidered essential reading for educated persons?
Please reveal more of Toril's literature, Ed. Come on you know you want to give bookmen (bookfolk?) something to explore. The realm of the mind is far more vast than the Realms themselves.
(Personally, I am having a great time watching Faerun's knowledge of the world grow. This is the time which corresponds to the writings of Marco Polo and of the Conquistadors, and the opportunities for exploration on land, sea, sky and in the mind are very exciting. I'm loving it. And to pun off of your post, I'm certain that planes tales which will be regarded as classics in the future are being written in Faerun now, too.)
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 22:09:02
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Ed Greenwood:
I obtained a copy of The City of Splendors earlier today. Although I had read the WOTC interview where it was mentioned that the novel ran close to 500 pages, actually holding it in my hands and seeing that it's 476 pages of story is wonderful. I know you had to cut 14,000 words. However, did you have to work any additional magic on Peter Archer to keep further cuts being made? I'm so used to the standard Realms book being just a bit over 300 pages, I figure some spell had to be employed. Regardless, thanks to you and Elaine for what I'm sure is about to be a wonderful read.
SiriusBlack
Oh and P.S. ...that was a very kind dedication for you and Elaine to make. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 14 Aug 2005 00:41:19 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2005 : 23:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
THE TARGE by Lady Sarandra Shaelewinter (several editions; the author’s name is a pseudonym for a now-dead noblewoman of Waterdeep; romantic, uplifting tales - - mainly intended for a female audience, but beloved by those who love romance and lovingly-described dalliance - - that all drive home moral points: good always gets its just reward, wickedness and folly are aptly “rewarded,” and so on; “improving” literature for young ladies, but rescued from being pedantic and dull by the romantic writing).
Sarandra Shaelewinter: the Jane Austen of the Realms(?). Or maybe one of the Brontes.
Couldn't resist.
And have you ever written snippets of these, Ed? Do you think Wizards would be interested? Otherwise, this looks like a job for some of the more creative scholars here at the Keep. . . . . .
Seriously though -- this is an awesome list, one which I look forward to the possibility of expansion when Ed gets the free time (bwahahahahaha!).
Also: quite interested to hear the card game answer! It may be quite relevant to something in my RoE story (assuming it doesn't get edited out! )
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 00:47:26
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Oh and P.S. ...that was a very kind dedication for you and Elaine to make.
Elaine hinted about this last week.... I wanna know what it says! :( I probably won't be able to find my copy till a week or two from now. :( |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 01:32:28
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Hello again, fellow scribes. Ed returns (briefly, before trundling off to GenCon and so falling temporarily e-silent again) with a reply to Lord Rad:
Sorry, but I’m afraid Elemental Empires is Jeff Grubb’s creation, and only he and his bride and co-writer Kate Novak know its details. I can say more about other games of the Realms, and indeed have, both in Volo’s Guides (for example, pages 161 and 162 of the Cormyr guide outline detail Toss The Dagger, Traitors’ Heads, and Swords and Shields), divers works of fiction, and here at Candlekeep (Old Wizard is described on page 37 of the 04 Questions for Eddie thread, and Strikedragon, aka Battles, on page 38).
Other writers have also detailed games in the Realms (Talis, also found in DRAGONLANCE, is discussed on page 25 of the 04 Questions for Eddie thread, and the dice game “Thabort” is detailed on page 38 of the Shadowdale booklet of the 1993 Realms Campaign Setting box, just to name two), and we know of chess and several similar abstract battle-strategy board games being played in the Realms from my Cormyr co-written novels and other Realms fiction sources. The problem is that many games (such as Shirestone, the halfling game I created) were submitted to, and accepted by, TSR or Wizards, and are owned by them: if they don’t choose to publish them (yet or ever), I’m not free to publish them myself anywhere. However, the games already in print should provide you with enough to waste the time of bored guards and warriors. :}
So saith Ed. Whom I notice didn’t even mention some of the more salacious games we Knights used to play (myself, I think the male Knights were just looking for excuses to get female Knights to doff garments; not that we minded).
Re. the dedication, Kuje: I hope you’ll be pleased when you read it. I know I was. I can quote it if you really want me to, but I wanted to leave it for scribes to discover for themselves. However: your call on this, scribes assembled.
Jamallo, Ed’s sending me more “classic books” descriptions before he leaves for GenCon. Watch this thread.
SiriusBlack, I’ve sent your post to Ed for his reply. I do know the contract asked for a very large wordcount (probably 150,000) but that it was unofficially agreed that it would end up much shorter. I’ve heard that Ed and Elaine between them probably cut 60,000 words or more as they were writing it (chopping entire subplots and characters) - - but then, if they hadn’t, I can envisage us all sitting here waiting, a year or more hence, for something that had grown to six 500-page volumes, with indexes in each.
And no, that wouldn't be a Bad Thing. However, the heart conditions of WotC editors by then would be.
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 01:41:59
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| Nay, I can wait. :) Or someone, coughcouchsiriuscoughcough, could PM it to me. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 01:47:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
SiriusBlack, I’ve sent your post to Ed for his reply. I do know the contract asked for a very large wordcount (probably 150,000) but that it was unofficially agreed that it would end up much shorter. I’ve heard that Ed and Elaine between them probably cut 60,000 words or more as they were writing it (chopping entire subplots and characters) - - but then, if they hadn’t, I can envisage us all sitting here waiting, a year or more hence, for something that had grown to six 500-page volumes, with indexes in each.
And no, that wouldn't be a Bad Thing. However, the heart conditions of WotC editors by then would be.
love to all,
THO
Understood THO...understood. Thank you for passing along the question to EG. And take a bow for your own acknowledgement in the aforementioned dedication. |
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Nighthawk08
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 05:43:24
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| Here I was, sitting at work thinking about any new campaign ideas I could use, when something suddenly hit me. What would happen if two different types of Lycanthropes had a child. Lets just choose a Werebear father and Weretiger mother. Would the child be a freak even to lycanthropes because he/she can assume either form upon his choosing? Or would it just be a 50% chance he would get one or the other? Any help from the great Ed or anyone else that checks this thread would be much appreciated |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 06:16:07
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Just wanted to toss one more card game into the mix because it's always been a favorite of mine: kholiast, introduced in Elves of Evermeet. It's described as "involves a deck of more than 1000 cards, a variable sized hand based upon a throw of dice, and a point counting system that would drive even the most devoted Candlekeep scholar completely mad." (p. 21)
I've always envisioned it played by ten or twelve elves clustered in a ring calling out wagers, waving cards in the air, and tossing dice all over the place. Sort of like a modern-day craps table ambiance (severely amped) as opposed to more sedate card games like poker or blackjack. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 11:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Nay, I can wait. :) Or someone, coughcouchsiriuscoughcough, could PM it to me. :)
Well met
  I have yet to receive this tome. As if the excitment of the story isn't enough, i'm simply beside myself with the anticipation |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 11:24:50
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Wow thanks for the quick response Ed\THO. Does this mean you've pretty much cleared up your backlog of questions?
Thanks for the information, i'll certainly look to apply some of this to my campaign. It's a shame that WotC are holding onto that material, perhaps one day we'll see it though.
Ed, are you still in touch with Jeff Grubb? It would be great to see him stop by at Candlekeep.' I'm sure i'm not the only one who would have questions for him. I still hold his (and Kate's) novels up there as some of my favorite FR novels |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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